Does God exist if most people go to hell?

[Bick]

Matthew 7 basically says that most people will end up in hell. Could that be true and there still be a good God?

Even though we all can choose whether we're going to be one of the few that end up in heaven, isn't the fact that most people end up in hell a strong argument against the existence of a good God? Let's say that 10% accept Christ and end up in heaven. What does it say about a God who would create 9 people who end up in hell (even though it was their choice or, rather, their lack of choice in Jesus) for every 1 that goes to heaven? If you had 10 sons and made some rules for their lives which you foreknew that only 1 would obey, and you tortured the other 9 for all eternity for failing your test, what does that make you? A loving father? Hardly.

Please explain the concept of a minority in heaven, because this is truly hurting my faith.

Thank you,
genesis2kx1

MY COMMENTS: To my fellow Christian believers: I was raised with the traditional doctrine of "eternal punishment in hell for the wicked," as a youth, but in my late twenties I was shown by a learned pastor/teacher how to use a complete concordance, such as Young's, and other tools. I came to realize that the literal renderings on this subject, particularly, are misleading in practically all English Versions.

The most quoted ones are the words of Jesus in the Gospels (11 places). The Greek word is "geenna" (from Gehenna-Hebrew), which in Jesus day was the Valley of the Sons of Hinnom (from which we get Gehenna). It was the dump site out side the south wall of Jerusalem, where dead bodies and the trash and offal from the city was dumped. It was kept burning to help destroy dead bodies, etc, and to help purify the air.
Jesus warned his disciples and the multitudes against committing sins worthy the judgment of Gehenna. This was the worst sentence possible the Sanhedren could give out. For the sinner/criminal would be stoned to death and his body cast into the Gehenna fire. What ever was not being burned up, the worms (maggots) would eat.

The fires and worms are not eternal, for this Gehenna is no longer, particularly after the Roman army destroyed the Temple and the City in 70 A.D.

But, IMO, outside the restored Jerusalem in the Millenial Kingdom, there will be a firey Gehenna as prophesied in Isaiah 66:23-24, and which our Lord alluded to.

"Hades" is also rendered "hell" in many versions. Yet it's root meaning is "the unseen", sometimes translated "the grave" depending on the context.
The AV renders it "hell" in ten places, but it should read "the unseen" or perhaps "the grave."

The AV uses "hell" for "tartaroo", literally meaning "cast into Tartarus". This occurs in 2 Pet. 2:4. While "Tartarus" was a place in Greek mythology, in the Scriptures it must mean a place of deepest gloom where fallen angels are being held until they will be judged.

So, I emphatically say there is a God who so loves the world he created that, though there is sin and evil during the ages or epochs God has planned, and there will be retribution and vindication on evil doers. But it will be for correction and will be aionion, or age-lasting. "For where sin abounded, GRACE did much more abound" (Rom.5:20).

 

[Oats]

I don't see what is the point of the OP's question....


Many see heaven as "I did good now God will give me something"....


that may be a part of it....

but i don't think life is that simple


Life was made to glorify God, heaven was made to glorify God

those who don't accept Jesus don't believe in a heaven....why would they want to be there


I hate to sound rude

Bur people get what they want.


I think the reason many people have doubts like this is that they forget God sets the standard for good and evil.

----------------------


Someone show me where it says God is bad for delivering people to the hell they have been asking for....



And Deavonreye


You have to remember if God does exist than you may be aproaching him the wrong way

I think we forget God is in the room sometime


If he is infinitely wise we better rethink before we assume anything about his nature

 

[bibleMAN]

In my opinion, how many people are not saved says nothing about God, but everything about us people

 

[Pizzaguy]

I had many times in my life when I attempted to receive it so I could "go to the next level". Each time, there was nothing but the same silence that I experienced in prayer and bible reading.

And yet, millions of us have had a positive experience.

Let me pray and think about this and see if I can come up with an answer for you.

Can you do something for me, tho? Tell me your first name, age, gender and state or country you live in - I find prayer works best when I can picture the person I am praying for.


Mark

 

[darrell]

First of all, I don’t agree that Matthew 7 says “most†people will end up in hell. I can see how several of the verses might be interpreted that way, but that’s not consistent with a God who is love.

Jesus called God “Father†and He teaches us to pray to Him as “Our Father.†As a human father, I love my children SO much, they could never do anything that I would stop loving them. I would sacrifice just about everything for them (except my soul). I would die for them. However, I understand that God gives them free will like everyone else, and no matter how well I teach them or how good an example I set, they could still grow up to do something terrible, something that could land them in prison, or worse… This would break my heart, but no matter what they might grow up to do, I could never stop loving them. I could never “will†them to eternal suffering. As a human father, as much as I love my children, my love is imperfect, and as Jesus says, how much more will our Father in heaven give… This tells me that He will give to each individual every possible chance to be with Him in eternity. No one will go to hell on a technicality, for Jesus will judge with justice.

