Double standard: No-Pressure on the devout.

[Pebbles]

This is somthing I've noticed both with you and right wing media outlets in general and I'd think I'd share this observation with you.

In the event where a Muslim fundimentalist extremeist attacks a western nation, Christian conservatives including yourselves are often quick to denounce not only the extremist but also the views they hold and in doing so you extend it beyond the simple values held by the attacker and extend it to the entire religion of islam and I have seen on numerous places on this forum where you all recite how dangerous a religion islam is for the reason above.

Yet recently a christian fundimentalist has commited a terrorist act in Norway, I needn't go into intense detail as it was already highlighted in the news section, I notice how you didn't mention his religion.
you can read his manifesto he uploaded his rambling thoughts online and I have read it he clearly belives the christian god is behind him and he accuses the typical groups for the decay of the moral fabric of socioty, Marxists, Homosexuals, Liberals, and most of all Muslims.

Really this murderer should be the poster child for fox news but he's not.
a fair number of you on this forum would superfically empathize with his values, I'm not calling you serial killers it's just that his values are derived from the same core as yours.

Yet you as a communty of christians refuse to accept that your own moral code can when implaced in a paranoid mind give rise to this dark act. And I know what you'll say...

"Well he isn't a christian he isn't anything like us we have not responciblity"
‪Norway Shooter not Christian: Anders Behring Breivik; Not Extremist or Christian‬‏ - YouTube

I've seen this before you did it to ME personally when I told you my own story for the pain I've faced at the hands of christians.
You just told me that my attackers arn't christians therefore you or the views you espouse arn't in any way responcible.

It's a double standard you refuse to accept that a "real-christian" who shares many of your values could be so vicious. thus cover yourselves saying they arn't real.

But you don't get it my attackers this lunatic the hundreds of thousands of other violent lunatics who would kill me and others like me, THEY ARE christians they sit in your pews listen to the same preists and when you say things like that simply dismissing your religions involvement and influence on their own moral devlopment to protect yourself you are actually PROTECTING them and others like them by defending their justifications as they commit the act. and avoiding espousing scrutiny for this group and others.

 

[FrustratedForumer]

One simply calling themselves a Christian does not one make!

 

[WIP]

I don't know enough about the attacker or his motives to reply to your accusations. I do know that Islam by design considers us to be something that should be destroyed. On the other hand Christianity, not necessarily christians (lower case intentional), do not consider non-believers as something that should be destroyed. Quite the contrary. Our belief is that all persons should be saved.

You seem to be confusing professing christians vs. Christians. For more in depth explaination refer to my signature statement.

 

[Nacho]

One simply calling themselves a Christian does not one make!

Amen!!!!

 

[reba]

The Christian world does not support those who say they are Christian and do such things as happen in Norway.

The muslem world supports the terrorist.


I know there are exceptions. Over all my statements are not out of line.

 

[Christ_empowered]

People who are radical, potentially violent, and possibly un-well often use religion (Christianity included) to justify their beliefs and/or actions. With Christianity, they're clearly out-of-line; Christianity is a non-violent religion that teaches us to be at peace with others (believer and unbelievers alike) and to "turn the other cheek"

Islam, not so much. I'd love to be all tolerant and what not and say that Islam is just as good as Christianity and just as valid and its just a few individuals here and there who do terrible things in the name of their religion, but I don't believe that to be the case. Islam has an element of violence at its core. Christianity does not.

 

[handy]

Pebbles,

I hear what you're saying and I know that this comes from both high profile incidents as well as a personal attack upon you...you're quite justified in your observations here.

As are those here who are trying to point out that no...if one does these things one is not a Christian.

There's an old saying within the Body...sitting in a church doesn't make one a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes one a Buick.

There's a lot of truth in that saying.

So, is there a double standard?

Or, is Islam a religion that calls its followers to peace and love (however much some might fall short) and is Christianity a religion that calls its followers to peace and love (however much some might fall short.)

You're intelligent Pebbles, so I know that you understand that there are extremists in anything...religion, political views...even soccer fans.

So, one shouldn't judge a religion based upon what a religious extremist does...but what the general teaching of the religion is.

Christianity tells us that God loves all the world...that He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world...that we are to love one another...that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves...that we are to pray for those who persecute us.

Frankly, I don't know that much about Islam to know exactly what Mohammad the prophet says Allah wants the Islamic folks to do. I do know that jihad is a religious war and Christianity has no call to jihad. The children of Israel of the Old Testament were called to exterminate the inhabitants of the land they moved into...but not for the purpose of converting them...there was no call to "convert or die", just that they were to be killed. Ugly? You bet. But, while that is part of the Christian heritage, it is not any part of Christianity itself. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus, nor any of the apostles call anyone to arms to defend or to spread the faith.

