Dowsing

[lovely]

aimee wrote:

I have a friend that uses a pendulum and 'dowses' for information by asking yes or no questions. But she couldn't tell me anything about it. What exactly is dowsing? Is it wrong and how accurate are the answers usually?

I think we have to keep in mind what aimee orginally wrote. There is nothing scientific about the process described above other than a 50/50 chance that you will get the answer you want to hear. Again, I have heard people use this pendulum thing to try and discover the gender of a child in the womb, but I do not think there is anything scientific about it. This sort of reminds me of the eight ball game that was around when I was younger. Some just thought of it, and the Ouija board, as games, but I think the evil is in familiarizing our children with things that clearly copy witchcraft, and at least in intent are a form of it. It is best to tear down the idols from the high places in cases like this, and abstain from all apperance of evil. Aimee, I'd steer clear. The Lord bless you.

 

[aimee_747]

Thank you for all of your responses. I have taken your advice and I talked to her about it and told her what I had learned here. But she was very quick to tell me that before every 'dowsing session' she always asks the Lord to be with her and for Him and only Him to answer her questions. And when she finishes she thanks the Lord and says a prayer. This doesn't justify it, right? It's still not something to do even if she believes that she's doing it in the name and with the help of the Lord?

 

[KnarfKS]

I have a friend who pumps septic tanks for a living. He actually does this with a green branch to find the septic tanks and sewer lines. In this respect it isn't witchcraft, it is merely using the physical properties of a green branch to find water.

But basically unless your friend is looking for underground water, this isn't going to help her.

 

[antitox]

Thank you for all of your responses. I have taken your advice and I talked to her about it and told her what I had learned here. But she was very quick to tell me that before every 'dowsing session' she always asks the Lord to be with her and for Him and only Him to answer her questions. And when she finishes she thanks the Lord and says a prayer. This doesn't justify it, right? It's still not something to do even if she believes that she's doing it in the name and with the help of the Lord?

It absolutely does not justify it. No one can expect God to bless something that is against His nature. Remember the woman in Acts 16 that followed Paul around saying that he was a "servant of the Most High God?" And Paul then turned around and cast a demon out of her. The point is that just because someone attributes something to God or even dedicates it to God does not mean that person is God-motivated/inspired. This woman was saying something that was true, but there was something else behind it. It states flatly in Acts 16:16 that she "had a spirit of divination."

The practice of seeking water or other things this way is "divination." In the old days people used to get a Y-shaped tree branch and walk around holding the Y-side of the branch with both hands and the straight side pointing toward the ground seeking to discover water by this divining method. It was also refererred to as a "divining rod." Any kind of divining is against God. In Deut 18, God condemns "anyone who practices divination."

Down in Mexico there are occultists who have catholic crosses and so forth who attribute their practices to God. Does that make it ok? Absolutely not.

 

[ArtGuy]

Hey ArtGuy,

Please look over the following website:

http://www.espministries.com/index2.htm

:

The section on D&D was the biggest laugh I've had in awhile, thanks. As someone who's played D&D for nigh-20 years, I can definitively say that this guy is a bloody loon, and has no clue what he's talking about.

You wanna know how "mysticism" works? It works because people want it to work and believe it will work badly enough that they delude themselves into thinking it does. C'mon, this site lists John Edwards as an example of the occult. John Edwards is a classic example of a con-artist, and his methodology has been well catalogued by people who make a living in debunking this garbage.

John Edwards bugs the waiting rooms, and learns key facts about his guests, who are, no doubt, eager to talk about all the people they hope to contact. He then asks such vague questions that someone is guaranteed to answer affirmatively, and then leads these sheep along with questions designed to gradually narrow in on some key fact. He's good at what he does, I'll give him that, but what he does is not magic or occultism. It's a con-job.

You should watch some Penn and Teller specials, or some other shows that reveal magicians' tricks, because it's more or less the same thing. Distraction, diversion, and a good grasp of human psychology.

And this site talks about horoscopes! Bloody horoscopes! My god, anyone who sees that as dangerous has some issues. "The moon in Aries says that you should probably not be mean to your friends. Hard work will yield results. Don't stick your hand in a moving blender." Wow, that sure is some prescient stuff, right there.

The "occult" industry is kept alive by people who willfully disengage their minds from the realm of reason. By people who simply want to believe so badly that they convince themselves there's some basis to this stuff.

If your friend showed you pictures of people with "ectoplasm" coming out of their eyes, then he's either trying to con you, or being conned himself. So sorry, but them's the facts.

 

[Vic C.]

You are correct Art... it's all a con. Just remember who the greatest con artist this world has even know is and 'his' m.o. The adversary can't physically make us do anything, so he uses temptation and the power of suggestion as two of his methods. Anyone... and I mean anyone who thinks they are above the principalities of evil are the ones who are deluding themselves. I've seen it happen all around me. It has happened in my family. It has happened to me.

