Does the flesh rise

[Dorothy Mae]

This should be fun.

They drank the Kool-Ade they were offered. Why do most people seem to think we were flying to, landing and walking, and roving on the moon beginning in the 1950’s? Because that’s what was served up on a spoon and consumed.

Many people believe what they are taught by rote.

It’s easier than thinking.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do you think Christ returned to Heaven in a flesh body?

I believe it’s called the resurrected body. He ate fish but could pass through doors. Sounds different.

 

[n2thelight]

I believe it’s called the resurrected body. He ate fish but could pass through doors. Sounds different.

Agreed ,however that was only because it was written His flesh would not see corruption. He was in His spiritual body when He did that ,as well as when He ascended to Heaven

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Agreed ,however that was only because it was written His flesh would not see corruption. He was in His spiritual body when He did that ,as well as when He ascended to Heaven

I think it was written because it would be so, not the other way around. The Word isn’t a playbook so God knows what to do.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God and we know not what we will be, but that we will be as Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; 1 John 3:2.

Exactly, our heavenly bodies will not contain any blood.
Just flesh and bones as Jesus has said.

Luk 24:39

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

We know that the risen body of Jesus still bore the open wounds of the nails & the spear thrust into Him.

Jhn 20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Given this statement of the Lord do you think Jesus asked that an oozing bloody hot mess be touched by the disciple ?
The Lord of Glory will eternally have the open wounds of His sacrifice with no blood.
All His blood was offered up before the Throne of God.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Do you think Christ returned to Heaven in a flesh body?

Yes.

Luk 24:39


Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[n2thelight]

I think it was written because it would be so, not the other way around. The Word isn’t a playbook so God knows what to do.

But of course it was,and it had to happen as written.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But of course it was,and it had to happen as written.

Because he knew it would happen. He writes the book not obeys it.

 

[Free]

The dead have already risen .

They certainly have not.

Act 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,
Act 1:11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” (ESV)

1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (ESV)

1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. (ESV)

1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. (ESV)

2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
2Ti 2:17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2Ti 2:18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

Clearly this is speaking of a future event. Since Jesus has not returned, the resurrection of the dead has not happened. Notice in 2 Timothy, that not only is it explicitly stated that the resurrection had not happened, but that teaching that it has, is tied to "ungodliness" and swerving "from the truth," which is evidence that one is not "rightly handling the word of truth."

Not only that, nowhere in the NT is it even implied that the dead have been raised, despite numerous mentions of Jesus having been raised. The resurrection of everyone else is always spoken of as a future event at the summation of all things when Christ returns.

Can't help you with Paul's writing's as he clearly indicates that we have two bodies .

Nowhere does Paul or any other writer in the entire Bible even suggest that we have two bodies.

1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
...
1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. (ESV)

We have one body which is sown perishable and mortal and then raised imperishable and immortal. One body, two different states. Just as the dead will at that time be raised imperishable, so too, will those who are alive "be changed" and also be made imperishable. Not a single word about a second body or removing of the flesh.

Do you think Christ returned to Heaven in a flesh body?

Isn't that what I said: "He is still truly God and truly man, with his "spiritualized," physical resurrection body"? Our bodies will be like Christ's--physical, yet somehow changed to be imperishable, immortal. He will return from heaven in the same way he went up. There is nothing in the entirety of the NT which states Jesus somehow lost his physical body prior to, or after, returning to heaven. To suggest such a thing would be mere speculation.

 

[for_his_glory]

Exactly, our heavenly bodies will not contain any blood.
Just flesh and bones as Jesus has said.

Luk 24:39

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

We know that the risen body of Jesus still bore the open wounds of the nails & the spear thrust into Him.

Jhn 20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Given this statement of the Lord do you think Jesus asked that an oozing bloody hot mess be touched by the disciple ?
The Lord of Glory will eternally have the open wounds of His sacrifice with no blood.
All His blood was offered up before the Throne of God.

First when Jesus showed himself to Thomas, the wounds were not an oozy and bloody hot mess as you described as He was cleaned up before being wrapped in cloth and laid in the tomb.

BTW, His whole body was a bloody hot mess from all the beatings He received and a crown of thorns rammed into His head

Second, if you think we will be raised up in this fleshly body and caught up to Christ, what about all the bodies that have deteriorated and have turn to dust.

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We will be raised with new glorified bodies like what Jesus has and not with our fleshly bodies.

 

[n2thelight]

Because he knew it would happen. He writes the book not obeys it.

