Emerging Church

[veteran]

thanks ed and veteran, while it is true one can learn from other persons at times and god can use people from other faiths to show you where you are lacking in the faith, ie fruits of spirit, it also by new means wise to say that a buddhist or any other nonchristian faiths are good to listen to for spiritual advise.

when i was in afghanistan i had a muslim local national that worked under me, he had two wives, eight kids and 5 grandkids, he showed commpasion at times to those less fortunate then him, and it brought me shame. as i as a child of god i should show forth that love of christ. but did i got to that muslim for spiritual advice, no.

That's a different matter, because I've traveled to many countries in the world while in the military, and found good people in all of them. That's why the Christian west sends Missionaries to those countries so they can hear The Gospel of Jesus Christ, for the good ones deserve better than being held captive by gods that are no gods.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I have used this quote from a mclaren book before but I feel it will do justice here. Remembering we are told to lean on Gods understanding and not mans wisdom. We are told in the Bible that the only way to the father is through Christ. We are also told to tell the world the good news. If all ways lead to God then why the commission?

These are the words of Brian d McLaren from a book called a search for what makes sense:

"As a Christian, I am taught to seek the truth, wisdom and humility. That means that if a Buddhist teaches me. I gratefully honor the truth - beacause truth is truth, whoever brings it. Not only that, I should gratefully honor the bearer of that truth as well. The Bible is full of people of other faiths being used as messengers or conveyers of important truths. As a young Christian I was to proud to admit that a Muslim could teach me, or that a Hindu could teach me, or that an athiest could teach me, but I have grown to learn to honor the truth wherever it is found. Doing so, I believe, doesn't make me less mature as a Christian, but rather more."

This comment alone indicates McLarens pluralistic ideals and universalistic beliefs. He continues in the book to draw a large circle which he claims is the ultimate true religion. He then draws smaller circle intersecting that circle and labels the Christianity, Hinuism, Muslim etc and then indicates that each religion contains some of the ultimate true religion but they also have areas that don't belong to that ultimate religion. Now I don't believe a Christian would equate his believe in Jesus Christ as the same as anothers beliefs. This is from a book I read by Brian McLaren, I will not be wasting any more money purchasing his books.

Once again, you are taking this passage out of context and misconstruing what he is saying. He is saying that truth us truth. There is not more than one truth as pluralistic believers contend, there is one truth. What he is saying is that this one truth can be seen in many places and people not just Christians. There are teachings in various religions that ring true for all. That's not to say that everything every other religion teaches is true but there are commonalities.

He has been asked outright if he believes all people go to heaven. His position on this is that he feels this is the wrong question. Most Christians worry too much about what will happen to us after death and not enough on focusing on bringing the kingdom of God to earth right now. His writings and positions are firmly focused on the here and now which I feel is refreshing. At the same time, he has been and still is a huge proponent of bringing people to accepting Christ as their savior. As I mentioned earlier it was a recommendation in his book "The Search for What is Real" that went a long way in bringing me to Christ. He suggested that non believers live the life of a Christian for 60 days and see what happens. Read the bible, go to church, pray, etc. See where it leads you. It led me to God and Christ!

 

[Ed the Ned]

Please, do not take my response as argumentative or judgemental. All I ask is that you consider what I am saying. I have taken your side into consideration and will attempt to understand it in terms of your testimony.
I have to ask myself a few questions when taking Brian's teachings into consideration.

1. Is there such a thing as a false Gospel?
2. Is thhere such a thing as a false Jesus?
3. Am I warned of deception?
4. Am I asked to test everything according to scripture?

My answer to the aboth questions is: YES, YES, YES, and YES.

As a Christian we are told that God's word is Holy and mans word is foolish. Brian has emphasized that their are truths within all religions, yet he did not state that all truths are within Gods Word. He made note that all religions have truths based in part on GODS ULTIMATE TRUTH.
This leads me to believe that Brian believes that truth is found outside of Gods Word (The Bible). This also leads me to believe that he believes their are more ways to Heaven other than a belief in Christ. This then leads me to believe he does not believe Christ when he said I am the only way to the father and eternal life. This then leads me to believe that he does not teach the full meaning of Christ sacrifice on the Cross and is teaching a false Gospel.

