Does God love those condemned to hell?

[Hitch]

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

Psalms 7:11 (KJV) "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry (Heb: properly, to foam at the mouth, i.e. to be enraged:--abhor, abominable, (be) angry, defy, (have) indignation) [with the wicked] every day."

Psalms 11:4-6 (ASV) "Jehovah is in his holy temple; Jehovah, his throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. Jehovah trieth the righteous; But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup."

Malachi 1:2-4 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places; thus saith Jehovah of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and men shall call them The border of wickedness, and The people against whom Jehovah hath indignation for ever."

Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV) "These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV) "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew [loved] you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


The answer of course is no.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

His desire is for every unrepentant sinner to come to Him. That is love for hell bound sinners.

But like any earth bound Father, God can't pour his manifest love out on a son or daughter that chooses to live outside of their Father's favor because of rebellion and distance from him. Any father of a rebellious teenager knows you can't give your love to an obstinate wayward son or daughter...but that hardly means you don't love them.

 

[felix]

His desire is for every unrepentant sinner to come to Him. That is love for hell bound sinners.

I agree!

But like any earth bound Father, God can't pour his manifest love out on a son or daughter that chooses to live outside of their Father's favor because of rebellion and distance from him. Any father of a rebellious teenager knows you can't give your love to an obstinate wayward son or daughter...but that hardly means you don't love them.

I disagree..!

(Rom 8:14-15) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."

So, what if someone is not led by Spirit of God?

(Heb 12:6-8) For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

KJV calls the people who are not received by the Lord as "bastards" not "sons".

 

[stovebolts]

Felix,

I would suggest you look at the original intent that the prodigal son sought to convey. Jethro is correct.

 

[felix]

Felix,

I would suggest you look at the original intent that the prodigal son sought to convey. Jethro is correct.

In the prodigal son, the Father ran coming to the son only when he repented and came to his father - nor anytime before and neither without the son repenting.

(Acts 2:38) Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Without repentance, the free gift of Holy Spirit is denied to everyone which makes any "rebellious" a bastard (as kjv puts it).

 

[Elijah674]

I agree!



I disagree..!

(Rom 8:14-15) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."

So, what if someone is not led by Spirit of God?

(Heb 12:6-8) For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

KJV calls the people who are not received by the Lord as "bastards" not "sons".

I see this differently. These ALL are Partakers! ''.. of which ARE PARTAKERS..' (K.J. ... and just wondering about your jumping back & forth with translation of quots?)

And this needs to be understood as I see it, to mean that Christ requires [loving very HARD duties] against human nature. Case in point is only one! But the rebellion of Num. 16 had famous and men of renown leading the way. Surely this was a real type chastening to Moses? And did he have to obey??

Even note verse 3 ibid that he was told '.. seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: ..' And when one considers the Rev. 17:1-5 prophecy, for any minister to try to conbat this is Surely & SORELY against his nature!

And to be '.. then are ye bastards'. (KJ again) So again;), I find that it is within my power to become fatherless once again by my own 'freewill' to not do My Lords required HARD DUTIES for me to do.

See for this requirement that fatal one of Eze. 9:4 last part of the verse.

--Elijah

 

[stovebolts]

In the prodigal son, the Father ran coming to the son only when he repented and came to his father - nor anytime before and neither without the son repenting.

(Acts 2:38) Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Without repentance, the free gift of Holy Spirit is denied to everyone which makes any "rebellious" a bastard (as kjv puts it).

Any father of a rebellious teenager knows you can't give your love to an obstinate wayward son or daughter...but that hardly means you don't love them.

I disagree..!

Felix,

Just so you know what I'm arguing against, I've posted in bold.

Now then.... about the parable.
You have missed the intent of the parable. Who is the younger brother?
Would the father love the younger son any less had he not repented?
Stop acting like a big brother ;)

God's nature does not change... Or do you not understand the bitter waters of Marah (Exodus 15). There is no rejoicing over the death of anyone, even Pharaoh.

 

[Hitch]

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

Psalms 7:11 (KJV) "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry (Heb: properly, to foam at the mouth, i.e. to be enraged:--abhor, abominable, (be) angry, defy, (have) indignation) [with the wicked] every day."

