Yes I did...spell check can't replace proof reading.
Maybe you can provide scripture that supports your assertion here. I have given you scripture which you have ignored and not addressed.
Interesting since suite means a group of like things. Suit means to fit your purposes. I already provided my proof that they did not eat of the Tree of Life. Absence of proof is not proof of absence which is what you are trying to prove. By saying that there isn't a scripture that says that they did eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life means that they did. If that were the case then Genesis 3:22 is a contradiction since it shows that they did not eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life. They were thrown out of the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating it. Of course, Stan, you know more all about the Hebraic teachings then all of the rabbis in existence since the time of Joshua.
And as I showed you, Gen 3:22 doesn't say they did NOT eat from the Tree of Life, it says they should not be allowed to eat from it, in addition to the tree of knowledge. You assume, up to that point, they hadn't eaten from the Tree of Life, yet it is clear in Gen 3 that they were IN the middle of the garden, at the tree of knowledge when Eve was tempted. You assume they had not already eaten from the Tree of Life. Just because something is NOT in the Bible, doesn't mean it DIDN'T happen. With that kind of reasoning, nobody in the Bible emptied their bladders or bowels. This as well as eating were natural human functions, and human nature would dictate they had their hunger when God created them.
We do NOT live under Rabbinical tradition nor the TNK. When you espouse something as Biblically true, you should at least quote some of the Bible to support your assertions. You don't here.
I do not assume. I know that they did not eat of the Tree of Life since Genesis 3:22 states that they did not and were removed from the Garden by God to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life. Absence of proof is proof of absence right?
I did quote the Bible to support my position, which is Genesis 3:22. Genesis 3:22 states that God prohibited Adam and Eve from eating of the Tree of Life to keep them from gaining physical immortality. You have yet to prove through scripture that humans were created to be physically immortal.
There are two different types of Judaism. You seem to be under the impression that I am talking about the post-temple rabbinical variety. I am not. I am referring to temple Judaism that Yeshua the Messiah was familiar with and taught in accordance to it. Do you have something against Yeshua being a rabbi that taught Judaism and Christianity being a Judaic sect?
Genesis 2:17 says nothing like you want it to say. It only references that they were not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It doesn't say that they ate from the Tree of Life like you so desperately want it to.
It is funny, seeing you read verse 1 and can't even bother to read verse 2, where it clearly states;
On either side of the river was <sup class="crossreference" value='(G)'></sup> the tree of life, bearing twelve <sup class="footnote" value='[c]'></sup>kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. The way you read the Bible in this case, could be why you do NOT really understand this issue. You seem to look only for words that will support your beliefs. This is called eisegesis, and is NOT the way to properly divide the word of truth. You need to use proper Hermeneutical Exegesis when you read and study God's Word.
Arrogance does not suit you. Do not presume to lecture me on Biblical interpretation since you obviously need a few lessons yourself. Mainly in not putting something into scripture that is not there to support your little man-made doctrine that Adam and Eve were created immortal and to ignore the fact that Christianity is a Judaic sect.
You are right here. I use the NIV and also checked the KJV. I should have checked the NASB. In any event, it is used in place of the word 'grave' or 'Hades'. This is confirmed in Rev 20:12-13. It is also NOT the word used in Luke 16:23, where the NASB uses the word 'Hades', as does the NIV. Jesus said in Luke 8:10;
“<sup class="crossreference" value='(I)'></sup>To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that <sup class="crossreference" value='(J)'></sup>seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand. I am NOT the LORD, but I know how to read the word, and the Holy Spirit in me makes it real and confirms His word. Are you filled with the Holy Spirit, as instructed in Acts 19:1-6
You will not find Sheol in the New Testament for a very simple reason. Sheol is a Hebrew word and the New Testament is written in Greek, although there is the Psitta Bible written in Aramaic. The Greek word that is used in the New Testament for Sheol is Hades. Hades, the way that Paul and other New Testament writers defined it, meant the exact same thing as Sheol.
So now you're denying the fact that Yeshua is God manifested in the flesh. Great... any more heresies you have in store for us?
Are you NOT a Christian? You seem to feel your so-called convictions supersede Jesus' words. BTW, why do you use the Hebrew names all the time when He was clearly called Jesus in the NT?
I am a Christian. My God-given convictions do not supersede Yeshua's words. I adhere to Yeshua's words along with the Word of God in its entirety.
Speaking of Biblical scholarship... I used Hebrew names, like Yeshua, because that is His name in Hebrew. Yeshua was born Hebrew, raised Hebrew, and taught Judaism because He was a rabbi when He was doing His earthly ministry. Jesus is the transliteration of Isous in the Greek manuscripts which in turn is a transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua. Now in the Psitta Bible Jesus is clearly called Yeshua since that is what His name is in Hebrew. Got a problem with the fact that Yeshua is a Jew?
