Does God love everyone in the world, and want them to be saved?

[JLB]

But you do not compare scripture with Scripture. The "all" in Paul's text can mean "all kinds."

Yes all kinds of people. God desires all kinds of people throughout the world, no matter their station in life or ethnic background , God desires them to be saved.

God even desires that the elect, would also become saved.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

 

[Whatever]

God desires all men in the world to be saved.

Okay, let's think a minute and remember what Paul tells us.

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Okay, it pleased God to save people through the foolishness of the message preached. Faith comes by hearing.

Okay, for thousands or hundreds of years God left American Indians, Australian Aborigines, and Amazon natives without the preaching of the word. Paul says faith comes by hearing.

Since God is pleased to save people through the message preached, how would you say that God desired all those people mentioned above to be saved without the very means He says He is going to use to save people?

 

[Whatever]

God even desires that the elect, would also become saved.

Another example

Jos 6:2 And the LORD said to Joshua: "See! I have given Jericho into your hand, its king, and the mighty men of valor.

Jos 6:6 Then Joshua the son of Nun called the priests and said to them, "Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the LORD."
Jos 6:7 And he said to the people, "Proceed, and march around the city, and let him who is armed advance before the ark of the LORD."

Jos 6:10 Now Joshua had commanded the people, saying, "You shall not shout or make any noise with your voice, nor shall a word proceed out of your mouth, until the day I say to you, 'Shout!' Then you shall shout."

Jos 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.

They marched around this city for 7 days. They had plenty of time to preach the word to them and let those who accepted come out and join God's people.

It doesn't seem to me that God desired for all those people in Jericho to be saved.

 

[JLB]

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Rom 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Where in these verses does it say God doesn’t desire all men to be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes all kinds of people. God desires all kinds of people throughout the world, no matter their station in life or ethnic background , God desires them to be saved.

God even desires that the elect, would also become saved.


Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

God doesnt desire the vessels of wrath to be saved since He made them for and is fitting them for destruction, everlasting destruction. 2 Thess 1:9

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 

[JLB]

God doesnt desire the vessels of wrath to be saved since He made them for and is fitting them for destruction, everlasting destruction. 2 Thess 1:9

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


This passage does not mention vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.


The context is those who do not obey the Gospel, and those who do not know Him.


Here is what the scripture says about knowing Him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Only born again Christians that keep His commandments, know Him.


Please explain what the term “obey the Gospel” means?



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


This passage does not mention vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.


The context is those who do not obey the Gospel, and those who do not know Him.


Here is what the scripture says about knowing Him.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Only born again Christians that keep His commandments, know Him.


Please explain what the term “obey the Gospel” means?



JLB

Thats the reprobate, those who God created for wrath and destruction. They were appointed to disobedience to the word. 1 Pet 2:8

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

God never desired their obedience, or to be saved. God isnt doubleminded as you and i may be

 

[JLB]

Thats the reprobate, those who God created for wrath and destruction. They were appointed ot disobedience oto the word. 1 Pet 2:8

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

God never desired their obedience, or to be saved. God isnt doubleminded as you and i may be

The verse you quoted, 2 Thessalonians 1:9 doesn’t mention vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


You constantly keep misquoting and misrepresenting the scriptures.


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:3-4

God desires all men in the world to be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

God loves the world, all people in the world, and desires them to be saved. Unfortunately many will chose their own way, and not The Way, The Truth, and The Eternal Life, that Jesus paid the price for them to have.

 

[JLB]

You need to explain why Gods desire of all men being saved does not come to pass.

Because some men choose darkness rather than light.

• men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:16-19



Yet God loves the world and desires all men to be saved.

• For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:3-4



Do you agree with these verses?





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

The verse you quoted, 2 Thessalonians 1:9 doesn’t mention vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9


You constantly keep misquoting and misrepresenting the scriptures.


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:3-4

God desires all men in the world to be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

God loves the world, all people in the world, and desires them to be saved. Unfortunately many will chose their own way, and not The Way, The Truth, and The Eternal Life, that Jesus paid the price for them to have.

God doesnt desire to save those being fitted for destruction, for thats the reason for their existence.

 

[JLB]

God doesnt desire to save those being fitted for destruction, for thats the reason for their existence.

More of your opinion.


The condition for a person to become saved is to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



A person must first believe in order for them to be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

More of your opinion.


The condition for a person to become saved is to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



A person must first believe in their rider to be saved.

God doesnt desire the vessels of wrath to believe or be saved, He desires/wills for them to be lost in unbelief and sin and go into destruction everlastingly.