Psalms 11:4-6 (ASV) "Jehovah is in his holy temple; Jehovah, his throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. Jehovah trieth the righteous; But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup."

Malachi 1:2-4 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places; thus saith Jehovah of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and men shall call them The border of wickedness, and The people against whom Jehovah hath indignation for ever."



The unconditionally all loving God is as real and Scriptural as the Easter Bunny.

 

[stovebolts]

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

Psalms 7:11 (KJV) "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry (Heb: properly, to foam at the mouth, i.e. to be enraged:--abhor, abominable, (be) angry, defy, (have) indignation) [with the wicked] every day."

Psalms 11:4-6 (ASV) "Jehovah is in his holy temple; Jehovah, his throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. Jehovah trieth the righteous; But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup."

Malachi 1:2-4 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places; thus saith Jehovah of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and men shall call them The border of wickedness, and The people against whom Jehovah hath indignation for ever."



The unconditionally all loving God is as real and Scriptural as the Easter Bunny.

Does God rejoice in the death of the wicked Hitch?
does God only desire "his" children to be saved?
who was hell prepared for Hitch?

 

[Hitch]

Does God rejoice in the death of the wicked Hitch?

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-31019">1</sup>And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-31020">2</sup>For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

does God only desire "his" children to be saved?

Of course

who was hell prepared for Hitch?

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

Psalms 7:11 (KJV) "God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry (Heb: properly, to foam at the mouth, i.e. to be enraged:--abhor, abominable, (be) angry, defy, (have) indignation) [with the wicked] every day."

Psalms 11:4-6 (ASV) "Jehovah is in his holy temple; Jehovah, his throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. Jehovah trieth the righteous; But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup."

Malachi 1:2-4 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places; thus saith Jehovah of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and men shall call them The border of wickedness, and The people against whom Jehovah hath indignation for ever."


For ever is a long time Stove.

 

[Hitch]

Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13976">2</sup>Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13977">3</sup>My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13978">4</sup>For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13979">5</sup>The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13980">6</sup>Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13981">7</sup>But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13982">8</sup>Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13983">9</sup>For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13984">10</sup>Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13985">11</sup>But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-13986">12</sup>For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.




Obviously the writer has no concept of the 21st century God...

 

[stovebolts]

Does God rejoice in the death of the wicked Hitch?

You replied:

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

We see that God does not take pleasure in wickedness, and we also see that God destroys those who lie, and he thinks lowly of the blood-thirsty and deceitful man. However, this verse does not answer the question: "Does God delight in the death of the wicked.

Ezekiel 18:23-24 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? saith the Lord Jehovah;

You still have not answered the question Hitch. God is now asking you, Does he take pleasure in the death of the wicked Hitch? How will you answer God?

who was hell prepared for Hitch?

You quoted many passages, but none of them answered the question Hitch. Tell ya what, I'll give this one to you.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matthew 25:41)

I didn't say it Hitch, Jesus did.

 

[Hitch]

You replied:

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man."

We see that God does not take pleasure in wickedness, and we also see that God destroys those who lie, and he thinks lowly of the blood-thirsty and deceitful man. However, this verse does not answer the question: "Does God delight in the death of the wicked.

However the question here is; Does God love those condemned to hell?

Ezekiel 18:23-24 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? saith the Lord Jehovah;

You still have not answered the question Hitch. God is now asking you, Does he take pleasure in the death of the wicked Hitch? How will you answer God?

0The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-14791">11</sup>So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.



Hows that?

You quoted many passages, but none of them answered the question Hitch. Tell ya what, I'll give this one to you.

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matthew 25:41)

I didn't say it Hitch, Jesus did.

So it is God' will and Christ's own judgment that those on the left are sent to 'ever lasting fire' .

It doesnt take much to see that Jesus was ,while not being literal, was indeed realistic when he told the Pharisees their father was the devil. Or you can make a case that God was somehow tricked into sending them to hell, or was forced to change his mind ass regards the use of the place. . Dont you think its more likely that he is ,by demonstration, warning of just how displeased and vengeful he is toward them ? What does it take? At one point he calls them sons of the devil, at another he declares he will send then to a place made for devils. One of us has missed the point of this passage and its not me.

