Doug Batchelor's contradiction on eternal hell fire

[precepts]

Last Sunday, May 27, Doug Batchelor tried to address my post on eternal hell fire subliminally. This is my response.



Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal, Christ would have suffered eternal hell fire during his 3 days in the grave, contradicting his earlier statements of there not being any life in the grave, but that the dead were asleep. The fact that there's no life in the grave is one of his major points during these broadcasts, yet he claims when Christ died, he descended into hell "to visit the prisoners in hell," a popular doctrine among pastors. This is a direct contradiction to scripture.



His second erroneous statement was "why would God make Satan immortal?" Can you believe that? He actually made that statement on tv!



The fact is, Satan and all the angels are immortal, thus my unanswered question of how does immortality put on mortality, dying in the lake of fire? The lake of fire was created for the Devil and his angels as the death for immortal beings, eternal confinement! Christ died to make mankind immortal. The question is where will you spend your eternity.



To claim God is unjust for creating the second death proves one's ignorance of the facts. Instead of trying to judge God, maybe you should get all the facts before trying to convict others with your unfactual doctrines! Get the facts!!!



To associate the fact of Christ dying for all mankind with Satan's lie in the garden of Eden is straight up childish and unchristian-like. It's unsound and down right personal, bordering on slander!



I can't wait to hear his response!

 

[CalledToServe]

Well, I hope that you get the answers you seek, but it sounds to me like he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

However, there are a few things that you are incorrect about that I would like to address. According to scripture there are three Hells; confusing statement I know but bear with me. In the Old Testament you have Sheol, in Greek they rendered it as Hades, which is divided into two parts. The first part is usually translated as paradise and the second is the pit. Paradise is where people go when they die and they fulfilled their duty under Mosaic or Messianic law. The pit is where those that failed to live up to their duty under Mosaic or Messianic law. This is where people go when they die until the Day of Judgment. The final Hell, Lake of Fire will not exist one moment sooner than the Day of Judgment. Basically, Paradise is for the saved and the Pit is for the unsaved. The unsaved and the fallen angels will all end up in the Lake of Fire on the Day of Judgment.

Now since I've explained the three Hells, I guess I'll take time to explain the two Heavens or what people think is Heaven. Paradise has been known to be Heaven through misunderstanding. It is not Heaven since no one will enter the gates of Heaven until the Day of Judgment. Heaven is the place where God lives at with the angelic host, so He cannot possibly reside in Paradise.

When Christ died, He went to Sheol to snatch the keys of death, specifically He went to the Pit. Death here is not a physical death, but rather a spiritual one. He claimed the keys so that as Christians we will go through His sacrifice to enter into Heaven at final judgment.

The next point you touch on is that "Christ died to make mankind immortal." This is unscriptural since mankind was always born mortal.

Genesis 3: 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.â€

As evidenced from Genesis man was created to be mortal, but we were to have a spiritual life with God long after our bodies died. Death that was brought to the world through Adam and Eve's sin is one of spiritual death. It is the complete and total separation of man from God when our bodies die. Christ died to bring us back to the way God had planned all along. We live a mortal life, our body dies, and we spend eternity in the company of God.

 

[Former Christian]

Where does it say that humans gain eternal life outside of Christ? Do the lost gain some kind of eternal life that allows them to spend eternity in the lake of fire tormented with the devil and his angels?

FC

 

[precepts]

Well, I hope that you get the answers you seek, but it sounds to me like he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

However, there are a few things that you are incorrect about that I would like to address. According to scripture there are three Hells; confusing statement I know but bear with me. In the Old Testament you have Sheol, in Greek they rendered it as Hades, which is divided into two parts. The first part is usually translated as paradise and the second is the pit. Paradise is where people go when they die and they fulfilled their duty under Mosaic or Messianic law. The pit is where those that failed to live up to their duty under Mosaic or Messianic law. This is where people go when they die until the Day of Judgment. The final Hell, Lake of Fire will not exist one moment sooner than the Day of Judgment. Basically, Paradise is for the saved and the Pit is for the unsaved. The unsaved and the fallen angels will all end up in the Lake of Fire on the Day of Judgment.