My convictions came about from my submission to the Lord and His conviction in my life.
Jesus was addressing the Sadducees question in verses 24-28 here, and He answered in verse 30. Then He addressed their lack of understanding of whose God was the God of, in verse 32 where He says; "He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” <sup class="versenum"></sup> We are NOT under the OT or OC, or the old Hebraic teachings. We are under the teachings of the NT and the Holy Spirit. The OT/OC has not power or sway over Christians. God does use it to communicate with us as to His character if we are keen enough to distinguish Him between the Mosaic/Judaic laws. Heb 4:12.
Yes, He was talking to the Sadduccees in those verses. That was never my point of contention. Reread what I said to understand my statement. Yeshua is God manifested in the flesh and would have seen the conversation take place between Abraham and the rich man in Sheol.
You'd be mistaken since you presume that Mosaic Law is one set of Laws. It is not, but it is two sets of laws broken evenly. The first set, which Yeshua fulfilled, is the law of atonement ie ceremonial sacrifice. The second set is civil/moral laws. The second set He did not fulfill, unless you are saying that murder, theft, adultery, etc... are all okay to perform now by Christians. Yeshua fulfilled the ceremonial law by His death, burial, and resurrection for the final atonement of sins.
You seem to have a problem with plain English. Read what I said again. Are you now trying to tell us that these people who were resurrected at the time Jesus died on the cross, were zombies?! I never claimed anything about them going to heaven, but again not surprising you think this based on your stated understanding of scripture so far.
I never said any such thing. Maybe you need to reread what I said again because I clearly stated that they were raised again, but did not go to heaven like you claimed. The holy men that were raised from the dead when Yeshua died went to Jerusalem.
This verse is talking about Christians being resurrected, first. I don't know where you got the idea that I said Paul was talking about when they died. My quotes were about the different times the NT refers to resurrection. Again you need to pay attention.
I never said that they were resurrected when they died. I have clearly maintained the same position that when a person dies they go to either the Paradise or Darkness side of Sheol. Take your own advice and stop being holier than thou.
Jesus never taught a SINGLE resurrection. That is your understanding but NOT what scripture says. Also the NT never uses the word separation, YOU do. It also doesn't use the words 'spiritual death', YOU do. The fact that you have never supplied a single verse to support this concept makes it very clear whose doctrine this is. Life has to do with the body. Eternal Life has to do with bodily immortality.
Eternal punishment has to do with the spirit/soul.
You might want to check John 5:28-30 since Yeshua did teach the final resurrection.
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
Actually, the New Testament does teach eternal separation between man and God. Matthew 25:41-43 is a good starting point.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘
Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
Yeshua makes it pretty darn clear that this is eternal separation between man and God for those that are unrighteous and will end up in the Lake of Fire.
I bet you don't even know what those three books are called?
As far as the verse I gave, which ones referred to the final judgement? Pretty sure Matthew 27 doesn't. I believe 1 Thess 4 doesn't.
Rev 20:5 is NOT the judgement seat resurrection, it is the FIRST resurrection for those who rule with Jesus in the 1000 year millennium. Read the verse, it clearly says; "This is the first resurrection."
It is Genesis 1 and 2 that overlap, NOT 1 and 3....again you don't pay attention.
Holier than thou attitude. I actually do know what books those verses about Jairus' daughter. Matthew 9:18-26, Mark 5:21-43, and Luke 8:40-56. In fact, I even gave you those verses in the post you just quoted.
Backpedaling on Matthew 27 since I stated that it didn't have to do with resurrection and going to heaven. The holy men that were raised from the dead went into Jerusalem aka Holy City.
You might want to look into the events of Revelations to correlate them with what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Revelation 20:11-15
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Same event, different authors and books, but nonetheless the very same event. It's the final judgment. Note the use of Hades in verse 13 of Revelation 20. What do you know Sheol is still there at final judgment, until God throws it into the Lake of Fire. Paul uses the phrase 'sleep' in 1 Thessalonians 4 since that is essentially what a person's body does when when it dies. The original Greek word is koimao which means metaphorically to still, calm, quiet, to fall asleep, to sleep, or to die. Their souls reside either in paradise or darkness until final judgment, but very much spiritually alive while they are physically dead.
I'm sorry but your complete lack of properly seeing what is in God's Word, does NOT make for a conducive and constructive conversation, so I will bow out of this now. You have been properly instructed.
Holier than thou attitude does not suit a Christian. I rebuke your unChristian-like behavior in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ out of love and respect, so you can learn from others without judging them. Remember Matthew 7:1-5 says judge not or you will be judged in the same way you have judged others. You have judged me very harshly, so it is my Christian duty to rebuke you for it and to point out the error of your ways.
satan the serpent lied & [without the Plan of Salvation being brought forth] mankind were in fact gone from eternity from their first death on.
means what FORUM, that God is Love??:seehearspeak