Trust me, I am NOT a superstitious person.

Go ahead and open those doors. Ya' better be prepared to deal with whatever may enter. None of you will be able to defeat it on your own though.

You play with fire and eventually you are going to get burned. I can just hear Jagger singing in the background, "don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire."

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

 

[antitox]

You are correct Art... it's all a con. Just remember who the greatest con artist this world has even know is and 'his' m.o. The adversary can't physically make us do anything, so he uses temptation and the power of suggestion as two of his methods. Anyone... and I mean anyone who thinks they are above the principalities of evil are the ones who are deluding themselves. I've seen it happen all around me. It has happened in my family. It has happened to me.

Trust me, I am NOT a superstitious person.

Go ahead and open those doors. Ya' better be prepared to deal with whatever may enter. None of you will be able to defeat it on your own though.

You play with fire and eventually you are going to get burned. I can just hear Jagger singing in the background, "don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire."

Deu 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

That is so true. We cannot defeat these things on our own. That is my whole reasoning not to downplay it. It is when we think we are above something that we are most vulnerable to it.

 

[ArtGuy]

You are correct Art... it's all a con. Just remember who the greatest con artist this world has even know is and 'his' m.o.

L. Ron Hubbard?

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

C. S. Lewis wrote in the preface to the Screwtape Letters that the best thing the devil ever did was convince us he doesnt exist. Lewis is a smart man, and I tend to trust a lot of the things he says.

 

[ArtGuy]

C. S. Lewis wrote in the preface to the Screwtape Letters that the best thing the devil ever did was convince us he doesnt exist. Lewis is a smart man, and I tend to trust a lot of the things he says.

The fact that the devil exists does not imply that demons will attack you spiritually if you elect to ask questions of a stick.

 

[antitox]

C. S. Lewis wrote in the preface to the Screwtape Letters that the best thing the devil ever did was convince us he doesnt exist. Lewis is a smart man, and I tend to trust a lot of the things he says.

The fact that the devil exists does not imply that demons will attack you spiritually if you elect to ask questions of a stick.

'

You're not a Christian , are you?

 

[Khristeeanos]

:

The section on D&D was the biggest laugh I've had in awhile, thanks. As someone who's played D&D for nigh-20 years, I can definitively say that this guy is a bloody loon, and has no clue what he's talking about.

He was a spiritual medium for many years. He has experiences that you and I know nothing of.

You wanna know how "mysticism" works? It works because people want it to work and believe it will work badly enough that they delude themselves into thinking it does. C'mon, this site lists John Edwards as an example of the occult. John Edwards is a classic example of a con-artist, and his methodology has been well catalogued by people who make a living in debunking this garbage.

John Edwards bugs the waiting rooms, and learns key facts about his guests, who are, no doubt, eager to talk about all the people they hope to contact. He then asks such vague questions that someone is guaranteed to answer affirmatively, and then leads these sheep along with questions designed to gradually narrow in on some key fact. He's good at what he does, I'll give him that, but what he does is not magic or occultism. It's a con-job.

You should watch some Penn and Teller specials, or some other shows that reveal magicians' tricks, because it's more or less the same thing. Distraction, diversion, and a good grasp of human psychology.

I know nothing of JE, so I can't comment. Never heard of the guy outside of this website.

And this site talks about horoscopes! Bloody horoscopes! ........, anyone who sees that as dangerous has some issues. "The moon in Aries says that you should probably not be mean to your friends. Hard work will yield results. Don't stick your hand in a moving blender." Wow, that sure is some prescient stuff, right there.

I have to pity you for the attitude you have.

The "occult" industry is kept alive by people who willfully disengage their minds from the realm of reason. By people who simply want to believe so badly that they convince themselves there's some basis to this stuff.

If your friend showed you pictures of people with "ectoplasm" coming out of their eyes, then he's either trying to con you, or being conned himself. So sorry, but them's the facts.

I remember being at Busch stadium on September 8, 1998. I remember being there just behind home plate at 8:08 PM when Mark McGwire hit a home run to break Roger Maris' record of 61 hr's in a season.

I actually took a picture of it with my own camera.

I was there.

I took the pictures myself.

And Ben Alexander was there. He took the pictures himself.

To say that he is a con-man is to tell a guy he didn't experience something that he did.

He is a great man of God who is humble and very loving.

He was there.

He took the pictures.

 

[ArtGuy]

C. S. Lewis wrote in the preface to the Screwtape Letters that the best thing the devil ever did was convince us he doesnt exist. Lewis is a smart man, and I tend to trust a lot of the things he says.

The fact that the devil exists does not imply that demons will attack you spiritually if you elect to ask questions of a stick.