Yes He did know it would happen ,but that was written first ,and yes He did have to obey it .
That being said ,not understanding your point .

 

[n2thelight]

Nowhere does Paul or any other writer in the entire Bible even suggest that we have two bodies.

1corin15

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you. Try again

 

[tdidymas]

1corin15

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you. Try again

The nature of what he is saying in that context is that they are not simultaneous, but at different times. At present it is a natural body. In the resurrection, which is a future event, it will be CHANGED to a spiritual body.

But you are advocating that we now have a spiritual body, but the text doesn't say that, in fact, it implies quite the contrary. We are in the sown stage, not the raised stage.

 

[n2thelight]

Isn't that what I said: "He is still truly God and truly man, with his "spiritualized," physical resurrection body"? Our bodies will be like Christ's--physical, yet somehow changed to be imperishable, immortal. He will return from heaven in the same way he went up. There is nothing in the entirety of the NT which states Jesus somehow lost his physical body prior to, or after, returning to heaven. To suggest such a thing would be mere speculation.

1corin15

I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." You need to understand the book you quoting from 1corin15 Paul is saying that you can count on this for a fact. Flesh and blood cannot be part of the Kingdom of God. Your flesh body is going to drive you to sin and that is its nature. When you are under the nature of your flesh body, it will not allow your inner man to control you. There is no way that flesh and blood can become part of the kingdom of God. As long as you are in your flesh body, you simply cannot keep from breaking part of the laws of God. Your mind is incapable of retaining all the law, and applying it to every moment of your life. This is why we have repentance, and it is also why flesh and blood will not be here when Jesus Christ's kingdom is established here on earth for the Millennium kingdom. What may I ask kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman? Next ,do you think we are created at conception ?

 

[n2thelight]

The nature of what he is saying in that context is that they are not simultaneous, but at different times. At present it is a natural body. In the resurrection, which is a future event, it will be CHANGED to a spiritual body.

But you are advocating that we now have a spiritual body, but the text doesn't say that, in fact, it implies quite the contrary. We are in the sown stage, not the raised stage.

Will put this question to you, when were we individually created ,and also what kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman?

 

[n2thelight]

1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.

How does He bring them with Him if they are not already there ?,Why do you think the living can't precede them ,those who are sleep(dead)

Here are the people that return with Him

revelation6

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:" These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven. Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth." Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything. Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." What kind of body do these saints have ? You actually think they need or even want that flesh body back ? When Moses and Elijah stood on the mount with Christ ,were they waiting to come get their flesh bodies ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

We will be raised with new glorified bodies like what Jesus has and not with our fleshly bodies.

Exactly what Jesus said and what I repeated .
Just like Jesus our Resurrection bodies have flesh and bones, but will not contain any blood.


Luk 24:39
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." ( Consecrated Life )

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes He did know it would happen ,but that was written first ,and yes He did have to obey it .
That being said ,not understanding your point .

If we write out a shopping list, it doesn’t mean we now obey the shopping list. The Word or list is a servant, not the Master. In your thinking it becomes the Master. God doesn’t “obey” his Word although he keeps it.

 

[n2thelight]

If we write out a shopping list, it doesn’t mean we now obey the shopping list. The Word or list is a servant, not the Master. In your thinking it becomes the Master. God doesn’t “obey” his Word although he keeps it.

God is His Word ,If He writes out that shopping list and tells us we will have everything on that shopping list when He returns ,He must obey that(His)own shopping list, if not He lied , and that He can't do.

 

[Edward]

So what I see here is a contradiction of scripture ,yet we know God don't make mistakes .

So let's go to 1Th

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

Here's the subject ,those who have died

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Do you think the spirits that Christ went and preached to for 3 days after His death were just spirits without substance?

We have TWO bodies (flesh, spirit) at death or at the return of Christ, whichever comes first, we step out of the flesh ,NEVER to EVER need it again

Why do you think the birds will eat the flesh of kings

Revelation 19:17 "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;"

Revelation 19:18 "That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great."

This is what the prophet Ezekiel wrote about in Ezekiel 39:17.

Ezekiel 39:17 "And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to My sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood."


Ezekiel 39:18 "Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan."

I mean ,it even grieved God that He made man flesh, why would one think that we would ever need it again ?

We will return to the body that we had before being born of woman ​

I believe you stopped reading too soon in 1 Corinthians 15

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?.../

So if our spirit goes to be with God when we die, and God brings our spirit with Him when He returns...

What gets raised up when He comes back? What mortal aspect of us still needs raised?