Eating Out on Sunday

[Edward]

Knotical:
So, the idea is that as long as we take one day off a week as our "sabbath" we are good? Why then would that be on a different day than the day we attend a worship service?
(I've read that the 7th day is the Lord's day (sabbath) and that Satan picked the 1st day for him so they changed it...I have no reference for this as it's been a long time since I read that but I remember it based on Paganism.)

If you extrapolate correctly verses concerning the Sabbath it is true that it was on Saturday, as it was the seventh day of the week. However, Christianity adopted Sunday as the sabbath as that is the day (arguably) Jesus rose again from the grave.

But when did we suddenly say we no longer have to adhere to the Ten Commandments?
(It's kind of a paradox, eh brother?) Yes, we're under the new Covenant and yes we should keep the 10 commandments. Being in Christ, and Christ in us supersedes the 10 Commandments though, but only when the will of God is being effected. For example; Jesus said hey go up around the bend and snag me a donkey to ride...so they did, and it was not stealing because it belongs to God anyway and the will of God was being done. Normally, us believers will follow the 10 commandments from respect and obedience anyway, like you say. But it is entirely possible that any believer could be led of the Spirit in a way sometime that would technically break one or more of the 10 commandments and we still should not hesitate to obey if this is the case.

Sure, adherence will not affect our salvation, but in a New Testament world it is a sign of obedience to God if we do.

 

[Deborah13]

Well off the top of my head, there's Moses and the Isarelites in the desert (before receiving the 10 Commandments) and they were receiving Manna from heaven back in chapter 16 and were instructed to gather a double portion on the 6th day...

Exodus 16:
4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not. 5 And it shall be on the sixth day that they shall prepare what they bring in, and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.”/(NKJV)

They gathered a double portion on the 6th day in preparation for the Sabbath. I know it doesn't come right out and say it, but it's pretty clear that they needed more on Friday, and what else could it be for?!) This was way before Moses received the tablets (that's up in chapter 34 I think.) I think there are more examples of this nature also but I can't remember them right now, lol. I could prolly dig some more up if needed.

Sorry I should have been more clear. You said that the Sabbath is seen in the garden and other places before the Law. In the wilderness they were observing the Sabbath for sure, or in training to do that.
That same scripture says to me that they had not done this before, it was a new instruction from the Lord, Moses' didn't seem to know about it, unless they had forgotten. Which is possible.
Jesus and the apostles gathered food and traveled on the Sabbath.

 

[tim-from-pa]

From my viewpoint, I'll make this whole thread simple: Either one believes they have to keep the Sabbath or they don't (i.e. the day does not matter).

1) If it doesn't matter, then eat out, and order one for me, too.
2) If it does matter, don't eat out on Saturday since that's the biblical Sabbath.

Those are the only two choices, that is unless a person's admitting to changing the Sabbath to another day, which is both unbiblical and dangerous. And if that's the case, then don't show up at the next thread and tell me I'm a legalist for keeping Sabbath while pretending to be in the #1 category as your justification. The two choices above are all one has.

 

[Edward]

Sorry I should have been more clear. You said that the Sabbath is seen in the garden and other places before the Law. In the wilderness they were observing the Sabbath for sure, or in training to do that.
That same scripture says to me that they had not done this before, it was a new instruction from the Lord, Moses' didn't seem to know about it, unless they had forgotten. Which is possible.
Jesus and the apostles gathered food and traveled on the Sabbath.

If God created man on the 6th day and on the 7th God rested and blessed the Sabbath day, and the sabbath was made for man, so I'm presuming that they continued to keep it. We needed a way to keep track of weeks anyway, lol. Nothing in nature indicates one week, and the bible uses weeks a lot. I think it was probably passed down in oral tradition then. Enoch may be an example also. He was righteous and walked with God and kept all of His precepts...I find it hard to imagine that Enoch did not keep the Sabbath.

Maybe they did forget though (!) and God reminded them to keep the sabbath in the commandments?
Jesus and His disciples may not have kept the Sabbath, but they were about our Fathers work which is ok on the Sabbath.

 

[gracenote]

If God created man on the 6th day and on the 7th God rested and blessed the Sabbath day, and the sabbath was made for man, so I'm presuming that they continued to keep it. We needed a way to keep track of weeks anyway, lol. Nothing in nature indicates one week, and the bible uses weeks a lot. I think it was probably passed down in oral tradition then. Enoch may be an example also. He was righteous and walked with God and kept all of His precepts...I find it hard to imagine that Enoch did not keep the Sabbath.