'

You're not a Christian , are you?

Yes I am, in fact. I wasn't aware that being afraid of dowsing rods was a prerequisite to salvation.

 

[ArtGuy]

:

The section on D&D was the biggest laugh I've had in awhile, thanks. As someone who's played D&D for nigh-20 years, I can definitively say that this guy is a bloody loon, and has no clue what he's talking about.

He was a spiritual medium for many years. He has experiences that you and I know nothing of.

Does, he now? I would wager they much resemble the experiences detailed herein. I ask that you read that, and try to maintain an open mind.

I remember being at Busch stadium on September 8, 1998. I remember being there just behind home plate at 8:08 PM when Mark McGwire hit a home run to break Roger Maris' record of 61 hr's in a season.

I actually took a picture of it with my own camera.

I was there.

I took the pictures myself.

And Ben Alexander was there. He took the pictures himself.

To say that he is a con-man is to tell a guy he didn't experience something that he did.

He is a great man of God who is humble and very loving.

He was there.

He took the pictures.

Say, did they look at all like this?

Because this is a typical photo of "ectoplasm", and is a notorious fake. Ectoplasm usually consists of bits of cheesecloth, typically coated with some sort of irridescent paint to make it look vageuly otherworldly. Mediums typically tell the attendents at a seance not to touch the stuff, because it's eeeeevil. In reality, they don't want it touched because it'd be pretty obvious it was fake.

There's not a single aspect of seances and other occult phenomenon that have not be explained rationally. Whether something seems real to you in the excitement of the moment is irrelevant, because humans are horrifically prone to suggestion and manipulation. This is how magicians work.

Your friend was either an unwitting victim of deceit, or a deceiver himself. I mean, I could tell you that I definitely saw God come down and tell me personally that the occult was all hogwash. I could tell you that I know someone who went flying in a UFO, and that he would certainly never lie or be mistaken. Would you buy any of that? I certainly hope you wouldn't.

Pity me if you wish, but it won't make me believe in absurdities

 

[Geo]

One clarification regarding "can I pray before and after practising
anything related to divination"

No you cannot in truth, you try to serve two masters, it is impossible.
God will never sanctify any wilful sin.

Why is dowsing or any divination sin?

Because not only do you disregard God's will -- you actively submit
your will to "anyone" that picks it up in the spiritual realm and guides
you. You submit your will, but not to God.

I know that it so, and you better believe they pick up your will
and guide it where 'they' want it to have. It's submission, you
submit - they fulfil the 'order'.

One major thing that happened to me just before they popped in a real
'biggy' was a solution to a major problem regarding money, at lot of
money that someone owed me. Problem was he owed a lot of money
to a lot of people, and then disappeared. Everyone lost their investment,
never to be recovered. My "guiding system" however suggested one
very specific action I should take and the problem would be solved
"in no time". By simple reasoning that was impossible, the guy was
gone and stayed gone.

I took the suggested action, and the very next morning someone
knocked at my door, handed me my money, and said that he's very sorry
that his friend is a jerk. Unbelievable, but true. I got paid, nobody else did.

Read the first page again what I said regarding building of trust,
they don't get you with simple lies, they get you with smart and effective lies
that look like truth. It's the strategy of Satan, and he wants our soul.

 

[antitox]

C. S. Lewis wrote in the preface to the Screwtape Letters that the best thing the devil ever did was convince us he doesnt exist. Lewis is a smart man, and I tend to trust a lot of the things he says.

The fact that the devil exists does not imply that demons will attack you spiritually if you elect to ask questions of a stick.

'

You're not a Christian , are you?

Yes I am, in fact. I wasn't aware that being afraid of dowsing rods was a prerequisite to salvation.

From what you say you don't sound like a bible believer.

 

[ArtGuy]

From what you say you don't sound like a bible believer.

Because I don't buy into new-age nonsense? Because I recognize that there's no evidence that any of this stuff works? God didn't give us our wondrous minds in the hopes that we would completely disregard them.

 

[Ajax 777]

God didn't give us our wondrous minds in the hopes that we would completely disregard them.

The same could be said for His Word.

 

[ArtGuy]

God didn't give us our wondrous minds in the hopes that we would completely disregard them.

The same could be said for His Word.

Undoubtedly. I don't deny that demons exist. I only deny that they regularly interfere in the actions of men, or that things like dowsing and daily horoscopes and magic 8-balls are means of readily communicating with them.

 

[antitox]

From what you say you don't sound like a bible believer.

Because I don't buy into new-age nonsense? Because I recognize that there's no evidence that any of this stuff works? God didn't give us our wondrous minds in the hopes that we would completely disregard them.

New age? That's not what is depicted in the bible. You suppose Jesus cast out figments of their imaginations? No, I don't see any new age here.