Does the flesh rise

[Dorothy Mae]

God is His Word ,If He writes out that shopping list and tells us we will have everything on that shopping list when He returns ,He must obey that(His)own shopping list, if not He lied , and that He can't do.

Well, if you insist one seeing the matter like this, I won’t be able to convince you that this is not how He sees it. He is always the Master. His Word accomplishes what He intended but is always the servant, never the ruler.

 

[tdidymas]

Will put this question to you, when were we individually created ,and also what kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman?

"God is spirit..."
Therefore, having a "spiritual body" in a Christophany was a temporary event and miraculous. Let's just say for argument's sake that it was a "permanent" body. Then, did it shrink to a single cell at conception? What was its size in the womb? I think if you are implying that, it's not tenable.

When we were individually created, we were "weaved" during gestation (Ps. 136). In regard to the spiritual part, there is nothing in scripture that says or implies we have a spiritual body at the same time, so to claim that would be conjecture. Like I said, the spiritual body is created in the future at the resurrection (1 Cor. 15).

 

[for_his_glory]

Exactly what Jesus said and what I repeated .
Just like Jesus our Resurrection bodies have flesh and bones, but will not contain any blood.


Luk 24:39
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." ( Consecrated Life )

1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cor 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (read the full context from vs. 35-49)

There is a difference between the natural sinful fleshly body and the sinless spiritual body as none of us knows what we will look like, but will be like the body of Christ when we see Him come in all His glory.

 

[Free]

1corin15

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you. Try again

You said: "Can't help you with Paul's writing's as he clearly indicates that we have two bodies ."

We do not have two bodies. We have one body that gets changed--it is physical and that is all it currently is. When Christ returns those who are dead will be raised in a physical body but changed to be immortal and imperishable (those alive will have their physical bodies changed to be immortal and imperishable). That is very clearly what Paul is saying--"sown" and "raised." And that seems to be the same type of body that Jesus has.

1corin15

I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." You need to understand the book you quoting from 1corin15 Paul is saying that you can count on this for a fact. Flesh and blood cannot be part of the Kingdom of God. Your flesh body is going to drive you to sin and that is its nature. When you are under the nature of your flesh body, it will not allow your inner man to control you. There is no way that flesh and blood can become part of the kingdom of God. As long as you are in your flesh body, you simply cannot keep from breaking part of the laws of God. Your mind is incapable of retaining all the law, and applying it to every moment of your life. This is why we have repentance, and it is also why flesh and blood will not be here when Jesus Christ's kingdom is established here on earth for the Millennium kingdom.

You are teaching Gnosticism and that is heresy. Be careful in how the Bible uses "flesh" as it often refers to the sinful nature of man and not his actual physical flesh.

What may I ask kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman? Next ,do you think we are created at conception ?

Jesus, the Son of God, did not have a body prior to conception and birth. And, yes, we are created at conception. Those are both things the Bible clearly teaches.

 

[Free]

How does He bring them with Him if they are not already there ?,Why do you think the living can't precede them ,those who are sleep(dead)

Here are the people that return with Him

revelation6

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:" These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven. Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth." Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything. Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." What kind of body do these saints have ? You actually think they need or even want that flesh body back ? When Moses and Elijah stood on the mount with Christ ,were they waiting to come get their flesh bodies ?

And, yet, as I have pointed out Paul clearly says that the dead in Christ are raised and that the resurrection has not happened but will happen at Christ's return. There is no getting around that.

Act 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Act 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. (ESV)

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. (ESV)

Note the future tense of all of Paul's writing regarding the resurrection and the resurrection body, which is also consistent throughout the entirety of Scripture.

Consider what Daniel says:

Dan 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (ESV)

Compare that with Rev 20:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

The resurrection happens at the Judgement, when Christ returns.

It doesn't matter what people may or may not want; it matters what the Bible says will happen.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It has always been very telling to me that Mary did not recognize the risen Lord by sight , mistaking Him to be the gardener, but only recognized Him by voice
I believe this is clear indication of the dramatic change that occurs in the resurrected body .
She was not the only one who failed to recognize Him by sight after He had risen.

Jhn 20:15
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Jhn 20:16
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

 

[n2thelight]

Well, if you insist one seeing the matter like this, I won’t be able to convince you that this is not how He sees it. He is always the Master. His Word accomplishes what He intended but is always the servant, never the ruler.

Again I'm not understanding you, He is the Word , so no you won't convince me how He see's it .

What He said must come to pass as written ,you can call it servant master or whatever

 

[n2thelight]

And, yet, as I have pointed out Paul clearly says that the dead in Christ are raised and that the resurrection has not happened but will happen at Christ's return. There is no getting around that.

You keep going back to that , yet how do you reconcile those whom He brings with Him

Do a study on the resurrection meaning ,as there are more than one

 

[n2thelight]

And, yet, as I have pointed out Paul clearly says that the dead in Christ are raised and that the resurrection has not happened but will happen at Christ's return. There is no getting around that.

