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Does humanity still have a sin problem that needs fixing?

  • Thread starter TruthSeeker2012
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TruthSeeker2012

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According to Father God, there is no sin. It was taken care off and fully paid by Jesus, the Lamb of God, at Calvary, 2000 years ago!

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Notice SIN is singular, not plural, meaning the SIN from beginning to end, was placed on Jesus and Father God accepted Jesus' death AS FULL PAYMENT FOR ALL SIN!

Father God, from His view, His perspective, His sight, there is no longer a sin problem.

If we still have a sin problem that humans need to fix, then Jesus' death at Calvary was incomplete, a scam, a lie, and we are still in HUGE TROUBLE and we now need to perform human duties, deeds and works to solve and fix the sin problem which Jesus' death didn't fully fix.

Hebrews 9:22 says that "without the shedding of Blood, there is no forgiveness." So understand it once for all, you cannot make yourself clean, no matter what you do.. you can only trust in Jesus' blood to make you clean and to forgive you.

This is what the Bible says:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

Hence, Jesus took away sin completely at Calvary, it's done! Hence, John said, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world", John 1:29. Notice SIN is singular, not plural! Jesus took away sin completely at Calvary, it's done, it's complete, IT IS FINISHED, John 19:30

Sin is not what causes a person to be lost, because sin problem was fixed by Jesus at Calvary. What causes a person to be lost is their rejection of the love of the truth, and Jesus IS the truth, John 14:6, so if you refuse to love the truth, you refuse to love Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

People who believe and teach others that they must beg God to forgive them every day, or perform particular duties and works, or clean yourself up, or become sinless, to remain saved, have never fully understood what happened at Calvary and how Father God views it.

So understand it once for all, you cannot make yourself clean, no matter what you do. You cannot defeat Satan and sin on your own! Jesus did that at Calvary 2000 years ago. Haven't you heard?

And remember, you can only trust in Jesus' blood to make you clean and to save you. Hebrews 9:22 says that "without the shedding of Blood, there is no forgiveness." And salvation is only by faith in Jesus' shed blood at Calvary. NO OTHER BLOOD WILL DO and NO AMOUNTS OF WORKS WILL DO!

Justification is a legal term, but it's ONLY applied to those who place faith in Jesus. It's true that the SIN problem is fixed by Jesus at the Cross, hence, John said, THE LAMB WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD, John 1:29. Notice it's singular, SIN. And it was completely dealt with by Jesus. IF we still have a sin problem today, then Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary was the biggest scam and deception in known history and that means we still have a sin problem that Jesus failed to fix and that means Jesus is NOT the bridge to the Father. See my point?

You should only walk in obedience out of love and the fruit of already having been saved, and not the other way around like you teach.

SIN is not what will cause the lost to be lost...they will be lost because they refused to love the truth (Jesus) and refused to be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
 
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TruthSeeker2012 said:
"IF we still have a sin problem today, then Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary was the biggest scam and deception in known history and that means we still have a sin problem that Jesus failed to fix and that means Jesus is NOT the bridge to the Father. See my point?
Click to expand...


Perhaps it's (still) a problem (for some) because they have not received/accepted the answer to the problem.

Or could it be that it's really a redemption problem? It's one thing to acknowledge what the Lord has delievered us from and quite another to realize what He has bought us in to!


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
According to Father God, there is no sin. It was taken care off and fully paid by Jesus, the Lamb of God, at Calvary, 2000 years ago!

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Notice SIN is singular, not plural, meaning the SIN from beginning to end, was placed on Jesus and Father God accepted Jesus' death AS FULL PAYMENT FOR ALL SIN!

Father God, from His view, His perspective, His sight, there is no longer a sin problem.

If we still have a sin problem that humans need to fix, then Jesus' death at Calvary was incomplete, a scam, a lie, and we are still in HUGE TROUBLE and we now need to perform human duties, deeds and works to solve and fix the sin problem which Jesus' death didn't fully fix.

Hebrews 9:22 says that "without the shedding of Blood, there is no forgiveness." So understand it once for all, you cannot make yourself clean, no matter what you do.. you can only trust in Jesus' blood to make you clean and to forgive you.