Brian said

"The church has been preoccupied with the question, "What happens to your soul after you die?" As if the reason for Jesus coming can be summed up in, "Jesus is trying to help get more souls into heaven, as opposed to hell, after they die." I just think a fair reading of the Gospels blows that out of the water. I don't think that the entire message and life of Jesus can be boiled down to that bottom line."
—Brian McLaren, from the PBS special on the Emerging Church

"What if Jesus' secret message reveals a secret plan?".... What if he didn't come to start a new religion--but rather came to start a political, social, religious, artistic, economic, intellectual, and spiritual revolution that would give birth to a new world?"
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 4

"...many Hindus are willing to consider Jesus as a legitimate manifestation of the divine... many Buddhists see Jesus as one of humanity’s most enlightened people.... A shared reappraisal of Jesus’ message could provide a unique space or common ground for urgently needed religious dialogue—and it doesn’t seem an exaggeration to say that the future of our planet may depend on such dialogue. This reappraisal of Jesus’ message may be the only project capable of saving a number of religions."
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 7

“The church latched on to that old doctrine of original sin like a dog to a stick, and before you knew it, the whole gospel got twisted around it. Instead of being God’s big message of saving love for the whole world, the gospel became a little bit of secret information on how to solve the pesky legal problem of original sin.â€
--Brian McLaren, The Last Word and the Word After That, p.134

"I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts."
---Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 260

I admit I have searched the web for these quotes, but only to emphasize that what I quoted on in the beginning was not out of context, but within his false teachings.
I am thankful that he brought you to Christ and I am thankful that you make your opinion heard on this forum, I am also thankful that I might be in a position to expose a different side of the gospel to which you have been taught by Brian Mclaren.

It is my sincere opinion that The gospel is simple and needs no re-inventing, Christ had no secret messages. Only a message that he told us to spread across the globe. The Bible to me is the authoritive word of God. I lean on that understanding first, before I take any others opinion.

Sorry such a long reply

 

[vja4Him]

Please, do not take my response as argumentative or judgemental. All I ask is that you consider what I am saying. I have taken your side into consideration and will attempt to understand it in terms of your testimony.
I have to ask myself a few questions when taking Brian's teachings into consideration.

1. Is there such a thing as a false Gospel?
2. Is thhere such a thing as a false Jesus?
3. Am I warned of deception?
4. Am I asked to test everything according to scripture?

My answer to the aboth questions is: YES, YES, YES, and YES.

As a Christian we are told that God's word is Holy and mans word is foolish. Brian has emphasized that their are truths within all religions, yet he did not state that all truths are within Gods Word. He made note that all religions have truths based in part on GODS ULTIMATE TRUTH.
This leads me to believe that Brian believes that truth is found outside of Gods Word (The Bible). This also leads me to believe that he believes their are more ways to Heaven other than a belief in Christ. This then leads me to believe he does not believe Christ when he said I am the only way to the father and eternal life. This then leads me to believe that he does not teach the full meaning of Christ sacrifice on the Cross and is teaching a false Gospel.

Brian said

"The church has been preoccupied with the question, "What happens to your soul after you die?" As if the reason for Jesus coming can be summed up in, "Jesus is trying to help get more souls into heaven, as opposed to hell, after they die." I just think a fair reading of the Gospels blows that out of the water. I don't think that the entire message and life of Jesus can be boiled down to that bottom line."
—Brian McLaren, from the PBS special on the Emerging Church

"What if Jesus' secret message reveals a secret plan?".... What if he didn't come to start a new religion--but rather came to start a political, social, religious, artistic, economic, intellectual, and spiritual revolution that would give birth to a new world?"
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 4

"...many Hindus are willing to consider Jesus as a legitimate manifestation of the divine... many Buddhists see Jesus as one of humanity’s most enlightened people.... A shared reappraisal of Jesus’ message could provide a unique space or common ground for urgently needed religious dialogue—and it doesn’t seem an exaggeration to say that the future of our planet may depend on such dialogue. This reappraisal of Jesus’ message may be the only project capable of saving a number of religions."
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 7

“The church latched on to that old doctrine of original sin like a dog to a stick, and before you knew it, the whole gospel got twisted around it. Instead of being God’s big message of saving love for the whole world, the gospel became a little bit of secret information on how to solve the pesky legal problem of original sin.â€
--Brian McLaren, The Last Word and the Word After That, p.134

"I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts."
---Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 260

I admit I have searched the web for these quotes, but only to emphasize that what I quoted on in the beginning was not out of context, but within his false teachings.
I am thankful that he brought you to Christ and I am thankful that you make your opinion heard on this forum, I am also thankful that I might be in a position to expose a different side of the gospel to which you have been taught by Brian Mclaren.