Act 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Act 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. (ESV)

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. (ESV)

Note the future tense of all of Paul's writing regarding the resurrection and the resurrection body, which is also consistent throughout the entirety of Scripture.

Consider what Daniel says:

Dan 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (ESV)

Compare that with Rev 20:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

The resurrection happens at the Judgement, when Christ returns.

It doesn't matter what people may or may not want; it matters what the Bible says will happen.

The problem is what you think of, as the dead .

Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us.

Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only.

Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word.

To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand.

If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Again I'm not understanding you, He is the Word , so no you won't convince me how He see's it .

The Word is not him. And He speaks the word. The word goes out, as a servant, to accomplish his will with the power given.

What He said must come to pass as written ,you can call it servant master or whatever

Words matter. A servant is not a master.

 

[n2thelight]

The Word is not him. And He speaks the word. The word goes out, as a servant, to accomplish his will with the power given.

Words matter. A servant is not a master.

In the beginning was the Word
Yes words do matter especially His

Scripture must come to pass as written period...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

In the beginning was the Word
Yes words do matter especially His

Scripture must come to pass as written period...

It’s the servant.

 

[n2thelight]

It’s the servant.

Who's the servant ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Who's the servant ?

The Word sent to accomplish His will. It’s isn’t the driving force telling God what to do next.

And a word of caution. The “God cannot lie so He is forced to do what I say He has to do,” is not a good position to take.

 

[n2thelight]

The Word sent to accomplish His will. It’s isn’t the driving force telling God what to do next.

And a word of caution. The “God cannot lie so He is forced to do what I say He has to do,” is not a good position to take.

It's no next ,other than the Word, which is written and must come to pass as written

So please help me understand what ur saying. Are yu separating the Word, whom is Chrst from God ?
No caution, God cannot lie ,period.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's no next ,other than the Word, which is written and must come to pass as written

So please help me understand what ur saying. Are yu separating the Word, whom is Chrst from God ?
No caution, God cannot lie ,period.

There is a difference between God fulfilling His Word given and people themselves deciding what God had to be promising and then thinking they have him cornered whereby he has to do what they expect. This is typically seen in claiming a “promising” minus the part they must fulfill. They repeat the promise and insist God “cannot lie” so He has to do what they say or else!!!. They become the Master and He the servant.

The Word is written because He had decided to do that. The Word in that case only communicates his plan to us.

 

[Free]

You keep going back to that , yet how do you reconcile those whom He brings with Him

Because that is what Paul consistently says, in complete agreement with the rest of Scripture.

1Co 15:20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. (ESV)

Do a study on the resurrection meaning ,as there are more than one

As far as getting resurrection bodies, there are two, at the end of time when Christ returns. The first is for those who are martyred, whose souls are under the alter (whatever that means), and the second is for the rest of humankind, believers and unbelievers.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. (ESV)

 

[Free]

The problem is what you think of, as the dead .

Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us.

Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only.

Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word.

To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand.

If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions.

You're not actually addressing anything that Paul says. Paul talks of one resurrection for both the just and the unjust. It is also consistent with what Jesus said:

Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. (ESV)

Jesus said when he returns, all will be gathered before him and he will separate the sheep from the goats, the believers from the unbelievers.

With regard to "the books" and "the book of life," if, as you claim, "The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration," then what is the point of the book of life? If faith isn't the issue, then all the dead would be unsaved and the book of life being opened would be pointless. Rather, we should consider what James says:

Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. (ESV)

This is why the book of life is opened. Everyone's works are judged and works are the proof of who had genuine faith.

 

[n2thelight]

There is a difference between God fulfilling His Word given and people themselves deciding what God had to be promising and then thinking they have him cornered whereby he has to do what they expect. This is typically seen in claiming a “promising” minus the part they must fulfill. They repeat the promise and insist God “cannot lie” so He has to do what they say or else!!!. They become the Master and He the servant.

The Word is written because He had decided to do that. The Word in that case only communicates his plan to us.

I understand that, as scripture clearly states He will if you do what He ask of you .
What's asked of you is found in His Word

So (IF)you do what is written ,He cannot lie .

Don't care what people think , my point is ,what's written will happen as written

 

[n2thelight]

You're not actually addressing anything that Paul says. Paul talks of one resurrection for both the just and the unjust. It is also consistent with what Jesus said:

Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. (ESV)

Jesus said when he returns, all will be gathered before him and he will separate the sheep from the goats, the believers from the unbelievers.

With regard to "the books" and "the book of life," if, as you claim, "The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration," then what is the point of the book of life? If faith isn't the issue, then all the dead would be unsaved and the book of life being opened would be pointless. Rather, we should consider what James says:

Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. (ESV)

This is why the book of life is opened. Everyone's works are judged and works are the proof of who had genuine faith.

Yes that's the first resurrection ,however those in Christ at that resurrection don't have to worry about the 2nd death , those not in Christ at His return do.

The White throne judgement happens at the end of the millennium .Let me stop here for a sec, question , do you think people will be born during the millennium ?