Does God exist if most people go to hell?

[genesis2kx1]

Matthew 7 basically says that most people will end up in hell. Could that be true and there still be a good God?

Even though we all can choose whether we're going to be one of the few that end up in heaven, isn't the fact that most people end up in hell a strong argument against the existence of a good God? Let's say that 10% accept Christ and end up in heaven. What does it say about a God who would create 9 people who end up in hell (even though it was their choice or, rather, their lack of choice in Jesus) for every 1 that goes to heaven? If you had 10 sons and made some rules for their lives which you foreknew that only 1 would obey, and you tortured the other 9 for all eternity for failing your test, what does that make you? A loving father? Hardly.

Please explain the concept of a minority in heaven, because this is truly hurting my faith.

Thank you,
genesis2kx1

 

[Deavonreye]

I've come to realize that it doesn't matter what we see as "good" or "not good". God does his will only. Our opinions don't really matter, just obedience and ardent worship. His actions, his requirements superscede whether or not a human wants to . . . or even CAN . . . believe in it all. It matters not. Those who will believe are [I suppose] "good enough".

 

[elijah23]

Matthew 7 basically says that most people will end up in hell. Could that be true and there still be a good God?

Even though we all can choose whether we're going to be one of the few that end up in heaven, isn't the fact that most people end up in hell a strong argument against the existence of a good God? Let's say that 10% accept Christ and end up in heaven. What does it say about a God who would create 9 people who end up in hell (even though it was their choice or, rather, their lack of choice in Jesus) for every 1 that goes to heaven? If you had 10 sons and made some rules for their lives which you foreknew that only 1 would obey, and you tortured the other 9 for all eternity for failing your test, what does that make you? A loving father? Hardly.

Please explain the concept of a minority in heaven, because this is truly hurting my faith.

Thank you,
genesis2kx1

I don’t think hell is what most people think it is.

I think hell is a punishment we receive here and now when we sin.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Matthew 7 basically says that most people will end up in hell. Could that be true and there still be a good God?

For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Looks like, if most don't' make it, they ended up that way on their own. Sounds like the one with the hard heart isn't God.

THIS IS, of course, assuming that the verses are talking about salvation and not simply happiness.

 

[Igor]

...What does it say about a God who would create 9 people who end up in hell (even though it was their choice or, rather, their lack of choice in Jesus) for every 1 that goes to heaven? If you had 10 sons and made some rules for their lives which you foreknew that only 1 would obey, and you tortured the other 9 for all eternity for failing your test, what does that make you? A loving father? Hardly...

Well, as a parent, if you set some rules and tell your 10 children that if they disobey the rules they will be punished, and if they obey the rules they will be rewarded, does that make you a bad parent? I don't think so. If 9 out of the 10 disobey and get punished, and the one who obeyed gets rewarded, does that make you a bad parent? No! It makes you a parent who believes in justice and fairness. The kids knew the rules and 9 of them decided on their own to disobey them. That is their responsibility and changing the rules just so they don't have to be punished for their misbehavior is only being unfair and teaches all of them that there is no real reason to obey anything.

Or should you not make the rule just because you know there is a 90% chance they will disobey it? (I know, I know, there are parents who do this. But I feel sorry for them and for the kind of kids they will raise with this attitude!)

Many people today seem to think of God as the equivalent of love. They forget that God is also power and justice, not only love. Just because we would prefer to only see His love doesn't mean that He is under any obligation to put his other aspects to rest. Also, don't forget while you are condemning God for not showing love the way you think He should, that He gave us a tremendous opportunity in the forgiveness offered to us through Jesus. The only thing we have to do is accept it, and the just payment for our sins (hell) is gone. In reality, accepting the payment that Jesus made is the only rule we have to obey to avoid the punishment of hell. The old Testament law, and all the long lists of do's and don'ts of church tradition may be good things to follow, but have nothing to do with staying out of hell because under those standards, 100% of us would go to hell, not 90%!