 

[stovebolts]

Your evading the questions Hitch.

Scripture has already been established that although people will be in hell, it was not prepared for them. No, Jesus says that people will be sent to a place that was prepared for the devil and his angels.

The second question was this, "Does God rejoice in the death of the wicked"? You still have not answered this question.

Here is what God says, not I Hitch.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

So we see Hitch that God wants the wicked to turn away from their wickedness. That is God's desire. Thus, in summary:
1 Timothy 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Why else do you think scripture would say,
Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Hell will be full of people that God loves...

Would you mind telling us who the younger son was in the parable of the prodigal son? Who was the older?

 

[Hitch]

Your evading the questions Hitch.

Scripture has already been established that although people will be in hell, it was not prepared for them. No, Jesus says that people will be sent to a place that was prepared for the devil and his angels.

Like I said , you've missed the point here;

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24042">33</sup>And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24043">34</sup>Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24044">35</sup>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24045">36</sup>Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24046">37</sup>Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24047">38</sup>When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24048">39</sup>Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24049">40</sup>And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24050">41</sup>Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



You contend that hell was not prepared for 'them' . The passages doesnt say that does it? In fact , v 34 tells us a great deal about both. Its plain enough that what is presented here is sides of a coin, and not at all that hell was not prepared for them as you contend. In fact quite the contrary.

The second question was this, "Does God rejoice in the death of the wicked"? You still have not answered this question.

Here is what God says, not I Hitch.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Note the locus, O house of Israel. Perhaps you can explain just why vengeance is so important to God he pointedly claims it as his particular province?

So we see Hitch that God wants the wicked to turn away from their wickedness. That is God's desire. Thus, in summary:
1 Timothy 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Why else do you think scripture would say,
Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Hell will be full of people that God loves...

Psalms 5:4-6 "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man.

You are mistaken , heaven will be full of people God loves.

Would you mind telling us who the younger son was in the parable of the prodigal son? Who was the older?

Sure , start a thread on it.

 

[stovebolts]

Ohh Hitch...

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

One can certainly loose their inheritance... and instead go to a place prepared for the devil and his angels.

The line of thinking that you are going down Hitch leads to some pretty scarey theology. Serpent Seed theology comes to mind, but then so does Hyper Calvinism.

You see Hitch, you have asserted that there are those who were were created to spend eternity in Hell, and those who were created to spend eternity in Heaven. This is certainly not the case.

Note the locus, O house of Israel.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

So your saying that God only loves the wicked from the house of Israel? All other wicked people God hates? Is that what you're saying?

You posted a snipit of Psalm 5. Lets look at that shall we?

Psalms 5:4 For you are not a God that has pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with you.

Regarding this Psalm, where did God dwell? Of course, it was above the Cherubim that overlooked the Ark. And where was the Ark?...

Psalms 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, you that lead Joseph like a flock; you that dwell between the cherubim, shine forth.

Who is this directed toward? Let us be sure as we read on.

Psalms 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is pure wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

Paul quotes this verse in Romans 2. And who is Romans 2 directed at when this is quoted? The Jews of course. But moreso than just the Jews... do your homework Hitch. To whom is the Psalm directed at?

What you have done Hitch, is try to rule out Ezekiel 33:11 by saying it was directed at Israel, thus voiding the scripture while using Psalm 5 as a counter while not understanding that it too was directed at Israel.

Looks like you'll have to go back to the drawing board, cause what's good for the goose, is also good for the gander..

 

[stovebolts]

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Note the locus, O house of Israel.Perhaps you can explain just why vengeance is so important to God he pointedly claims it as his particular province?

I just saw the addition to your edit which you added the above in bold and I will certainly address it lightly.

First off, I wouldn't call it vengeance. Here is why.

Israel was in covenant with YHVH. They had the law, so they were not ignorant of God's will. Moreso, they agreed to abide by God's ways and they clearly understood the agreement.

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 And it shall come to pass, if you shall hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD your God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command you this day, that the LORD your God will set you on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on you, and overtake you, if you shall hearken unto the voice of the LORD your God.

and the flip side...

Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if you will not hearken unto the voice of the LORD your God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you this day; that all these curses shall come upon you, and overtake you:

And a list of curses follows.

Simply put, they knew better. Jesus put it this way,

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I think the moral is this Hitch. As believers, we need to be very careful what we teach...

 

[stovebolts]

Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Was just pondering this and it reminded me of Eli's two sons whom were priests and served at the Altar.

Eli’s Wicked Sons

12 Eli’s sons were scoundrels; they had no regard for the LORD. 13 Now it was the practice of the priests that, whenever any of the people offered a sacrifice, the priest’s servant would come with a three-pronged fork in his hand while the meat was being boiled 14 and would plunge the fork into the pan or kettle or caldron or pot. Whatever the fork brought up the priest would take for himself. This is how they treated all the Israelites who came to Shiloh. 15 But even before the fat was burned, the priest’s servant would come and say to the person who was sacrificing, “Give the priest some meat to roast; he won’t accept boiled meat from you, but only raw.â€
16 If the person said to him, “Let the fat be burned first, and then take whatever you want,†the servant would answer, “No, hand it over now; if you don’t, I’ll take it by force.â€

17 This sin of the young men was very great in the LORD’s sight, for they were treating the LORD’s offering with contempt.

 

[Hitch]

I just saw the addition to your edit which you added the above in bold and I will certainly address it lightly.

First off, I wouldn't call it vengeance. Here is why.

I was not impying that vengeance had any connection to that particular passage ,but rather that God claims vengeance as his personal domain. Although the lack of clarity is on me. To be more precise though God does take vengeance against apostates, even those in the royal family.

Israel was in covenant with YHVH. They had the law, so they were not ignorant of God's will. Moreso, they agreed to abide by God's ways and they clearly understood the agreement.

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 And it shall come to pass, if you shall hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD your God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command you this day, that the LORD your God will set you on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on you, and overtake you, if you shall hearken unto the voice of the LORD your God.

and the flip side...

Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if you will not hearken unto the voice of the LORD your God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you this day; that all these curses shall come upon you, and overtake you:

And a list of curses follows.

Simply put, they knew better. Jesus put it this way,

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

I think the moral is this Hitch. As believers, we need to be very careful what we teach... Indeed, perhaps you should start a thread and support your assertion ;Hell will be full of people that God loves...

As Stove likes to say,you didnt answer the question.
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

 

[Hitch]

Ohh Hitch...

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

One can certainly loose their inheritance... and instead go to a place prepared for the devil and his angels.

The line of thinking that you are going down Hitch leads to some pretty scarey theology. Serpent Seed theology comes to mind, but then so does Hyper Calvinism.

Hell will be full of people that God loves... :toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

You see Hitch, you have asserted that there are those who were were created to spend eternity in Hell, and those who were created to spend eternity in Heaven. This is certainly not the case.



Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

So your saying that God only loves the wicked from the house of Israel? All other wicked people God hates? Is that what you're saying?

God's love covers and trasends the sins of the elect, not that every last Israelite meets that standard your assumption is correct to a point.

You posted a snipit of Psalm 5. Lets look at that shall we?

Psalms 5:4 For you are not a God that has pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with you.

Regarding this Psalm, where did God dwell? Of course, it was above the Cherubim that overlooked the Ark. And where was the Ark?...

Psalms 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, you that lead Joseph like a flock; you that dwell between the cherubim, shine forth.

Who is this directed toward? Let us be sure as we read on.

Psalms 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is pure wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

Paul quotes this verse in Romans 2. And who is Romans 2 directed at when this is quoted? The Jews of course. But moreso than just the Jews... do your homework Hitch. To whom is the Psalm directed at?

Apostates attacking David and his throne. Muck like those of Israel that attacked the King in the first century, Stove.

What you have done Hitch, is try to rule out Ezekiel 33:11 by saying it was directed at Israel, thus voiding the scripture while using Psalm 5 as a counter while not understanding that it too was directed at Israel.

Looks like you'll have to go back to the drawing board, cause what's good for the goose, is also good for the gander..

See above