 

[darrell]

Here's the thing. No one in their right mind would reject something that would place them in a horrible situation, on purpose...

Really?
I think our prisons are full of people who have done just that.

 

[Drew]

Matthew 7 basically says that most people will end up in hell. Could that be true and there still be a good God?..........Please explain the concept of a minority in heaven, because this is truly hurting my faith.

Thank you,
genesis2kx1

Although I am aware that I am in a minority, I take the Bible very seriously and yet have come to the conclusion that no one ends up in an eternal hell. In short, I believe that the "lost" are ultimately annihilated - they cease to exist, rather than spend an eternity in conscious torment.

If this is the correct understanding, then the problem you are struggling with more or less goes away.

You may wonder why I believe in annihilation. I will be happy to discuss this with you in more detail in later posts. For now, I will simply suggest that the writers of the New Testament knew a good metaphor when they saw one. So, following Old Testament precedent, they used colourful and frightening images to depict the fate of the lost that they never intended to be taken literally.

I just read Bick's post and I agree with its content.

 

[jasoncran]

Although I am aware that I am in a minority, I take the Bible very seriously and yet have come to the conclusion that no one ends up in an eternal hell. In short, I believe that the "lost" are ultimately annihilated - they cease to exist, rather than spend an eternity in conscious torment.

If this is the correct understanding, then the problem you are struggling with more or less goes away.

You may wonder why I believe in annihilation. I will be happy to discuss this with you in more detail in later posts. For now, I will simply suggest that the writers of the New Testament knew a good metaphor when they saw one. So, following Old Testament precedent, they used colourful and frightening images to depict the fate of the lost that they never intended to be taken literally.

so they are greater level of death.

think about the verses that say that the person who knows more recievers greater punishement vs someone who didnt know the lord and didnt do the will.

i actually had a jw tell me that, and i thought to myself what hes gonna do,kill me more then once? torture me first then kill me?

 

[Deavonreye]

God is the author of creation. He is the moral arbiter. He layed down the rules in the beginning as the author. Man brake his law and the penalties incur. God doesn't owe you, me, or any other worthless sack of carbon anything but judgment. It is not about who has "all the power." It is about who has the legitimate right to arbitrate and adjudicate the proper and improper conduct of man.

According to Job, it is about "who has all the power". Throughout the Old Testament, there are plenty of places where god kills people, kids, babies, yet he "is justified in doing so because he has no judge over him". Why? Because he has all the power. He insists upon us that which he doesn't have to do. That is a cold hard fact. . . . . yet punishes and tortures people indiscriminately, some who had nothing to do with the reason for his wrath.

And Bob, I am not one who claims god to be a "god of love". I used to, before I actually took the time to study him.

 

[Deavonreye]

Really?
I think our prisons are full of people who have done just that.

I qualified that with "in their right mind". Criminals are obviously not in their right mind.

Even so, even the worst penal institution on this planet cannot compare to what Hell is said to be.

 

[Deavonreye]

Although I am aware that I am in a minority, I take the Bible very seriously and yet have come to the conclusion that no one ends up in an eternal hell. In short, I believe that the "lost" are ultimately annihilated - they cease to exist, rather than spend an eternity in conscious torment.

If this is the correct understanding, then the problem you are struggling with more or less goes away.

You may wonder why I believe in annihilation. I will be happy to discuss this with you in more detail in later posts. For now, I will simply suggest that the writers of the New Testament knew a good metaphor when they saw one. So, following Old Testament precedent, they used colourful and frightening images to depict the fate of the lost that they never intended to be taken literally.

I just read Bick's post and I agree with its content.

Here's a great metaphor for you, Drew. God as a "refiner's fire". Maybe the "Lake of Fire", spoken of in Revelation, is more about this "refiner's fire" in that material is placed in the furnace and the impurities are burned away, leaving the pure metal behind. If nothing remains, . . . . nothing lasts.

 

[darrell]

This is from a meditation by Carmen Humphrey:

He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver… (Malachi: 3, NIV)

A woman sent to watch a silversmith work. As she watched him, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the center of the fire where the flames were hottest so as to burn away all the impurities. The woman thought about God holding us in such a spot. Then she thought about the verse, “He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver…†She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.

The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. For if the silver was left even a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed. The woman was silent for a moment, and then she asked the silversmith, “How do you know when the silver is fully refined?†He smiled and answered, “Oh, that’s the easy part – when I see my image reflected in it.â€

If today you feel the heat of the fire, remember God has His eye on you and will keep His had on you and will watch over you until He sees His image in you.

 

[Deavonreye]

And yet, millions of us have had a positive experience.

Let me pray and think about this and see if I can come up with an answer for you.

Can you do something for me, tho? Tell me your first name, age, gender and state or country you live in - I find prayer works best when I can picture the person I am praying for.