Now since I've explained the three Hells, I guess I'll take time to explain the two Heavens or what people think is Heaven. Paradise has been known to be Heaven through misunderstanding. It is not Heaven since no one will enter the gates of Heaven until the Day of Judgment. Heaven is the place where God lives at with the angelic host, so He cannot possibly reside in Paradise.

When Christ died, He went to Sheol to snatch the keys of death, specifically He went to the Pit. Death here is not a physical death, but rather a spiritual one. He claimed the keys so that as Christians we will go through His sacrifice to enter into Heaven at final judgment.

The next point you touch on is that "Christ died to make mankind immortal." This is unscriptural since mankind was always born mortal.

Genesis 3: 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.â€

As evidenced from Genesis man was created to be mortal, but we were to have a spiritual life with God long after our bodies died. Death that was brought to the world through Adam and Eve's sin is one of spiritual death. It is the complete and total separation of man from God when our bodies die. Christ died to bring us back to the way God had planned all along. We live a mortal life, our body dies, and we spend eternity in the company of God.

Yes, I know you and others are the long and short road, the straight curve. That's the way the new testament is written.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Where does it say that humans gain eternal life outside of Christ? Do the lost gain some kind of eternal life that allows them to spend eternity in the lake of fire tormented with the devil and his angels?

FC

I agree with you. Tormented forever isn't death or perishing (John 3:16), but rather eternal life in torment. To feel pain presupposes a person exists. And existing is not the same as death.

I even heard one fellow say, "We ALL have eternal life. The question is where are you going to spend it?" He made the Freudian slip of calling death and perishing "life".

The bottom line, it goes back to the devil's lie. "You will not surely die", and thus the birth of the immortal soul doctrine. When I die, barring the Lord coming back first, I will "sleep" until resurrected. Of course Lord knows, I do enough sleeping already.

 

[precepts]

Where does it say that humans gain eternal life outside of Christ? Do the lost gain some kind of eternal life that allows them to spend eternity in the lake of fire tormented with the devil and his angels?

FC

I don't remember the exact verse but the dead in Christ rise first, then the wicked dead. All put on immortality in the wheat and tares (7th trump) harvest. Daniel 12 also speaks of the dead rising to eternal condemnation and shame. Why raise the wicked if they're going to die again? It doesn't make any sense. What's the purpose of raising them up? Christ died to reverse the effect that original sin had on mankind which was death, but mortal death is casted into the lake of fire, and I stress, where the Beast and the false prophet are, present tense!

 

[tim-from-pa]

Why raise the wicked if they're going to die again?

Because the bible says so? (Second Death)

 

[precepts]

Because the bible says so? (Second Death)

Regardless of my previous post.

 

[Stan53]

As evidenced from Genesis man was created to be mortal, but we were to have a spiritual life with God long after our bodies died. Death that was brought to the world through Adam and Eve's sin is one of spiritual death. It is the complete and total separation of man from God when our bodies die. Christ died to bring us back to the way God had planned all along. We live a mortal life, our body dies, and we spend eternity in the company of God.

What evidence would that be?

Death in both Hebrew and Greek, refers to our bodies. The Bible teaches man, the one created in God's image, will live eternally, IF we have Jesus as our Saviour. The new earth spoken of in Rev 21 is where ALL believers will LIVE forever.
Our soul/spirit never dies and I don't see that literal concept in the Bible.

 

[CalledToServe]

What evidence would that be?

Death in both Hebrew and Greek, refers to our bodies. The Bible teaches man, the one created in God's image, will live eternally, IF we have Jesus as our Saviour. The new earth spoken of in Rev 21 is where ALL believers will LIVE forever.
Our soul/spirit never dies and I don't see that literal concept in the Bible.

Nice of you to ignore the actual scripture that I used to support my statement. That is being dishonest of you.

I never said that our spirit dies like it's a physical death; ie it just ceases to exist. I did say many times that spiritual death is the complete and total separation of man from God. It is the ultimate form of divorce.

All believers is not in question nor did I bring it up. I mentioned that there are three hells mentioned in the Bible, which there is. One of the types of hell is paradise, where the righteous go to after physical death to await the day of judgment. Those that are righteous see heaven and the new earth.

 

[Elijah674]

Last Sunday, May 27, Doug Batchelor tried to address my post on eternal hell fire subliminally. This is my response.



Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal, Christ would have suffered eternal hell fire during his 3 days in the grave, contradicting his earlier statements of there not being any life in the grave, but that the dead were asleep. The fact that there's no life in the grave is one of his major points during these broadcasts, yet he claims when Christ died, he descended into hell "to visit the prisoners in hell," a popular doctrine among pastors. This is a direct contradiction to scripture.



His second erroneous statement was "why would God make Satan immortal?" Can you believe that? He actually made that statement on tv!



The fact is, Satan and all the angels are immortal, thus my unanswered question of how does immortality put on mortality, dying in the lake of fire? The lake of fire was created for the Devil and his angels as the death for immortal beings, eternal confinement! Christ died to make mankind immortal. The question is where will you spend your eternity.



To claim God is unjust for creating the second death proves one's ignorance of the facts. Instead of trying to judge God, maybe you should get all the facts before trying to convict others with your unfactual doctrines! Get the facts!!!



To associate the fact of Christ dying for all mankind with Satan's lie in the garden of Eden is straight up childish and unchristian-like. It's unsound and down right personal, bordering on slander!



I can't wait to hear his response!

Hey, I am not SDA. But you need to tell your remarks TRUTHFULLY! You say:
Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal, Christ would have suffered eternal hell fire during his 3 days in the grave, contradicting his earlier statements of there not being any life in the grave, but that the dead were asleep. The fact that there's no life in the grave is one of his major points during these broadcasts, yet he claims when Christ died, he descended into hell "to visit the prisoners in hell," a popular doctrine among pastors. This is a direct contradiction to scripture. (End of your 'partial' quote).

This highlight above is not the truth. You best get your facts together before teaching SDA theollogy.

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Because the bible says so? (Second Death)

That IS the questian. When Christ't comes again, the wicked that are still alive and still around, will be slain. All wicked are then DEAD, but that is not their Second Death execution. At the end of the 1000 yrs. they have their resurection & come out of their graves the same lost way that they had died. It is then that they will all be executed eternally. Obad. 1:16

The rightous have a part in this 'degree' of execution's suffering per Eccl. 12:13-14 accurate books.1 Cor. 6:2-3. There are to be NO wicked in heaven except by these Books.

--Elijah

 

[for_his_glory]

I know there are three heaven's, but I have never read where there is three hell's. All I see in scripture is where Sheol is translated as grave, pit and abode of the dead, but not three individual places. Can you please give scripture for three hell's.

First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God and the holy angels (and creatures) and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.” (Psalm 2:4) The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them.”
The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God.

Many scriptures depict hell as fire and brimstone burning for eternity, but none of us actually knows what it will look like or feel to be cast there. In my own minds eye I see hell as a place where those who have rejected God, whether they be good or bad people, burning in a torment (fire and brimstone could be a metaphor for torment) of having to see those who have heard the call of God and have accepted Him and now live in a place of paradise with all the fullness of God in all His glory. No more tears, no more hurts, pain sickness, etc, etc. Those in hell are outside the realm of God continuing in all their sin, sickness, hurts, pain tears, etc. etc., but can see those who are in the glory of the Lord like looking through a window and wanting what others have, but will never have it and this is their torment for eternity as they are constantly consumed with the fire that burns in their souls for what they have rejected and now to late to receive.

God said that he would that none should perish, but those who have rejected God and His word are those who will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity by their own choice, even if they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, we believe because we know that Gods word is truth and does not come back void in our lives.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 and he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 and the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[CalledToServe]

I know there are three heaven's, but I have never read where there is three hell's. All I see in scripture is where Sheol is translated as grave, pit and abode of the dead, but not three individual places. Can you please give scripture for three hell's.

First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven†(Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven†(Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God and the holy angels (and creatures) and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,†(Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.†(Psalm 2:4) The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them.â€
The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God.

Many scriptures depict hell as fire and brimstone burning for eternity, but none of us actually knows what it will look like or feel to be cast there. In my own minds eye I see hell as a place where those who have rejected God, whether they be good or bad people, burning in a torment (fire and brimstone could be a metaphor for torment) of having to see those who have heard the call of God and have accepted Him and now live in a place of paradise with all the fullness of God in all His glory. No more tears, no more hurts, pain sickness, etc, etc. Those in hell are outside the realm of God continuing in all their sin, sickness, hurts, pain tears, etc. etc., but can see those who are in the glory of the Lord like looking through a window and wanting what others have, but will never have it and this is their torment for eternity as they are constantly consumed with the fire that burns in their souls for what they have rejected and now to late to receive.