What more love could we expect than this? If someone chooses to reject Christ, I honestly can't think of anything God could offer that would satisfy them. What could be an easier way to pay for a lifetime of sin then to simply accept the payment already made for us through Jesus? Is God really asking us to do something that is so impossible for 90% of us to do that it is easier to choose to go to hell? No, He's not!

 

[Deavonreye]

For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Looks like, if most don't' make it, they ended up that way on their own. Sounds like the one with the hard heart isn't God.

THIS IS, of course, assuming that the verses are talking about salvation and not simply happiness.

I don't think it is as easy as this. I know that MANY [including myself] asked to receive, sought for years, knocked on that figurative door that never opened, . . . and found nothing for all their attempts. Many of those "many" can feel confident in the "god doesn't exist" because of this.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I don't think it is as easy as this. I know that MANY [including myself] asked to receive, sought for years, knocked on that figurative door that never opened, . . . and found nothing for all their attempts. Many of those "many" can feel confident in the "god doesn't exist" because of this.

It might be a topic for another thread, but I'd like to hear that story in great detail. God gave me just what I prayed for the first time I prayed as a child. I've never (that I know of) got just what I wanted, at least not that I could see, ever since.

But I have received comfort, I have received patience, and I have felt loved and connected to Him

Now, as you have probably read, I have been somewhat confused over my sister's situation. I openly admit that.

 

[stovebolts]

I don't think it is as easy as this. I know that MANY [including myself] asked to receive, sought for years, knocked on that figurative door that never opened, . . . and found nothing for all their attempts. Many of those "many" can feel confident in the "god doesn't exist" because of this.

I understand that. Really, I do.

But I also understand that sometimes we seek the right things for the wrong motives, and sometimes we seek the wrong things with the right motives.

If we want to talk about Hell in the here and now, then I think we've all lived in a piece of hell at one time or another. As humans, we're fragile and things can change in a matter of moments without warning that can, at times crush us. But sometimes it's not about what we go through, it's how we respond. Do we lash out, or do we cry out? To we cuss, or do we praise?

Just what is it that we want anyway? What are we seeking after? Is it possible that for some, they are seeking the afterlife so intently that they bring hell on earth because they neglect earthly things? Or is it possible that at times we seek pleasure so richly on this earth, we sell out on what the afterlife has to offer?

The questions could go on and on an on, but the sad reality is that many people are already living in a world of hell, and it only continues after they die. And God is still a loving God, full of mercy and grace.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Matthew 7 basically says that most people will end up in hell. Could that be true and there still be a good God?

Even though we all can choose whether we're going to be one of the few that end up in heaven, isn't the fact that most people end up in hell a strong argument against the existence of a good God? Let's say that 10% accept Christ and end up in heaven. What does it say about a God who would create 9 people who end up in hell (even though it was their choice or, rather, their lack of choice in Jesus) for every 1 that goes to heaven? If you had 10 sons and made some rules for their lives which you foreknew that only 1 would obey, and you tortured the other 9 for all eternity for failing your test, what does that make you? A loving father? Hardly.

Please explain the concept of a minority in heaven, because this is truly hurting my faith.

Thank you,
genesis2kx1

There's scripture verses that claim that God does not want anyone to perish, but at the same time God calls people in His own time. It may be that God does not want everyone saved now, because the true mystery that even most of the church does not know or understand is that the church are the called ones to rule and reign with Christ and to teach his Law when He comes back to earth to take the Davidic throne. The salvation of the masses comes later as all nations do obedience to Him.

When Jesus said perish, he meant that. So perish the thought that people suffer forever and ever. They (including Satan and His angels) perish in a lake of fire at the end times, and not before everyone has been given a chance. In other words, all evil and all recollection of it will be destroyed for the new heavens and new earth--- then all the suffering known now will cease to exist. Frankly, I cannot find anything more merciful.

 

[Igor]

For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Looks like, if most don't' make it, they ended up that way on their own. Sounds like the one with the hard heart isn't God.

THIS IS, of course, assuming that the verses are talking about salvation and not simply happiness.