It is my sincere opinion that The gospel is simple and needs no re-inventing, Christ had no secret messages. Only a message that he told us to spread across the globe. The Bible to me is the authoritive word of God. I lean on that understanding first, before I take any others opinion.

Sorry such a long reply

How widely accepted is Brian Mclaren in the Christian church(es)?

 

[RND]

Please, do not take my response as argumentative or judgemental. All I ask is that you consider what I am saying. I have taken your side into consideration and will attempt to understand it in terms of your testimony.
I have to ask myself a few questions when taking Brian's teachings into consideration.

1. Is there such a thing as a false Gospel?
2. Is thhere such a thing as a false Jesus?
3. Am I warned of deception?
4. Am I asked to test everything according to scripture?

My answer to the aboth questions is: YES, YES, YES, and YES.

As a Christian we are told that God's word is Holy and mans word is foolish. Brian has emphasized that their are truths within all religions, yet he did not state that all truths are within Gods Word. He made note that all religions have truths based in part on GODS ULTIMATE TRUTH.
This leads me to believe that Brian believes that truth is found outside of Gods Word (The Bible). This also leads me to believe that he believes their are more ways to Heaven other than a belief in Christ. This then leads me to believe he does not believe Christ when he said I am the only way to the father and eternal life. This then leads me to believe that he does not teach the full meaning of Christ sacrifice on the Cross and is teaching a false Gospel.

Brian said

"The church has been preoccupied with the question, "What happens to your soul after you die?" As if the reason for Jesus coming can be summed up in, "Jesus is trying to help get more souls into heaven, as opposed to hell, after they die." I just think a fair reading of the Gospels blows that out of the water. I don't think that the entire message and life of Jesus can be boiled down to that bottom line."
—Brian McLaren, from the PBS special on the Emerging Church

"What if Jesus' secret message reveals a secret plan?".... What if he didn't come to start a new religion--but rather came to start a political, social, religious, artistic, economic, intellectual, and spiritual revolution that would give birth to a new world?"
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 4

"...many Hindus are willing to consider Jesus as a legitimate manifestation of the divine... many Buddhists see Jesus as one of humanity’s most enlightened people.... A shared reappraisal of Jesus’ message could provide a unique space or common ground for urgently needed religious dialogue—and it doesn’t seem an exaggeration to say that the future of our planet may depend on such dialogue. This reappraisal of Jesus’ message may be the only project capable of saving a number of religions."
––Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, p. 7

“The church latched on to that old doctrine of original sin like a dog to a stick, and before you knew it, the whole gospel got twisted around it. Instead of being God’s big message of saving love for the whole world, the gospel became a little bit of secret information on how to solve the pesky legal problem of original sin.â€
--Brian McLaren, The Last Word and the Word After That, p.134

"I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts."
---Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p. 260

I admit I have searched the web for these quotes, but only to emphasize that what I quoted on in the beginning was not out of context, but within his false teachings.
I am thankful that he brought you to Christ and I am thankful that you make your opinion heard on this forum, I am also thankful that I might be in a position to expose a different side of the gospel to which you have been taught by Brian Mclaren.

It is my sincere opinion that The gospel is simple and needs no re-inventing, Christ had no secret messages. Only a message that he told us to spread across the globe. The Bible to me is the authoritive word of God. I lean on that understanding first, before I take any others opinion.

Sorry such a long reply

You've described "Babylon's wine" very well. This is simple ecumenism.

 

[RND]

How widely accepted is Brian Mclaren in the Christian church(es)?

Well, we can only gauge that by what we see our churches do and say. Brian McLaren and many of these others are simply teaching a "form" of godliness and at the same time but deny the power of God. It's a form of simple eastern mysticism.

http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/biblic ... lusion.htm

Just go to Google and type in "Brian McLaren Eastern Mysticism" and you'll be surprised by the light that comes on!

 

[Aero_Hudson]

How widely accepted is Brian Mclaren in the Christian church(es)?