Mark

Mark, thank you for your willingness to put me in your prayers, but it is unnecessary.

As for those "millions who have had possitive experiences", I know the answer to that, but choose to remain silent on the topic out of respect.

 

[Ashua]

According to Job, it is about "who has all the power". Throughout the Old Testament, there are plenty of places where god kills people, kids, babies, yet he "is justified in doing so because he has no judge over him". Why? Because he has all the power. He insists upon us that which he doesn't have to do. That is a cold hard fact. . . . . yet punishes and tortures people indiscriminately, some who had nothing to do with the reason for his wrath.

And Bob, I am not one who claims god to be a "god of love". I used to, before I actually took the time to study him.

Let me say it this way:

If man and this planet existed completely independent of God, so that he was an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience being, and the only difference is that he did NOT create this world or its inhabitants, you would have a case in my sight. If a man makes a pot, and after some time the pot wears away or breaks and no longer performs the function of its intended purpose for creation, the man disowns the potsherds. So it is with the froward.

Because God authored us, we are subject to His will. He designed us. He is entitled to write the "owners manual." Man offended God before He ever judged man. He has the right to do with us, His creation according to His good pleasure. Fulfill your "God-given" purpose, and it will be well with you, unto salvation. Rebel, and you cannot blame Him when He raises His hand against you; even as Satan fell from glory because he thought himself to be equal with God.

 

[Deavonreye]

Let me say it this way:

If man and this planet existed completely independent of God, so that he was an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience being, and the only difference is that he did NOT create this world or its inhabitants, you would have a case in my sight. If a man makes a pot, and after some time the pot wears away or breaks and no longer performs the function of its intended purpose for creation, the man disowns the potsherds. So it is with the froward.

The pot that wears out is replaced with a new one, and though it is thrown away, it isn't cursed by the owner.

Because God authored us, we are subject to His will. He designed us. He is entitled to write the "owners manual." Man offended God before He ever judged man. He has the right to do with us, His creation according to His good pleasure. Fulfill your "God-given" purpose, and it will be well with you, unto salvation. Rebel, and you cannot blame Him when He raises His hand against you; even as Satan fell from glory because he thought himself to be equal with God.

Right, . . . subject to this god's will because he has the power. We are insignificant and many can be sent to oblivion without shedding a tear down his face. What you hear of is "they were disobedient and have prompted me to wrath and anger, so I will destroy them". Many times, in the Old Testament, there isn't even a second chance. Just a hoard of souls out of the way so that my [god's ] will is done.

It may sound harsh, but that is the way I see the Old Testament god, and even the end of the New Testament.

I don't believe that such a god [as I have seen in scripture] actually exists. I see the words as nearly all man made. Any deity worth agreeing with would not be like is commonly believed. He/she/they would superscede any attempts of man to put him/her/them into words.

 

[Jakeness]

Because God authored us, we are subject to His will.

What happened to the Bible guaranteeing us free will?

 

[jasoncran]

What happened to the Bible guaranteeing us free will?

same could be said about the constution authority of law enforcement.

we have some free will, we arent robots but it ends where others are affected

i may have the ability to kill you, but if i do i must pay the consquences. thus my will is limited if i want to live or be free.

 

[darrell]

I qualified that with "in their right mind". Criminals are obviously not in their right mind.

Even so, even the worst penal institution on this planet cannot compare to what Hell is said to be.

Okay. What is "right minded"?

 

[Deavonreye]

Okay. What is "right minded"?

Someone in their right mind won't murder a person indescriminately. They won't allow their anger to violate someone's rights. They won't allow their desires to go so far as to take another person's stuff. Basically, what I'm getting as is, someone in their right mind won't do something that would cause them a stay in the pen.

 

[Ashua]

The pot that wears out is replaced with a new one, and though it is thrown away, it isn't cursed by the owner.



Right, . . . subject to this god's will because he has the power. We are insignificant and many can be sent to oblivion without shedding a tear down his face. What you hear of is "they were disobedient and have prompted me to wrath and anger, so I will destroy them". Many times, in the Old Testament, there isn't even a second chance. Just a hoard of souls out of the way so that my [god's ] will is done.

It may sound harsh, but that is the way I see the Old Testament god, and even the end of the New Testament.

I don't believe that such a god [as I have seen in scripture] actually exists. I see the words as nearly all man made. Any deity worth agreeing with would not be like is commonly believed. He/she/they would superscede any attempts of man to put him/her/them into words.

Divine existence is not contingent on emotionalism. You are putting the carriage before the horse when you form the character and attributes of God after the image of man. You are making yourself the moral arbiter, without credential, in so judging the Creator of all and His absolute moral code in a 21st century westernized ethnocentric declaration of what "good and just and love" is and what "evil, and wickedness, and hatred is.

You are right on the technicality that God rules because He has the power because everything was created by that power, but without Him is no thing created.