Mungo
Member
See posts #2 & #6
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does marriage contracts exist in bible?
- Thread starter holy999
- Start date
There is so much to take in when you read Deuteronomy 22:13-30, but is this not about laws concerning sexual immorality? I see no marriage contract there unless I am missing it.
Thank you as I read them, but I want the scripture out of the Bible as in book and chapter as not everyone has the Tobit or the Kiddushin book. These contracts seem to be Jewish family laws, but are they actually laws that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai? Here is a Jewish website that explains marriage.
Marriage - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)
Learn about the Jewish concept of finding your soul mate, Jewish weddings, the process of acquiring a spouse, and the marital relationship.
www.jewfaq.org
Jethro Bodine
Member
"...pledged to be married..." Deuteronomy 22:23
That means not married yet, but PLEDGED to be so in the future. 'Pledged' signifying some kind of contract or obligation or oath. A legal one, for as you pointed out in your post there was an exchange of goods associated with the marital 'contract' between a man, and a woman and her father which had binding legal conditions attached to it (i.e. Exodus 22:16-17.
As part of the wedding ceremony, the husband gives the wife a ketubah. The word "Ketubah" comes from the root Kaf-Tav-Beit, meaning "writing." The ketubah is also called the marriage contract. The ketubah spells out the husband's obligations to the wife during marriage, conditions of inheritance upon his death, and obligations regarding the support of children of the marriage. It also provides for the wife's support in the event of divorce. There are standard conditions; however, additional conditions can be included by mutual agreement. Marriage agreements of this sort were commonplace in the ancient Semitic world.
Because marriage under Jewish law is essentially a private contractual agreement between a man and a woman, it does not require the presence of a rabbi or any other religious official. It is common, however, for rabbis to officiate, partly in imitation of the Christian practice and partly because the presence of a religious or civil official is required under United States civil law.
Marriage - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)
Learn about the Jewish concept of finding your soul mate, Jewish weddings, the process of acquiring a spouse, and the marital relationship.
www.jewfaq.org
Thank you as I see the wording being betrothed which is the same as pledged.
Edward
2024 Supporter
It might not be in scripture but a study of Hebrew Marriage Customs would open your eyes a lot.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I point couples who want to call themselves married without actually 'getting' married to Jesus' words in John 4:17-18
"17“I have no husband,” the woman replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are correct to say that you have no husband. 18In fact, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. You have spoken truthfully.”
You can see that Jesus makes the distinction between actually being married to someone and just having them. What constituted actually being married to someone vs. just having them in Jesus' day? We do know for certain. What we do know is there's a difference.
So, what we can glean from this is the certainty that there is, Biblically, definitely a difference between being married and just being together. And that the law governed the pledge to be married, and the marriage itself to some extent. In the Bible, there's no such thing as just calling yourself married, and that, under the law at least, marriage had binding legal implications attached to it. So, Biblically, you can be together and be married, or you can be together and not be married. There is a difference. And it involves the matter of a pledge or an oath or a contract of some kind. In our culture we know that contract to be a legal marriage license.
"17“I have no husband,” the woman replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are correct to say that you have no husband. 18In fact, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. You have spoken truthfully.”
You can see that Jesus makes the distinction between actually being married to someone and just having them. What constituted actually being married to someone vs. just having them in Jesus' day? We do know for certain. What we do know is there's a difference.
So, what we can glean from this is the certainty that there is, Biblically, definitely a difference between being married and just being together. And that the law governed the pledge to be married, and the marriage itself to some extent. In the Bible, there's no such thing as just calling yourself married, and that, under the law at least, marriage had binding legal implications attached to it. So, Biblically, you can be together and be married, or you can be together and not be married. There is a difference. And it involves the matter of a pledge or an oath or a contract of some kind. In our culture we know that contract to be a legal marriage license.
Mungo
Member
Tobit is in the Bible. And it clearly indicates it is part of the Law of Moses
The link you gave says:
Mishnah Kiddushin 1:1 specifies that a woman is acquired (i.e., to be a wife) in three ways: through money, a contract, and sexual intercourse. Ordinarily, all three of these conditions are satisfied, although only one is necessary to effect a binding marriage.