I don't think it is as easy as this. I know that MANY [including myself] asked to receive, sought for years, knocked on that figurative door that never opened, . . . and found nothing for all their attempts. Many of those "many" can feel confident in the "god doesn't exist" because of this.

I'm confused by this Deavonreye. The verse Pizzaguy is talking about does refer to salvation. How can you know that "many", including yourself, knocked and did not find the door (of salvation) opened to you unless you have already died and found yourself in hell despite having accepted that open door? Or did you assume this verse meant that everything you asked God for will be given to you automatically and without exception, instead of knowing it was referring to salvation from sin? If you thought it meant God would do everything you asked (or even close to that), I can see why you were disappointed. We have never been told in scripture that God will do everything we ask for.

 

[Deavonreye]

No Igor. Not "everthing I wanted". I was wanting to have the experience of others I saw who went before me and somehow were able to find a connection. I've since realized what that "connection" was, . . . but at that time in my life, I was after the experience seen in others who were passionate, eager to worship god, etc. I prayed for such things and experienced a black hole of nothingness.

However, that's for another thread. What I'm just trying to point out is that there's a reason why many find it hard to follow the christian concept, for various reasons, and why there are those who see no purpose to believe in god's existence.

 

[Cornelius]

For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
Looks like, if most don't' make it, they ended up that way on their own. Sounds like the one with the hard heart isn't God.

THIS IS, of course, assuming that the verses are talking about salvation and not simply happiness.

The answer of course is in the answer to the question , is the Bible about salvation or happiness

 

[Cornelius]

I've come to realize that it doesn't matter what we see as "good" or "not good". God does his will only. Our opinions don't really matter, just obedience and ardent worship. His actions, his requirements superscede whether or not a human wants to . . . or even CAN . . . believe in it all. It matters not. Those who will believe are [I suppose] "good enough".

if it really had to depend on being "good enough" it would be terrible LOL, We would all fail. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isa 64:6

I am so glad that Jesus became my substitute and that this whole salvation thing and being righteous "enough" is in His hands. The Bible says I died, I was crucified with Him on the cross and now , since I am dead, I really have nothing to do with the process of getting saved. He is doing that in me. He is the one who started this good work in me and He is the one who will finish it too ! I believe He is in me and I know I am in Him and He is wearing me like a coat ! ...and I put Him on like a garment too !He wills in me to will and do according to His good pleasure ! so even that is out of my hands (thank God ! )

 

[Deavonreye]

if it really had to depend on being "good enough" it would be terrible LOL, We would all fail. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isa 64:6

Well, I hate to be "blasphemous", but I disagree with whomever wrote that verse. We aren't "all good", but we are NOT "all bad" either. Many things we, as humans, do are FAR better than "filthy rags". Self loathing is the issue with the writer of Isaiah, . . . not me.

 

[Ashua]

You'd have an easier time questioning if God is just more than you would that God is loving.

If I were God I would destroy this depraved world without batting an eye. Justice is getting what you deserve. Mercy is not getting what you deserve. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore all deserve death. God has every right and then some to destroy everyone. Sometimes I think he should, me included.

 

[Deavonreye]

You'd have an easier time questioning if God is just more than you would that God is loving.

If I were God I would destroy this depraved world without batting an eye. Justice is getting what you deserve. Mercy is not getting what you deserve. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore all deserve death. God has every right and then some to destroy everyone. Sometimes I think he should, me included.

God has done things as awful as us, it is just that, because he has all the power, and wants things done his way, those who don't are "sinners". True, sometimes people do awful things, but people also have been known to do wonderful things. The problem with some people is that they insist upon this uber dualism and that just isn't the case.

 

[Igor]

No Igor. Not "everthing I wanted". I was wanting to have the experience of others I saw who went before me and somehow were able to find a connection. I've since realized what that "connection" was, . . . but at that time in my life, I was after the experience seen in others who were passionate, eager to worship god, etc. I prayed for such things and experienced a black hole of nothingness.

However, that's for another thread. What I'm just trying to point out is that there's a reason why many find it hard to follow the christian concept, for various reasons, and why there are those who see no purpose to believe in god's existence.

