Essential vs Nonessential

[JLB]

John died a corporeal death. Do you distinguish between physical and spiritual death?

-

Joh 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;"

• not 3 conditions, but 3 factual characteristics
  • those of His fold hear (from the heart / mind) His voice
  • they (their heart / mind) are known by the Lord
  • those of His fold follow (in His way, as a disciple) the Lord

Joh 10:28 And I give eternal life to them, and they shall not perish to the age, never! And not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

• not physical life, but a life characterized as perpetual, everlasting
• they shall not be destroyed / die spiritually / perish
• those of His fold are in His hand

What does it mean to you "they shall not perish"?

Are you teaching this forum that Christians have the option whether to forgive or harbor unforgiveness and whether to love or hate, and still inherit eternal life?

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:14-15



JLB

 

[chessman]

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a ________, and the truth is not in him?

A. Liar
or
B. believer
or
C. exbeliever

Your argument for this verse says C.

Third opportunity to strengthen your case here:

In accordance with John 5:28-29, when someone's body comes from the grave who has believed/obeyed the Lord (i.e. done a good thing) will this person resurrect to:
A. life
or
B. judgment?

 

[JLB]

Does this apply to the level of contempt displayed between OSAS and OSNAS 'brothers' on thread after thread here?

i have no contempt, for people, I do have contempt for the false doctrine that deceives my brothers and sisters.


If you have unforgiveness or hatred against someone, I urge you to forgive them, and confess your sin to the Lord who is faithful to cleanse you and forgive you.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

If you harbor unforgiveness and hatred, and don't go to Him, and confess your sins, to forgiven and cleansed, you will be in danger of losing the very forgiveness of sins you once had, in which you will have the pay the penalty for those sins yourself.

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:32-35

and again

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:14-15




JLB

 

[JLB]

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a ________, and the truth is not in him?

A. Liar
or
B. believer
or
C. exbeliever

Your argument for this verse says C. Thus your case is weak (very weak).

I don't have an argument, I just have what the scripture says.

Here is what 1 John 2:3-4 says.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4

We are to obey Jesus, and do what He says.

All liars will have there part in the lake of fire.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

I can't speak for everyone, but I have had to repent of so many things over the years, that I was doing that was evil, because I listened to the false OSAS doctrine from preachers who promoted this doctrine.

God loves us dearly but requires us to obey Him more and more as we grow and mature in the Lord.

If you have unforgiveness or hatred against someone, I urge you to forgive them, and confess your sin to the Lord who is faithful to cleanse you and forgive you.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

If you harbor unforgiveness and hatred, and don't go to Him, and confess your sins, to forgiven and cleansed, you will be in danger of losing the very forgiveness of sins you once had, in which you will have the pay the penalty for those sins yourself.

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:32-35

and again

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:14-15



JLB

 

[atpollard]

Deleted ... Nothing good will come from this.

 

[chessman]

I don't have an argument,

Correct. You have no valid argument nor Scripture that speaks of lose of salvation nor answers to people's questions as has been demonstrated over and over.

I just have what the scripture says.

John 1 2:3-4 speaks of a man who has lied about knowing Him, not about a man who once knew Him then stopped knowing Him (an exbeliever).
You have no argument that this passage (or any others) demonstrates lose of salvation. Zero!

We are to obey Jesus, and do what He says.

Correct. The only people I've seen make a claim otherwise are the anti-OSAS side falsely claiming OSAS teaches disobedience.

All liars will have there part in the lake of fire.

Correct. Luckily, believers are a new creation sealed with the Holy Spirit.

BTW, has anybody ever falsely claimed to know Jesus?

I listened to the false OSAS doctrine from preachers who promoted this doctrine.

Has anyone ever told you (or have you ever told someone else) that some bodies will come from the grave who have believed/obeyed the Lord (i.e. done good) yet will they perish in the judgment of a second death?

John 5:29 and they will come out—those who have done good things to a resurrection of life, but those who have practiced evil things to a resurrection of judgment. ​

 

[FreeGrace]

We are actually taught from the scriptures, just the opposite.

By this, is meant that SOME OF THOSE Jesus gives eternal life SHALL perish??

What does John 10:28 say specifically about those Jesus gives eternal life?

 

[MarkT]

NO THERE IS NOT A VERSE THAT USES THE WORD "MOMENT".

Now, about about returning to reality and deal with the clear implications of John 5:24 as to WHEN one HAS eternal life.

According to what Jesus said in John 5:24, when do YOU think one HAS eternal life?

There's no moment of belief. Beliefs change. The Jews who had believed in him afterwards took up stones to throw at him. They believed he was the Christ, then they said he had a demon. John 8:31-59

 

[MarkT]

By this, is meant that SOME OF THOSE Jesus gives eternal life SHALL perish??

What does John 10:28 say specifically about those Jesus gives eternal life?

John 10:22-30, Jesus said, 'you are not my sheep.' He said, 'I know my sheep and my sheep follow me'. He said he gives his sheep eternal life. So what do we know about his sheep? We know Jesus knows his sheep, and we know his sheep follow him, and we know Jesus gives his sheep eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Nowhere does it say anything about exChristians receiving eternal life.

 

[Gregg T]

Are you teaching this forum that Christians have the option whether to forgive or harbor unforgiveness and whether to love or hate, and still inherit eternal life?

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:14-15



JLB

You replied to my post w/o answering my 2 questions, and as usual redirected to something else.

I do not think you are interested in discussion or dialogue, or perhaps to understand why someone else interprets Scripture differently.

I will no longer respond to your posts. Please accept this without a reply, unless you need to have the last word.

 

[WIP]

This thread was hijacked long ago. All points from all positions have been expressed multiple times. It's gone full circle so many times the readers are getting dizzy. Time to shut it down.