Well, we can only gauge that by what we see our churches do and say. Brian McLaren and many of these others are simply teaching a "form" of godliness and at the same time but deny the power of God. It's a form of simple eastern mysticism.

http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/biblic ... lusion.htm

Just go to Google and type in "Brian McLaren Eastern Mysticism" and you'll be surprised by the light that comes on!

I feel your statement is completely false. I would challenge anyone here that would use these kinds of words to describe McLaren to actually read his books if you have not already done so. I read the quotes provided in the post by Ed and with the exception of maybe one cannot fathom how these are controversial especially when I understand them in the specific context of the books I have read.

I think McLaren is a brave voice in the Christian community where ideas are often labeled as heretical when some do not have a clear understanding of what the writer / thinker is saying. Open your heart and mind and then discern how you feel about what he is saying. I thinking using Ed's 4 step criteria is a good approach and I also am confident that anyone that will be objective will find some good things in his works. Personally, I have yet to read any Christian author and think that 100% of what they say is accurate or useful.

Just my additional thoughts.

 

[RND]

I feel your statement is completely false.

You have that right.

I would challenge anyone here that would use these kinds of words to describe McLaren to actually read his books if you have not already done so. I read the quotes provided in the post by Ed and with the exception of maybe one cannot fathom how these are controversial especially when I understand them in the specific context of the books I have read.

What is the specific context?

I think McLaren is a brave voice in the Christian community where ideas are often labeled as heretical when some do not have a clear understanding of what the writer / thinker is saying.

Or when we compare what he is stating with scripture we can determine what is true or not.

Open your heart and mind and then discern how you feel about what he is saying.

That would be assuming my mine and heart aren't open. This is a common verbal trick that says, "Since you don't agree with me then you must be closed minded."

I thinking using Ed's 4 step criteria is a good approach and I also am confident that anyone that will be objective will find some good things in his works. Personally, I have yet to read any Christian author and think that 100% of what they say is accurate or useful.

Yet you believe that about McLaren - interesting.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I feel your statement is completely false.

You have that right.

I would challenge anyone here that would use these kinds of words to describe McLaren to actually read his books if you have not already done so. I read the quotes provided in the post by Ed and with the exception of maybe one cannot fathom how these are controversial especially when I understand them in the specific context of the books I have read.

What is the specific context?

[quote:37u0wdz0]I think McLaren is a brave voice in the Christian community where ideas are often labeled as heretical when some do not have a clear understanding of what the writer / thinker is saying.

Or when we compare what he is stating with scripture we can determine what is true or not.

Open your heart and mind and then discern how you feel about what he is saying.

That would be assuming my mine and heart aren't open. This is a common verbal trick that says, "Since you don't agree with me then you must be closed minded."

I thinking using Ed's 4 step criteria is a good approach and I also am confident that anyone that will be objective will find some good things in his works. Personally, I have yet to read any Christian author and think that 100% of what they say is accurate or useful.

Yet you believe that about McLaren - interesting.[/quote:37u0wdz0]

Have you read McLaren's books or followed him in anyway other than the quotes that you have taken from the internet?

 

[RND]

Have you read McLaren's books or followed him in anyway other than the quotes that you have taken from the internet?

Nope. Wouldn't waste one red cent on his stuff. I have heard him on radio broadcasts and seen him on YouTube and I wholehearted disagree with his mystic doctrine.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Have you read McLaren's books or followed him in anyway other than the quotes that you have taken from the internet?

Nope. Wouldn't waste one red cent on his stuff. I have heard him on radio broadcasts and seen him on YouTube and I wholehearted disagree with his mystic doctrine.

If you have based your assessment on snippet you tube videos and brief radio addresses than I am not surprised. Try reading his books. Very insightful guy. I don't agree with everything he says but he makes a lot of sense that you could indeed say is biblical.

I can speak with a high level of confidence that I know quite a bit about where this man stands with his faith and what he thinks. I don't think you can say the same thing. Until such a time that you can I think it is pretty difficult for you to judge.

 

[RND]

If you have based your assessment on snippet you tube videos and brief radio addresses than I am not surprised. Try reading his books.

You mean the horses mouth isn't good enough?

Very insightful guy.

So was Simon Magus I'm sure.

I don't agree with everything he says but he makes a lot of sense that you could indeed say is biblical.

I wasn't aware that the Bible was about "making sense."

I can speak with a high level of confidence that I know quite a bit about where this man stands with his faith and what he thinks.