This is what the Bible says:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

Hence, Jesus took away sin completely at Calvary, it's done! Hence, John said, "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world", John 1:29. Notice SIN is singular, not plural! Jesus took away sin completely at Calvary, it's done, it's complete, IT IS FINISHED, John 19:30

Sin is not what causes a person to be lost, because sin problem was fixed by Jesus at Calvary. What causes a person to be lost is their rejection of the love of the truth, and Jesus IS the truth, John 14:6, so if you refuse to love the truth, you refuse to love Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

People who believe and teach others that they must beg God to forgive them every day, or perform particular duties and works, or clean yourself up, or become sinless, to remain saved, have never fully understood what happened at Calvary and how Father God views it.

So understand it once for all, you cannot make yourself clean, no matter what you do. You cannot defeat Satan and sin on your own! Jesus did that at Calvary 2000 years ago. Haven't you heard?

And remember, you can only trust in Jesus' blood to make you clean and to save you. Hebrews 9:22 says that "without the shedding of Blood, there is no forgiveness." And salvation is only by faith in Jesus' shed blood at Calvary. NO OTHER BLOOD WILL DO and NO AMOUNTS OF WORKS WILL DO!

Justification is a legal term, but it's ONLY applied to those who place faith in Jesus. It's true that the SIN problem is fixed by Jesus at the Cross, hence, John said, THE LAMB WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD, John 1:29. Notice it's singular, SIN. And it was completely dealt with by Jesus. IF we still have a sin problem today, then Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary was the biggest scam and deception in known history and that means we still have a sin problem that Jesus failed to fix and that means Jesus is NOT the bridge to the Father. See my point?

You should only walk in obedience out of love and the fruit of already having been saved, and not the other way around like you teach.

SIN is not what will cause the lost to be lost...they will be lost because they refused to love the truth (Jesus) and refused to be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Click to expand...

There are just two CONDITIONS! Obey Live or Disobey and Die!

This below remark is flawed to the core!..

[If we still have a sin problem that humans need to fix, then Jesus' death at Calvary was incomplete, a scam, a lie, and we are still in HUGE TROUBLE and we now need to perform human duties, deeds and works to solve and fix the sin problem which Jesus' death didn't fully fix.]


It is twisted from the word 'humans need to fix' on! See Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 Forum for what & how sin is to be dealt with!! Inspiration is flate out calling the remark posted up [satanic!] in 2 Cor. 4:2


[In Christ] Rom. 8:1 JUSTIFIED or [your free choice] to be AGAIN BE OUT OF CHRIST! Rom. 8:14! Doing 'ones' own satan thing. Gen. 4:7. (of posting up lies!)

SALVATION IS CONDITIONAL from its START! Obey LIVE, dis/obey James 1:15's END, FINDS DEATH! [ETERNAL!]

Nothing wrong with OBEDIENCE TO THE PLAN as long as one follows the CONDITIONAL PLAN. The PLAN is PERFECT!! All Provisions to stay OBEDIENT ARE THERE! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 again for how it is done!

And: So it is ones free choice to MATURE IN the opposite direction into Obad. 1:16's ceasing to be out of existance as documented over & over again there! From never knowing or accepting Christ or to the point of once of being in Christ to then choosing to apostasizing out!

OK: The [Sin Problem] WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF!! Nah. 1:9 One will MATURE and LOVE ALL OF CHRIST (1 John 2:4) or they will become MATURELY evil & LOVE satan & SIN. Maturely solid one way or the other! Matt. 6:24 But forum, these ones of today are the worst kind! See Luke 12:47-48!

--Elijah
 
I want to mention three problems with the OP.

1. This is the exact issue debated between Pelagius and Augustine over 1500 years ago. The OP is not expressing orthodox theology. It denies original sin, sin nature, and the effects of the fall of man. In essence it is a denial that we are all under sin. Man is then a blank slate, or better, man is born naturally righteous because of the shed blood of Jesus Christ. The OP is actually a form of universalism in which at birth, you are born saved, and then if you sin, you fall from that salvation. In orthodox theology, man is born a sinner. I am not saying man is merely born with an inclination to make some mistakes, I am saying that the scriptural teaching is that man from conception, man is evil by nature. A good reference is Psalm 51:6.
" 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me. "

2. The main reference of the OP is taken out of context. The problem is the word "world." The OP assumes that the term "world" refers to all mankind without any exceptions. This is not true of the term "kosmos" (world). The term merely implies people of all kinds. So then, John 1:29 is not a reference to Christ saving the whole world and taking away their sin nature. In fact, Romans 6 will explain what the shed blood of Christ did for those for whom Christ died. It removes the legal right of sin to be in control, but the sin nature itself is not dead. A key concept in Romans 6 is that the sin nature is still alive, but it is no longer the master. I probably should give an exegesis of that Chapter, but the post would then be too long.