God said that he would that none should perish, but those who have rejected God and His word are those who will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity by their own choice, even if they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, we believe because we know that Gods word is truth and does not come back void in our lives.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 and he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 and the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

In the original Hebrew manuscripts Sheol appears a total of sixty-five times in the Old Testament. Sheol is described as being a place of total darkness for the unrighteous and where to righteous go to await the day of judgment that is a paradise. Sheol has been mistranslated as to meaning pit and the grave, but the way the Hebrews wrote it meant the waiting area of souls until final judgment. Luke 16:22-24 shows that Hades in the Greek means the same thing as Sheol in Hebrew. It also shows that there is a great gulf between paradise for the righteous and the darkness for the unrighteous. The passage even names a prominent Old Testament figure that speaks along side Lazarus, recently deceased. The person in the passage is Abraham, the sire of Israel and the Hebrews. Keep in mind that Abraham's body has long since passed into dust since he lived roughly 1812 BCE to 1637 BCE which is almost 2,000 years before Lazarus died.

Here's a link that covers the Old Testament Sheol/Hells. It does a nice job of covering the Jewish tradition of scripture for most of it. The part I have problems with is where they say that Paradise moved from Sheol to some other place. Scripturally there is no basis for the belief.

Now, I'm going to correct you on the three heavens. You'd be incorrect since Genesis 1:1 states, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The earth is not a part of heaven or one of the heavens. It is the earth. You are quite correct that the atmosphere we breathe is one of the heavens. The second heaven is outer space with the final heaven being the abode of God and the angels.

 

[Stan53]

Nice of you to ignore the actual scripture that I used to support my statement. That is being dishonest of you.

Sorry, was Gen 3:22 your evidence that man was created mortal? I don't see that in that verse. I see God saying He was going to take away the means of their immortality, a means He gave them to start with.

I never said that our spirit dies like it's a physical death; ie it just ceases to exist. I did say many times that spiritual death is the complete and total separation of man from God. It is the ultimate form of divorce.

Really? The following quote is NOT you?

Death that was brought to the world through Adam and Eve's sin is one of spiritual death. We live a mortal life, our body dies, and we spend eternity in the company of God.

FYI, we(Believers) spend eternity on the New Earth as depicted in Rev 21:1-4

All believers is not in question nor did I bring it up. I mentioned that there are three hells mentioned in the Bible, which there is. One of the types of hell is paradise, where the righteous go to after physical death to await the day of judgement. Those that are righteous see heaven and the new earth.

There is Hell, Sheol, Hades, and Grave, mentioned in the OT and NT. Rev 20:13 shows that the Sea, Grave and Hades give up the dead. I don't agree that paradise is a type of hell, although it was obviously a place where Abraham, Lazarus and the thief on the cross ended up. Regardless, this whole scenario is the second resurrection, where everyone that wasn't resurrected in the first resurrection, is judged. Those whose names are in the book of LIFE, go onto LIFE and the ones who aren't, go on to the lake of fire where everything physical is consumed and everything spiritual is damned and tormented FOREVER.
Matthew 25:46; “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> â€
God created life so I'll go with how He defined and created it.

 

[Elijah674]

Hey, I am not SDA. But you need to tell your remarks TRUTHFULLY! You say:
Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal, Christ would have suffered eternal hell fire during his 3 days in the grave, contradicting his earlier statements of there not being any life in the grave, but that the dead were asleep. The fact that there's no life in the grave is one of his major points during these broadcasts, yet he claims when Christ died, he descended into hell "to visit the prisoners in hell," a popular doctrine among pastors. This is a direct contradiction to scripture. (End of your 'partial' quote).

This highlight above is not the truth. You best get your facts together before teaching SDA theollogy.

--Elijah

Me again. What has been said can be documented. All you need to do is write for the tape to see what has been said.

What bothers me are things being said which are not true, or are twisted. That sure is not Rom. 8:14 Led' of the Holy Spirit.