Maybe they did forget though (!) and God reminded them to keep the sabbath in the commandments?
Jesus and His disciples may not have kept the Sabbath, but they were about our Fathers work which is ok on the Sabbath.

Perhaps then we must learn to determine which forms of work would be the Lord's and which wouldn't?
And I do agree with Saturday as Sabbath, even tho' I attended a Sunday service for years.
Fascinating discussion, btw!

 

[Deborah13]

1) If it doesn't matter, then eat out, and order one for me, too.

Tim, I liked your overall post.
However, for me
1) it's not that it doesn't matter, in a casual way. It matters very much about the Sabbath rest. But because of what I see in scripture I believe that the Sabbath rest is being in the Messiah every waking moment in thought, word, and deed. That is how I believe one worships and rests in Him.
But that doesn't mean that I should forsake the fellowship of the Body either.

 

[Miss Spaulding]

Wouldn't you agree that there is some level of 'work' involved when it comes to getting dressed, eating breakfast, downing a cup of coffee, getting in the car and driving to church? ...All of this breaks that commandment.

I personally have no conviction of eating out after church if I fancy it. But even if I choose not to eat out but head home instead...I'd end up doing more 'work' at home by preparing myself a meal than I would be in entering a restaurant and having a chef prepare my meal for me.

I'm as zealous about obeying God's word as the next fellow, but there are some things I'm just not going to sweat. This would be one of them.

Now, I do agree that nobody, especially professing Christians, she'd actually work at their place of employment on Sunday if they can really help it. That I do agree with.

 

[Michael74]

Either way this doesn't sound to me, like a church service that we see in say Corinth.

No, but the passage clearly states that the disciples ate on the first day of the week, so its not forbidden to eat on Sunday.

 

[Deborah13]

Jesus and His disciples may not have kept the Sabbath, but they were about our Fathers work which is ok on the Sabbath.

Whoa, I never said Jesus and his apostles didn't keep the Sabbath! It's just that Jesus kept it how it was intended to be, that's what I believe.
What I see is that keeping the Sabbath is loving others as you love yourself and by doing that, loving God. That is what I see Jesus and the apostles were doing on the Sabbath and every day.

I thought about the idea that the gathering of manna on the day before the Sabbath may have something to do with being prepared for whatever the Lord calls us to do. And that means eating the book, the words of the bread of life, given to us so we could know Him and His ways. Haven't really gotten that clear though, maybe it's nothing.

 

[Deborah13]

Perhaps then we must learn to determine which forms of work would be the Lord's and which wouldn't?
And I do agree with Saturday as Sabbath, even tho' I attended a Sunday service for years.
Fascinating discussion, btw!

It might look different for different people. He might tell you to teach a Sunday School class and He might tell me to serve meals in a Soup kitchen. He might tell someone else to play music in a worship team in church or set up, play, and sing praises in the town park. That's what I believe.

 

[gr8grace3]

Tim, I liked your overall post.
However, for me
1) it's not that it doesn't matter, in a casual way. It matters very much about the Sabbath rest. But because of what I see in scripture I believe that the Sabbath rest is being in the Messiah every waking moment in thought, word, and deed. That is how I believe one worships and rests in Him.
But that doesn't mean that I should forsake the fellowship of the Body either.

I agree Deb. It is not the day that matters, it is the rest.
Our eternal life is a eternal sabbath.. MAT 11:28 “Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

After the Cross, the "day" changed to the first day of the week. Sunday. The feast of the first fruits. And 50 days later was Pentecost on a sunday.
1 Cor 16:2~~ on the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Acts 20:7~~ And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul {began} talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

As babes in Christ we may adhere to every Sunday. But as we mature we will see that it is a daily rest, day by day.

Col 2:16-17, ~~Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

ROM 14:4-6, who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man regards one day above another, another regards every day {alike.} let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

What gets overlooked is what the sabbath day really was. And God rested. God provided everything man needed, and man wasn't even around yet.......Grace. God provided everything we needed, without our help and He knew every problem and adversity that we would face and He provided us with everything we need to solve those problems and live in His plan. And this day was a day to reflect on His grace provisions for us. One thing we are to reflect upon on this day is we cannot work for our salvation, His Grace provided that.

 

[gracenote]

It might look different for different people. He might tell you to teach a Sunday School class and He might tell me to serve meals in a Soup kitchen. He might tell someone else to play music in a worship team in church or set up, play, and sing praises in the town park. That's what I believe.