I'm sure you "feel" that way. Fact of the matter is that you have no idea what's in the man's heart.

I don't think you can say the same thing.

Wouldn't attempt to.

Until such a time that you can I think it is pretty difficult for you to judge.

Based on what people say I think I can judge that.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

If you have based your assessment on snippet you tube videos and brief radio addresses than I am not surprised. Try reading his books.

You mean the horses mouth isn't good enough?

Very insightful guy.

So was Simon Magus I'm sure.
[quote:11v0ws5e]
I don't agree with everything he says but he makes a lot of sense that you could indeed say is biblical.

I wasn't aware that the Bible was about "making sense."

I can speak with a high level of confidence that I know quite a bit about where this man stands with his faith and what he thinks.

I'm sure you "feel" that way. Fact of the matter is that you have no idea what's in the man's heart.

I don't think you can say the same thing.

Wouldn't attempt to.

Until such a time that you can I think it is pretty difficult for you to judge.

Based on what people say I think I can judge that.[/quote:11v0ws5e]

You make quite a few assumptions based on very little information. This thread is in no way about the bible "making sense" as you reference. I am speaking about McLaren and his thoughts on being a Christian. He does reference the Bible of course and does so in a very insightful fashion. If it is one thing I have learned in my little time as a Christian, very few Christians can agree on what specific passages of the Bible actually mean and many are very quick to call the folks that disagree with their interpretation and label them as ungodly or heretical. It's pretty sad really that fellow Christians can't have a dialogue on what it means to bring the Kingdom of God to Earth without doing this.

I think the same thing happens to McLaren. Like I said, until such a time as you can speak with some authority on McLaren and his thoughts I would urge you to quit labeling something you have no concept of. Just my thoughts. However, you will of course continue to do as you wish.

 

[RND]

You make quite a few assumptions based on very little information.

I've heard the guy speak what more do you want?

This thread is in no way about the bible "making sense" as you reference. I am speaking about McLaren and his thoughts on being a Christian.

He doesn't "sound" Christian to me.

He does reference the Bible of course and does so in a very insightful fashion.

Satan reads the scripture, should I be impressed?

If it is one thing I have learned in my little time as a Christian, very few Christians can agree on what specific passages of the Bible actually mean and many are very quick to call the folks that disagree with their interpretation and label them as ungodly or heretical. It's pretty sad really that fellow Christians can't have a dialogue on what it means to bring the Kingdom of God to Earth without doing this.

Well, that has a lot to do with many factors, primarily the first one is allowing the word of God to speak for and interpret itself - few are willing to do that.

I think the same thing happens to McLaren. Like I said, until such a time as you can speak with some authority on McLaren and his thoughts I would urge you to quit labeling something you have no concept of. Just my thoughts. However, you will of course continue to do as you wish.

That's right, I will. I am dreadfully sorry you disagree with my assessment. I'm certain the roles would be reversed had I bought any of his books.

 

[Ed the Ned]

How widely accepted is Brian Mclaren in the Christian church(es)?

He is listed in the top 25 influencial teachers in the Christianity.

I have yet to read any Christian author and think that 100% of what they say is accurate or useful. - Auro_Hudson

I agree with that comment! That is why I believe thye Bible needs to be taken and digested with a little more reverence than people tend to do at the moment.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Brian McLaren is no different from the hundreds / thousands of Christian authors that write about our faith to try and bring a common understanding to the Bible and tenants of Christianity. I applaud him and other authors for their collective efforts to provide context and interpretations of what we are reading. Often times it is difficult to come to this on our own especially when confronted with so many different views and takes on the gospel.

I think if we step back and understand that no one man or woman can have all of the answers to how this can be done or how to interpret scripture we can learn to appreciate McLaren and others for what the bring to the table. For me, McLaren helped bring me to Christ, he provides a sense of hope that we can bring the Kingdom of God to Earth and that regardless of our religion, culture and other qualities that can be divisive we can all unite and live together with the love of Christ in our hearts.

 

[jasoncran]

food for though aero did jesus come to save man or societies?

 

[jasoncran]

Brian McLaren is no different from the hundreds / thousands of Christian authors that write about our faith to try and bring a common understanding to the Bible and tenants of Christianity. I applaud him and other authors for their collective efforts to provide context and interpretations of what we are reading. Often times it is difficult to come to this on our own especially when confronted with so many different views and takes on the gospel.