3. The OP also does not answer some of the other objections. Such as if you look up one of his references, Hebrews 9:28, it is a reference to an atonement not for "all" but only for "many."
28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation.
There are many other verses which speak of the extent of the effects of the atonement to be limited to only believers.

I want to add that there is a way that I appreciate the OP. I cannot agree that universalism is a biblical doctrine, but I recognize that if one is going to take an unlimited view of the atonement, universalism is the natural view.
 
Since Jesus is quoted "When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin" yeah, you've got a sin problem that has not been resolved just by Jesus having been crucified. So then what is the fix?
 
Iniquity, the uneven distribution of judgment based on a carnal and hypocritical application of justice. Jesus, the innocent and perfect Image of God was therefore crucified by the so called servants of God. Jesus sits at the right hand of God while his enemies are made manifest.
 
Theodore A. Jones said:
Practice whay you preach. What is the answer you assume to be correct?
Click to expand...


Practice what I preach??

Nice way to engage in a dialog with someone. Rather defensive (or rude) wouldn't you say?

Nonetheless the question was, "So then, what is the fix?"

And my response was as a simple (rhetorical) question (as with any problem in life), "Identify the problem, acknowledge the Answer, and connect the two?"

Perhaps I need to break down the obvious for you (and this in response to your uncalled for comment).

The thread revolves around humanity's sin (problem) and Jesus' redemptive act (Answer). Need I say more or must the dots be connected for you also?

BTW, it's one thing to "practice what you preach", quite another to "preach what you practice". I prefer the latter.


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
did i read that right? he said that sin is no longer around? thats not what the bible says. its say the penalty is paid for at the cross. the believer must believe that his sins are paid for.

mondar. excellent post. christ died for all but atonement is for only them that believe.

this meaning that if you come to christ you are atoned and in right standing with God.
 
Bonairos said:
Perhaps it's (still) a problem (for some) ..
Click to expand...

So let me ask you... Do you believe God and humans still have a sin problem that needs to be fixed and paid for which Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary did not completely fix and atone for? Yes or No?

So in John 1:29, you don't believe the Lamb of God took away the SIN of the world? Yes or No?
 
reba said:
and that is sin
Click to expand...

So you believe it's a sin that needs to be fixed and atoned for? If yes, then how does the person fix and atone for that sin? Was Jesus' death at Calvary 2000 years ago insufficient to fix and atone for ALL THE SIN of the world from beginning to end?
 
Elijah674 said:
There are just two CONDITIONS! Obey Live or Disobey and Die!...
Click to expand...


WRONG!!! :screwloose

Salvation has nothing to do with OBEDIENCE and works, it's by FAITH AND GRACE ALONE!!!

The truth is..NOBODY can perfectly obey God, hence, we need a Saviour who did who then credits and imputes His perfect life and righteousness to us.

The gospel you are teaching is the same one that Galatians were believing:

"...Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" - Galatians 3:1-3
 
mondar said:
...I want to add that there is a way that I appreciate the OP. I cannot agree that universalism is a biblical doctrine, but I recognize that if one is going to take an unlimited view of the atonement, universalism is the natural view.
Click to expand...

Tell me mondar, in your own words. Do we have a sin problem that still needs to be fixed, atoned for and sorted out? Yes or No?

If yes, then do you deny that Jesus' birth, life and death was insufficient and incomplete to atone for the SIN OF THE WORLD? Yes or No?

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.



Note carefully: SIN is singular, not plural, indicating that Jesus TOOK AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD!!!

Do you deny this verse? Yes or No?
 
jasoncran said:
did i read that right? he said that sin is no longer around? thats not what the bible says. its say the penalty is paid for at the cross. the believer must believe that his sins are paid for.

mondar. excellent post. christ died for all but atonement is for only them that believe.

this meaning that if you come to christ you are atoned and in right standing with God.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I said "Does humanity still have a sin problem that needs fixing?"