I like what you said.
Makes total sense to me.
He did the Lord's work on the Sabbath. Maybe so should we.
Nice!

 

[Deborah13]

After the Cross, the "day" changed to the first day of the week. Sunday. The feast of the first fruits. And 50 days later was Pentecost on a sunday.
1 Cor 16:2~~ on the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

I like much of your post except the change in the weekly Sabbath. From the time of the weekly Sabbath, there was also the barley offering each year on the first day of the week. They were not the same day.
I believe that the early church observed the Last Supper between the evenings of Nisan 14 and 15 not on the Resurrection day. But I don't believe it was a once a year observance, necessarily.
1Co 11:24 and having given thanks, he brake, and said, `Take ye, eat ye, this is my body, that for you is being broken; this do ye--to the remembrance of me.'
1Co 11:25 In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink it --to the remembrance of me;'
1Co 11:26 for as often as ye may eat this bread, and this cup may drink, the death of the Lord ye do shew forth--till he may come;

 

[Deborah13]

I like what you said.
Makes total sense to me.
He did the Lord's work on the Sabbath. Maybe so should we.
Nice!

I just think we should do whatever the Lord places on our hearts to do. That may be to take the day off and just play with the kids or take the spouse on a drive, time for family. Going fishing, etc. Some people do work six days a week and really need the physical rest. We aren't any good to the Lord worn out, tempers get short, and people get sick.

 

[gracenote]

I like much of your post except the change in the weekly Sabbath. From the time of the weekly Sabbath, there was also the barley offering each year on the first day of the week. They were not the same day.
I believe that the early church observed the Last Supper between the evenings of Nisan 14 and 15 not on the Resurrection day. But I don't believe it was a once a year observance, necessarily.
1Co 11:24 and having given thanks, he brake, and said, `Take ye, eat ye, this is my body, that for you is being broken; this do ye--to the remembrance of me.'
1Co 11:25 In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink it --to the remembrance of me;'
1Co 11:26 for as often as ye may eat this bread, and this cup may drink, the death of the Lord ye do shew forth--till he may come;

That is such a beautiful passage.
and the Last Supper wasn't on the actual Sabbath Day that year, then, was it?

 

[gr8grace3]

I like much of your post except the change in the weekly Sabbath. From the time of the weekly Sabbath, there was also the barley offering each year on the first day of the week. They were not the same day.
I believe that the early church observed the Last Supper between the evenings of Nisan 14 and 15 not on the Resurrection day. But I don't believe it was a once a year observance, necessarily.
1Co 11:24 and having given thanks, he brake, and said, `Take ye, eat ye, this is my body, that for you is being broken; this do ye--to the remembrance of me.'
1Co 11:25 In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, `This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink it --to the remembrance of me;'
1Co 11:26 for as often as ye may eat this bread, and this cup may drink, the death of the Lord ye do shew forth--till he may come;

For the unbelieving Jew, their ritual of the sabbath day has not changed.

 

[Deborah13]

For the unbelieving Jew, their ritual of the sabbath day has not changed.

?? Not sure what that has to do with what I said. I didn't mention unbelievers at all.
1Co 5:7 cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed--Christ,
1Co 5:8 so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.

 

[gr8grace3]

?? Not sure what that has to do with what I said. I didn't mention unbelievers at all.
1Co 5:7 cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed--Christ,
1Co 5:8 so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.

You said you were not sure "about the change of the weekly sabbath." in my post. I have not changed the day of the sabbath for Jews. They are not on this side of the Cross. Their day is still Saturday.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Good grief! I have to stay more diligent myself here! I just noticed this thread is in the lounge again, and we should not debate or misbehave here just as a new-comer coming into a service would not (or should not) hear parishioners debating. I'm not saying any more here, either. At this rate, I may not say much if anything at all on this whole board. I mean, can't we be more discreet than to introduce a topic and/or debate in an area that is not meant to be one?

 

[Obadiah]

Good grief! I have to stay more diligent myself here! I just noticed this thread is in the lounge again, and we should not debate or misbehave here just as a new-comer coming into a service would not (or should not) hear parishioners debating. I'm not saying any more here, either. At this rate, I may not say much if anything at all on this whole board. I mean, can't we be more discreet than to introduce a topic and/or debate in an area that is not meant to be one?

Many people don't believe we should be following any rules here.