 

[JLB]

God doesnt desire the vessels of wrath to believe or be saved, He desires/wills for them to be lost in unbelief and sin and go into destruction everlastingly.

More opinion.

Thanks for exposing the unbiblical position of Calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

More opinion.

Thanks for exposing the unbiblical position of Calvinism.

You are being exposed as to your opposition to the truth, which is Gods will !

 

[JLB]

You are being exposed as to your opposition to the truth, which is Gods will !

God doesnt desire the vessels of wrath to believe or be saved, He desires/wills for them to be lost in unbelief and sin and go into destruction everlastingly.

God doesnt desire to save those being fitted for destruction, for thats the reason for their existence.

So far all you have is opinion.



The condition for a person to become saved is to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



A person must first believe in order for them to be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

So far all you have is opinion.



The condition for a person to become saved is to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



A person must first believe in order for them to be saved.

Its Gods desire for the vessels of wrath to disbey and go into everlasting destruction, never to be saved, it was never possible for them to be saved.

 

[Whatever]

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:3-4



Do you agree with these verses?

I agree with what the verses mean, not what you think they mean. You left off the first 2 verses of 1 Timothy

1Ti 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

What Paul is saying in the first verse is all kinds of men without distinction.. Paul does not expect his people to pray for every single person living at that time. He goes on and shows that in the 2nd verse when he gives an example of those all kinds of men when he mentions kings and all those in authority.

He means the exact thing in verses 3 and 4.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Again, that word "pleasure" there is the Hebrew word chepets. Here are other passages where it is used.

1 kings 5:8 Then Hiram sent to Solomon, saying: I have considered the message which you sent me, and I will do all you desire concerning the cedar and cypress logs.

Do you believe Isaiah 46:10, that God will do all His desire? If He desired all men to be saved, He will do it.

Isa 46:11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

Isa 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Again, according to your interpretation of a few verses, God's word does not accomplish what He send it to do i.e. the salvation of every human being.

 

[JLB]

I agree with what the verses mean, not what you think they mean. You left off the first 2 verses of 1 Timothy

1Ti 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

What Paul is saying in the first verse is all kinds of men without distinction.. Paul does not expect his people to pray for every single person living at that time. He goes on and shows that in the 2nd verse when he gives an example of those all kinds of men when he mentions kings and all those in authority.

All men including those in authority.

Very simple. Very clear.

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-7


God desires all men, all kinds of men, those in authority who have influence in the affairs of men, so that they will influence in a godly way and be a reflection of our righteous King.

God loves all the people in the world, and desires for them to be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


God desires all men to come to repentance — not willing that any should perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

• Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, Acts 17:30

Sorry sir, but the Bible is clear, and no amount of twisting will change the word of God.

• God loves the world; the world of unregenerate sinners.

• God desires for all to come to repentance not willing that any should perish.

• God desires all men to be saved.

JLB

 

[Whatever]

God loves the world; the world of unregenerate sinners.

You talk of twisting Scriptures. God so loved the Kosmos. He is talking about the whole universe that God made in the beginning.

Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom_8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
Rom_8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom_8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

The salvation of God's elect will also be the salvation of the creation. So, God's purpose is not to just to try to save a bunch of people. God so loves His whole creation that He send His Son to redeem believers and with them the whole creation.

 

[Whatever]

Where in these verses does it say God doesn’t desire all men to be saved.

Where are the verses that says God desires every single person who ever has lived or will live to be saved?

Romans 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

Prepared from Vines Complete Expository Dictionary: katartizo (G2675), "to furnish completely, prepare," is translated "didst Thou prepare" in Heb_10:5 (KJV, "hast Thou prepared"), of the body of the Lord Jesus.

I cannot see God desiring the salvation of people He prepared for destruction.

Again, the problem is you insisting that the word "pas" (all) in that or other passages means "all without exception."

Once more, one example is Acts 10:11-12. Peter sees a sheet come down from Heaven in which were all the four-footed beasts of the earth, and the wild beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the heaven,
That is the literal translation. It only has the word "pas" in there. But look at that verse in a bunch of newer translations and you will see they added the word "kinds" or "manner" because they know every animal in the world is not meant. And by Peter's action later when God told him to "kill and eat" Peter said:
Act 10:14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."
It appears that only unclean animals were on that sheet.

Again, "pas" can legitimately mean "all kinds" or "some of all kinds." Since other passages tell me that God prepared some men for destruction (Romans 9:22), I cannot interpret "desires to save all men" as "desires to save every person who has or ever will live."

I'm simply trying to let Scripture interpret Scripture, and not let my presuppositions or wishes interpret Scripture.