And yes, we can & do make honest mistakes + misquotes, which we need to fess up to or admit such. Or give documentation of the thing being true.

--Elijah

 

[precepts]

Hey, I am not SDA. But you need to tell your remarks TRUTHFULLY! You say:
Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal, Christ would have suffered eternal hell fire during his 3 days in the grave, contradicting his earlier statements of there not being any life in the grave, but that the dead were asleep. The fact that there's no life in the grave is one of his major points during these broadcasts, yet he claims when Christ died, he descended into hell "to visit the prisoners in hell," a popular doctrine among pastors. This is a direct contradiction to scripture. (End of your 'partial' quote).

This highlight above is not the truth. You best get your facts together before teaching SDA theollogy.

--Elijah

That would be the number one hypocritical act, to call me a liar, which I am not.

 

[Elijah674]

That would be the number one hypocritical act, to call me a liar, which I am not.

Then what does your one sentence mean that you posted up below?
You [document]: 'Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal,'

If that is stated for a fact by the man to you? then reading your posted comments mean about nothing to me! 2 Cor. 4:2 Whatever? Have on!

--Elijah

 

[precepts]

Then what does your one sentence mean that you posted up below?
You [document]: 'Doug Batchelor claimed, last Sunday, that if hell fire was eternal,'

If that is stated for a fact by the man to you? then reading your posted comments mean about nothing to me! 2 Cor. 4:2 Whatever? Have on!

--Elijah

God is not the author of confusion.

 

[CalledToServe]

Sorry, was Gen 3:22 your evidence that man was created mortal? I don't see that in that verse. I see God saying He was going to take away the means of their immortality, a means He gave them to start with.

Then you'd be misreading scripture and applying your own spin to God's words. There were two trees in the Garden of Eden. One was the Tree of Life and the other was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If man was already physically immortal like God then God would not make the statement He does in Genesis 3:22 where He removed man from the Garden to prevent them from being physically immortal like He already was physically immortal.

Really? The following quote is NOT you?

​

FYI, we(Believers) spend eternity on the New Earth as depicted in Rev 21:1-4

You're parsing my words out of context to create a strawman. My very next sentence states what the eternal death is which is the complete and total separation of man from the presence of God. I was very clear on where the righteous goes to and in what stages they go to. It's God's plan that we go to paradise then to new heaven/new earth after the Day of Judgment.

There is Hell, Sheol, Hades, and Grave, mentioned in the OT and NT. Rev 20:13 shows that the Sea, Grave and Hades give up the dead. I don't agree that paradise is a type of hell, although it was obviously a place where Abraham, Lazarus and the thief on the cross ended up. Regardless, this whole scenario is the second resurrection, where everyone that wasn't resurrected in the first resurrection, is judged. Those whose names are in the book of LIFE, go onto LIFE and the ones who aren't, go on to the lake of fire where everything physical is consumed and everything spiritual is damned and tormented FOREVER.

Then you are creating a doctrine that contradicts the scripture. I have a vow against man-made doctrines that I hold with God. There is no scriptural evidence to show that the righteous go through two resurrections. There is just one resurrection and that is at the final Day of Judgment. The Lake of Fire is the third Hell that God created, so thank you for agreeing with me that it is Hell.

Matthew 25:46; “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. <sup class="crossreference" value='(B)'></sup> â€

God created life so I'll go with how He defined and created it. [/QUOTE]

That's a wonderful scripture to use, but a bad way of interpreting it. It doesn't specify that they go to heaven and the lake of fire immediately like you want it to say. Jesus was speaking of the final judgment. Keep in mind that Jesus could not alter, change, or misconstrue anything in the Old Testament since He would be in violation of Proverbs 30:5-6. "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar."

Man was created with an immortal spirit, but a mortal body as shown in Genesis 3:22. I would like for you to show me a scripture that counters this scripture by showing that man's physical body would be immortal. Due to Adam and Eve's sin they introduced spiritual death, which is the complete and total separation of man and God. The unrighteous go to the part of Sheol that is darkness. The righteous go to Paradise that is on the other side of the gulf in Sheol. Both wait there until final judgment. Revelations deals with prophecy and speaks of the final judgment. We as humans do not get to see final judgment immediately after the body dies. How do I know this? There's no scriptural proof of it in the Bible.