I think if we step back and understand that no one man or woman can have all of the answers to how this can be done or how to interpret scripture we can learn to appreciate McLaren and others for what the bring to the table. For me, McLaren helped bring me to Christ, he provides a sense of hope that we can bring the Kingdom of God to Earth and that regardless of our religion, culture and other qualities that can be divisive we can all unite and live together with the love of Christ in our hearts.

if they have christ in their hearts, then all would be christians but then some wont change. are we to usher the kingdom of christ in or is the saints to follow christ in return. verses in the bible to support that.

sometimes when one hears or reads a book the holy spirit will tell you, hey dont read that it's bad for you and full of lies.
or when you listen to someone and they speak and that innerman from the lord, tells you he's not mine, then we ought to obey.
can we be mistaken , maybe. but no often if we really are seeking the Lord.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Brian McLaren is no different from the hundreds / thousands of Christian authors that write about our faith to try and bring a common understanding to the Bible and tenants of Christianity. I applaud him and other authors for their collective efforts to provide context and interpretations of what we are reading. Often times it is difficult to come to this on our own especially when confronted with so many different views and takes on the gospel.

I think if we step back and understand that no one man or woman can have all of the answers to how this can be done or how to interpret scripture we can learn to appreciate McLaren and others for what the bring to the table. For me, McLaren helped bring me to Christ, he provides a sense of hope that we can bring the Kingdom of God to Earth and that regardless of our religion, culture and other qualities that can be divisive we can all unite and live together with the love of Christ in our hearts.

Is the truth broad and all encompassing? Will God allow people to ascend to heaven by other means? How does God feel about Paganism being joined to Him?

 

[veteran]

Brian McLaren is no different from the hundreds / thousands of Christian authors that write about our faith to try and bring a common understanding to the Bible and tenants of Christianity. I applaud him and other authors for their collective efforts to provide context and interpretations of what we are reading. Often times it is difficult to come to this on our own especially when confronted with so many different views and takes on the gospel.

I think if we step back and understand that no one man or woman can have all of the answers to how this can be done or how to interpret scripture we can learn to appreciate McLaren and others for what the bring to the table. For me, McLaren helped bring me to Christ, he provides a sense of hope that we can bring the Kingdom of God to Earth and that regardless of our religion, culture and other qualities that can be divisive we can all unite and live together with the love of Christ in our hearts.

Just based on the few quotes posted already from McLaren is ENOUGH to know he is deceived AWAY from The Salvation that ONLY comes through The Blood of Jesus Christ shed upon the cross. Christ said we cannot serve God AND mammon (Matt.6:24).

I studied many religions and ideas of mystical philosophy in my younger years, so the origins of McLaren's ideas in the quotes, and even YOUR posts, is not difficult recognize. We don't need to read his books to know what doctrines he speaks of in those few quotes already revealed here.

If you have been initiated into one of the occult branches of secret societies that exist today, I beg you to come out of that mess, if you are involved in that. If you've only latched onto those mystic ideas of McLaren through his books, or those of the same ilk, I beg that you leave those and get directly into God's Word line upon line for yourself.

Those in Christ Jesus are to follow His Commandments today, and nowhere did our Lord Jesus tell His servants to start joining nations and RELIGIONS of the world together to try and create His Kingdom to come. Such an idea is like saying GOD needs our help in establishing His Kingdom on this earth. He does not need our help! We are to remain in the field (world) doing the work He gave His servants to do, and that is to preach The Gospel to all nations, have charity, heal the sick, feed the poor, plead for the widow, and protect those who are not able to protect themselves (which I am doing right now). NONE of that involes setting up a fleshy carnal kingdom on this earth by us.

Christ Jesus ONLY, will setup His literal physical Kingdom on this earth WHEN He returns to this earth bodily. Believers are commanded to WAIT upon His return, and, to remain sober and watching for His return. We are NOT commanded to go ahead and build a fleshy kingdom today on earth and claim it as His Kingdom that will only come when Christ returns to this earth, in Person as written.

The idea that Christians are to actually create a carnal fleshy version of Christ's Kingdom upon this earth today is a false teaching from the same ones who proposed the ideas of the 'brotherhood, liberty, equality, fraternity', etc., the watchwords of the Jacobin Clubs that took part in the French Revolution.
.