The quote I gave in post #6 says:
When the Torah was given, the Jews were instructed that in order to marry a woman, the man should "acquire her" in the presence of witnesses and then she would become his wife. As the Torah says, "when a man takes a woman and has intercourse with her." This taking is a positive commandment and is performed in one of three ways—with money, by contract, or by cohabitiation... and it is everywhere called kiddushin or erusin.
The Torah includes the law of Moses.
I realize that, but don't you think they should ll be the same according to God who specifies what they do in the Temple?
I deleted the post and well .the wire temple is the modern use .
A Jew doesn't go to Schul in the synagogue but a Temple.
Ie temple Beth Shalom, temple Beth mikveh isreal
Thank you
I don't know much about the Temple when it comes to marriage law so I think I will bow out and study this more when I get time. Thank you for your help.
I have one I can ask in person and another interrim pastor
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Eh - not exactly. There were actually 3 stages. While ketubot (marriage contracts) are not specifically referenced anywhere in scripture, they were the SOP of first century Judaism. Hundreds, if not thousands, of 2nd Temple period examples exist to our day. Our Lord refers to many steps of this process in His teachings since they were well known to everyone He spoke to.
Step 1: Arrangement
This was an agreement between parents of the couple, and usually happened when they were about age 8 or 9. From this point until the Ketubah is signed, either the boy or the girl could call it off for any or no reason.
Step 2: Betrothal
When the couple got to be about 11 or 12, the 2 families would sit down and negotiate out a contract (the Ketubah) which outlined the rights, privileges, and responsibilities of each of them. It included the "bride price" and the dowry and who would handle those funds. They were used to support the wife in case of divorce or being widowed. It included how often the bride should expect sexual satisfaction; and was based on the husband's occupation. [side note: a common law suit in 1st century Judea was to get a court order for the husband to live up to this frequency, and could require a change of jobs to allow him more time for such pursuits]
When the Ketubah was signed by all parties, a big celebration would occur, followed by the groom (at age 11 or 12) building a house/home for his new family; under the tutelage and inspection of his father. This was often an addition to his father's house.
John 14:2
In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
At this point, after the contract was signed, it took a formal divorce with a 3 rabbi panel (bet din) approving it to sever the relationship.
Step 3: Actually Married.
The final step occurred when the house was built to the father's satisfaction. This typically took about a year. Only the father could say it was ready to house a new family.
Matthew 24:36
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Then the boy would mount a white horse and go to fetch his bride. This could be Monday at 5 pm or Thursday at 3 am. No one knew exactly. So it was her duty as she sensed the time drawing near to keep an eye on road from his home. When she saw him, she would scream out "Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord!" loud enough to either call everyone in from the fields or wake them all up.
He would then take her up and ride back to the new home where they (with witnesses - usually the 2 fathers) have their first intercourse and now they are fully married. Then they had a party that would last several days, even more than a week if the families were rich enough to do that. (wedding at Cana)
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
You are correct. There is no contract there.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Pledged usually meant arranged. But it was not binding. Not a contract.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
A schul is a synagogue. There has not been a Temple since 70 ad.
Yes, while many Reform and Reconstructionist synagogues use the name "Temple," they are NOT actually a temple.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
No traditional Jew EVER considered that book part of the Tenach - the Torah, Prophets or Writings.
It is definately NOT part of the Law of Moses. That is entirely in Genesis thru Deuteronomy.
Yes, the Catholics and the Orthodox consider Tobit as part of their bible, but it should not be considered so, IMO.
The Mishnah (circa 200 ad) is the first attempt at writing the Talmuds, and was used as an outline for both the Jerusalem Talmud (400 ad) and the much longer Babylonian Talmud (circa 500 ad). As with most religious literature, they are a mixed bag of good ideas and some really bad ones. They are most useful as historical records.
Jethro Bodine
Member
We know that to not be true because Joseph sought to divorce Mary while only pledged to be married to her. That indicates that he was bound to her.
Whether he was bound by legal contract or word of oath we do know. We just know there was some form of 'contract' that bound him to her in marriage that required him to divorce her even though they were only pledged to be married. As I pointed out, a pledge signifies the presence of some kind of contractual obligation to marry her.