Did Christians do this anyway? Yep...that's also part of the Christian heritage...when the Church decided that it would try the whole thing of "convert or die"...when it was intrinsically entwined with the state. And, this wasn't just a "Catholic" failing...what the Protestants did to the Catholics, Anabaptists and the unbelievers was just as bad as the Catholic Inquisition.

The key here is that we Christians can point out clearly that anyone who would act like this Breivik is just as wrong about his "christianity" as the crusaders of old were...they are acting totally opposite of what the Scriptures instruct us to do...as were the guys who attacked you.

Perhaps you or someone else can quote the Koran where it states to love the world, where it states to pray for those who persecute them, that there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for another. Perhaps those teachings are in there, and the Muslim extremists are just as wrong about their religion as Breivik is about his.

The bottom line is that a Christian isn't someone who acts upon the words of the New Testament anyway. A Christian is someone whose old life of sin is dead and gone and they live a new life, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, in Christ. No matter what "religion" one says one has...if one isn't regenerated by the Holy Spirit...one is not a Christian. And, if one is regenerated by the Holy Spirit...one will not go on a murder spree anymore than one would attack a transgendered person.

This is why, in almost every church on any corner in the entire world...true Christians and "christians" sit side by side. Jesus talked about this in a little parable about the tares and the wheat.

 

[Mike]

I think we need Christians to be louder than we are about these horrors and denounce the the Christian angle. We should separate these madmen from our faith as best we can. I've always said this about the Westborough church.

Pebbles, I believe the reason we can separate Christians from acts like this is because we know what Christianity stands for, and it isn't violence against the innocent. It isn't hard to find websites dedicated to ex-Muslims who state that their former religion promotes violence. You don't see huge Christian factions eager to claim responsibility when tragedy occurs.

 

[Classik]

Pebbles,

I hear what you're saying and I know that this comes from both high profile incidents as well as a personal attack upon you...you're quite justified in your observations here.

As are those here who are trying to point out that no...if one does these things one is not a Christian.

There's an old saying within the Body...sitting in a church doesn't make one a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes one a Buick.

There's a lot of truth in that saying.

So, is there a double standard?

Or, is Islam a religion that calls its followers to peace and love (however much some might fall short) and is Christianity a religion that calls its followers to peace and love (however much some might fall short.)

You're intelligent Pebbles, so I know that you understand that there are extremists in anything...religion, political views...even soccer fans.

So, one shouldn't judge a religion based upon what a religious extremist does...but what the general teaching of the religion is.

Christianity tells us that God loves all the world...that He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world...that we are to love one another...that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves...that we are to pray for those who persecute us.

Frankly, I don't know that much about Islam to know exactly what Mohammad the prophet says Allah wants the Islamic folks to do. I do know that jihad is a religious war and Christianity has no call to jihad. The children of Israel of the Old Testament were called to exterminate the inhabitants of the land they moved into...but not for the purpose of converting them...there was no call to "convert or die", just that they were to be killed. Ugly? You bet. But, while that is part of the Christian heritage, it is not any part of Christianity itself. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus, nor any of the apostles call anyone to arms to defend or to spread the faith.

Did Christians do this anyway? Yep...that's also part of the Christian heritage...when the Church decided that it would try the whole thing of "convert or die"...when it was intrinsically entwined with the state. And, this wasn't just a "Catholic" failing...what the Protestants did to the Catholics, Anabaptists and the unbelievers was just as bad as the Catholic Inquisition.

The key here is that we Christians can point out clearly that anyone who would act like this Breivik is just as wrong about his "christianity" as the crusaders of old were...they are acting totally opposite of what the Scriptures instruct us to do...as were the guys who attacked you.

Perhaps you or someone else can quote the Koran where it states to love the world, where it states to pray for those who persecute them, that there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for another. Perhaps those teachings are in there, and the Muslim extremists are just as wrong about their religion as Breivik is about his.

The bottom line is that a Christian isn't someone who acts upon the words of the New Testament anyway. A Christian is someone whose old life of sin is dead and gone and they live a new life, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, in Christ. No matter what "religion" one says one has...if one isn't regenerated by the Holy Spirit...one is not a Christian. And, if one is regenerated by the Holy Spirit...one will not go on a murder spree anymore than one would attack a transgendered person.

This is why, in almost every church on any corner in the entire world...true Christians and "christians" sit side by side. Jesus talked about this in a little parable about the tares and the wheat.

You just won the noble price! Good response.
Not all christians are born again. The fake ones (forgive me for that expression) who found themselves among the true christians are not suppose to be called christians at all - they are ordinary People. So it is aberration to conclude: 'the christians did...'

Hehe Noble price winner.