ECF?

[Thekjv]

Acts 13:1
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

2 Timothy 1:11
Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

In the Acts verse I agree there are teachers and prophets not Rabbi's and Father's.

In 1 Corin verse I agree and again it does not say call them Rabbi or Father. They a called by the titles in that verse apostles, prophets and teachers.

2Tim verse I agree all 3 titles exist in the church and one can be called teacher, prophet, an Apostle, and preacher but of these 3 do not call them Rabbi or Father.

 

[Thekjv]

We are supposed to be instructed

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

If you want to consider and respect and call a man master/Rabbi you are free to and I am free not to.
If you want to call someone in your church Father you are free to I do not call anyone in church rabbi/master or Father
Jesus is my Master/rabbi and God is my Father.

 

[Thekjv]

Calling priests "father" in the sense of addressing a priest as father is not wrong.
Saying it is wrong based on Mt 23:9 is the fallacy of equivocation.

So I guess that would apply to Gen 1:1 and John 1:1 also

 

[Hopeful 2]

Heb 9:10
Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new so there are many similarities

Disobeying Jesus isn't one of the similarities.

 

[Thekjv]

Heb 9:10
Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new so there are many similarities

So you do not believe these verses Eph 2
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Jere 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
I don't see reformed

 

[Thekjv]

donadams said;; Calling priests "father" in the sense of addressing a priest as father is not wrong.

Jesus was speaking in the whole chapter of Matt 23 and said many things.
No one can chose one statement in the chapter and give their understanding of that statement???
Jesus clearly said you have ONE Rabbi and ONE Father.
Jesus clearly said HE is the only Rabbi/Master to the whole group listening to him and also He said to them "you have only one father which is in Heaven".

 

[Mungo]

So I guess that would apply to Gen 1:1 and John 1:1 also

I don't see the relevance of your comment.

 

[Mungo]

donadams said;; Calling priests "father" in the sense of addressing a priest as father is not wrong.

Jesus was speaking in the whole chapter of Matt 23 and said many things.
No one can chose one statement in the chapter and give their understanding of that statement???
Jesus clearly said you have ONE Rabbi and ONE Father.
Jesus clearly said HE is the only Rabbi/Master to the whole group listening to him and also He said to them "you have only one father which is in Heaven".

Actually I said that.
But according to you Jesus was wrong to refer to Abraham as father in Lk 16:24 and use the word fathers in Mt 23:32, and Stephen when he said "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2),
and Paul when he wrote “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1Cor 4:15)
etc., etc.

 

[Thekjv]

Actually I said that.

Actually Jesus said it.

Matt 23
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. To me verse 8 is Jesus clearly sayng he is the ONLY master/Rabbi.
And below verse 9 to me clearly Jesus is saying I have only one father (in church/spiritually)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[Mungo]

Actually Jesus said it.

Matt 23
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. To me verse 8 is Jesus clearly sayng he is the ONLY master/Rabbi.
And below verse 9 to me clearly Jesus is saying I have only one father (in church/spiritually)

I'm not discussing Master or Rabbi. I'm discussing father

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

But according to you Jesus was wrong to refer to Abraham as father in Lk 16:24 and use the word fathers in Mt 23:32, and Stephen when he said "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2),
and Paul when he wrote “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1Cor 4:15)
etc., etc.
I can give more examples but these should be enough.

 

[Thekjv]

Actually I said that.
But according to you Jesus was wrong to refer to Abraham as father in Lk 16:24 and use the word fathers in Mt 23:32, and Stephen when he said "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2),
and Paul when he wrote “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1Cor 4:15)
etc., etc.

Actually I said that.
But according to you Jesus was wrong to refer to Abraham as father in Lk 16:24 and use the word fathers in Mt 23:32, and Stephen when he said "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2),
and Paul when he wrote “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1Cor 4:15)
etc., etc.

Jesus did a lot of speaking and many time he spoke in the old law cause that is all they knew. In matt 23 he is showing them what is would be under the new covenant. Look at Matt 4:17 it says at that time Jesus began teaching the Kingdom of Heaven.(Kingdom of God) which is not the old law.

 

[Thekjv]

I'm not discussing Master or Rabbi. I'm discussing father

Verse 9 is about Father ( not ones biological father)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

[Mungo]

Verse 9 is about Father ( not ones biological father)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

You are still evading the point I made.

But according to you Jesus was wrong to refer to Abraham as father in Lk 16:24 and use the word fathers in Mt 23:32, and Stephen when he said "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2),
and Paul when he wrote “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1Cor 4:15)
etc., etc.
I can give more examples but these should be enough.

 

[Thekjv]

You are still evading the point I made.

But according to you Jesus was wrong to refer to Abraham as father in Lk 16:24 and use the word fathers in Mt 23:32, and Stephen when he said "Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran” (Acts 7:2),
and Paul when he wrote “For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1Cor 4:15)
etc., etc.
I can give more examples but these should be enough.

1 Corin 9:

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

 

[Mungo]

1 Corin 9:

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Nothing there about fathers.

 

[donadams]

In the Acts verse I agree there are teachers and prophets not Rabbi's and Father's.

In 1 Corin verse I agree and again it does not say call them Rabbi or Father. They a called by the titles in that verse apostles, prophets and teachers.

2Tim verse I agree all 3 titles exist in the church and one can be called teacher, prophet, an Apostle, and preacher but of these 3 do not call them Rabbi or Father.

1 Tim 1: 2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Spiritual father?

1 Jn 2:1 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[donadams]

If you want to consider and respect and call a man master/Rabbi you are free to and I am free not to.
If you want to call someone in your church Father you are free to I do not call anyone in church rabbi/master or Father
Jesus is my Master/rabbi and God is my Father.

is Paul making himself father?

1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye notmany fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[donadams]

I did not say that, christ said s the head of the church, but He ascended to heaven and appointed Peter head in His place to administer the kingdom
Lk 22:29 Isa 22:21-22 Matt 16:18-19 and the apostles in union with Peter Matt 18:18 eph 2:20
Thanks

That implies a hierarchy

 

[donadams]

Disobeying Jesus isn't one of the similarities.

Still not disobedient Christ was rebuking the Pharisees for pride not an absolute

 

[donadams]

So you do not believe these verses Eph 2
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Jere 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
I don't see reformed

Heb 9:10
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Christ is high priest of a new covenant