Secondly, tell me Jason, what did John mean in 1:29 when he said the Lamb who takes away the SIN?

And please tell me what these verses mean:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

Thank you Jason, I look forward to you explaining all those verses to me. :thumbsup
 
Of course it does -

"Do you believe God and humans still have a sin problem that needs to be fixed and paid for which Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary did not completely fix and atone for? Yes or No?"

Well -- lets see -- just when you KNOW things cant get any sillier - they do!!!!

YES, of course!!!!! -

God doesn't have a "Sin problem", of course - HE's provided the Solution for EVERYBODY and anybody who places their faith in HIS provision. The vast majority of humanity will not, it appears, and Judgement for their SIN (which remains on 'em), and Hell awaits them.

Humans, of course, are ALL Sinners who've fallen short BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN, and can do NOTHING about that in and of themselves - AND WILL BURN if they simply do nothing.

Simple as that.

The "No SIN anymore" silliness IS "Whimsical" though".

Where DO people come up with garbage like this???
 
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Re: Of course it does -

Bob Carabbio said:
"Do you believe God and humans still have a sin problem that needs to be fixed and paid for which Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary did not completely fix and atone for? Yes or No?"

Well -- lets see -- just when you KNOW things cant get any sillier - they do!!!!

YES, of course!!!!! -

God doesn't have a "Sin problem", of course - HE's provided the Solution for EVERYBODY and anybody who places their faith in HIS provision. The vast majority of humanity will not, it appears, and Judgement for their SIN (which remains on 'em), and Hell awaits them.

Humans, of course, are ALL Sinners who've fallen short BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN, and can do NOTHING about that in and of themselves - AND WILL BURN if they simply do nothing.

Simple as that.

The "No SIN anymore" silliness IS "Whimsical" though".

Where DO people come up with garbage like this???
Click to expand...

Bob, firstly, no sincere born again Christian would ever belittle and berate and put down others. It's not in their hearts or spirit or nature to do so. So seeing you have done it raises concerns for you. Have you come to Christ by faith yet? Have you invited Jesus into your heart? Please do so and God will give you a heart of love and compassion and kindness towards others.

Secondly, did Jesus' death completely atone for sin? YES OR NO?

Thirdly, can you please explain what John 1:29 means and teaches?

Also, can you please tell me what these verses mean:

Hebrews 9:26 – He did away with sin on the Cross
Hebrews 9:28 - He took away the sin of the world at the Cross
Colossians 2:13 - He forgave all sins on the Cross – past present and future
Hebrews 1:3 – God cleansed all sins on the Cross
2 Cor 5:19 - God no longer counts the world’s sins against them
Hebrews 10:17-18 – God has forgiven all sins and forgotten them.
Micah 7:19 - God has thrown all our sins into the depths of the sea.

Thank you, I look forward to you explaining all those verses to me.
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
So let me ask you... Do you believe God and humans still have a sin problem that needs to be fixed and paid for which Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary did not completely fix and atone for? Yes or No?

So in John 1:29, you don't believe the Lamb of God took away the SIN of the world? Yes or No?
Click to expand...


Initially I read your OP and and responded (post #2) with my beliefs (based on your phrasing) to be a more "redemptive" problem than a "sin" problem. Obviously I was off target in the response you were looking for.

Being that you appear to be a strict "YES or NO" person, let me be clear by saying BOTH!


"Does humanity still have a sin problem that needs fixing?"

NO!, IF received. YES!, IF rejected.


My friend, there is a BIG difference between having an answer available and acting upon and BENEFITTING from that answer to solve a problem.

Does God love the entire world? Yes! Is the enitire world benefitting from His love? NO! Why not?


Let me ask you this in the terms in which you put on others.

"Do you sin as a Christian?" YES or NO.

"Are ALL your actions pleasing to God?" YES or NO.

"Would you consider displeasing God (sin) in ANY way to be a problem that needs fixing?" YES or NO.


Anyone can can pose a (strict) YES or NO question in hopes to prove(?) their point.


Perhaps you are arguing that humanity does not have a sin RESOLUTION that needs fixing.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!
 
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