Looking back on my post, I realize where I said "everything I wanted" is a little too black and white. You are right about that. I can relate to what you are saying as well. There have been times that I really wanted God to do something for me. One particular time on my mind right now, it was something that scripture clearly said is God's will. I prayed for it. I prayed for it with groups of other Christians. I asked other Christians to pray for it as well. I got counseling, and every Christian counselor I talked with agreed that this was something that God would want for me. Yet it never happened. I didn't understand why it never happened then. Then I just had to have faith that God knew what he was doing, and leave it at that. Ashamedly, I have to admit my faith was weakend in the situation and I had a lot of doubts at the time. But I managed to hang on anyway because the alternative is worse!

As it turned out, I didn't give up on God just because I didn't get the answer to my prayer, and Satan was really, really mad about that. He (Satan) literally let me know that too. Looking back, I know now that the circumstances were caused by Satan, not by God, to try to take me away from God. I didn't let that happen. Now, my prayer still has not been answered in the way I thought it should have been, but God has used the experience in my life to help some others through their struggles, resulting in evangelism being accomplished. So good has come out of it in the end.

I've also prayed at times for God to give me the same exciting experiences as others seemed to be having, and like you, didn't get them. (Not saying I've never had them. I have. But not really when I prayed for them.) Once again, I just had to rely on faith that God knew what he was doing. Ironically, looking back to my early Christian life when I saw others' experiences (and prayed for that myself), I see some of those who were having the "experiences" were just faking it so they could fit in and be looked up to by other Christians. So when God didn't grant that request, it turns out he knew what he was doing after all. It just took a few decades for circumstances to come about that let me see that. Sometimes we never get to see God's reasons, but that doesn't mean that they are not good reasons or that God is not real!

But does God exist, despite the fact that most people will go to hell? Absolutely. Once again, the verse about knocking and the door being opened is speaking of the door to salvation from hell, not about God granting our requests in this life. Those who reject that salvation will end up in hell, but that is not what God wants. It's an unfortunate consequence brought on by those who reject it, not by God.

 

[Deavonreye]

Here's the thing. No one in their right mind would reject something that would place them in a horrible situation, on purpose. So, the idea that I "reject god" is incorrect, and I suspect that many people are in the same boat as me. Others, in another country, don't "reject god" because they are caught up in the religion of their country because that's how the game is played.

I believe I know what you're talking about, the thing that you thought "god wanted to give you, but didn't receive it". I had many times in my life when I attempted to receive it so I could "go to the next level". Each time, there was nothing but the same silence that I experienced in prayer and bible reading.

 

[Ashua]

God has done things as awful as us, it is just that, because he has all the power, and wants things done his way, those who don't are "sinners". True, sometimes people do awful things, but people also have been known to do wonderful things. The problem with some people is that they insist upon this uber dualism and that just isn't the case.

God is the author of creation. He is the moral arbiter. He layed down the rules in the beginning as the author. Man brake his law and the penalties incur. God doesn't owe you, me, or any other worthless sack of carbon anything but judgment. It is not about who has "all the power." It is about who has the legitimate right to arbitrate and adjudicate the proper and improper conduct of man.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Could that be true and there still be a good God?

Of course. You are a sinner, you've fallen short of the Glory of God and you are LEGALLY BOUND for just punishment for your sin - You're going to hell.

UNLESS you accept the provision that God Made for YOU to become one of His Children.

You have a PERFECT RIGHT to live your life anyway you desire, do what YOU want anytime you want, for as long as you're able.

And God, who WILL JUDGE you, will judge you righteously according to your deeds.

Folks have a Stupid idea that God is a "God of LOVE" - ONLY.

but the Bible presents Him accurately as a God of LOVE, AND a God of WRATH, a God of Judgement, a God who KILLS, and WHEN He has killed, He casts into hell.

SO - do what you see fit, but don't come crying here about how "unjust" God is because YOU can't have your way.

And what's any of this got to do with whether He "Exists" or not.