TULIP - Irresistible Grace

[brightfame52]

GodsGrace

1 Timothy 2:1-4

1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


If God wants ALL MENT TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth....

THEN WHY aren't they saved?
Why aren't they coming to the truth?

You tell us. I do know that its Christs responsibility to save all whom God the Father wants to be saved and come into the Truth. So did Christ succeed in doing His Fathers will ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Except all you are reading is an uninspired translation of the Greek 2,000 years ago that is translated into today's English. Plus you are not willing to listen to other inspired writers that might help you understand what Paul meant. You grab one interpretation that you like and will not let anything change your mind.

People become Calvinists by being open minded and let all the Scriptures educate them on what is true, even if that truth goes against everything they have been taught.

Today's humanistic church: God loves everybody and sent Jesus for the purpose of saving every human being.

The Lord: Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand

Now you are going to bring of the context and say "it was about God breaking Assyria etc. . ."

So what? That does not annul what God said as being a fact that stands for everything God says or purposes.
If you believe God says that He desires all people without exception to be saved, then that will come to pass.
But we know that it doesn't come to pass, so that cannot be what God has purposed.
If Paul meant that God desires all kinds of people from every nation and language and tribe to be saved, then that will come to pass, and that is exactly what Scripture tells us.

No Whatever...
The other side does not believe that God is ONLY love.
This is a strawman made up by those on your side of the isle.

GOD IS ALSO JUST.
But in reformed theology God is NOT just.
He is an unjust God.

I've asked many times now, not to you, what JUST means but I never get an answer from a Calvinist.
Why?
Because if they answered and understood their answer, they'd have to abandon Calvinism
immediately.

If you care to give it a try...go ahead.

Like you I believe it would be fair for God to save everybody. But who am I to talk back against God. So I let Scripture change my mind about what is fair. That makes me a Calvinist.

NO.
It would not be fair for God to save all of humanity.

What IS fair is what is taught in scripture:

Those that believe in God and obey God will be saved.
Simple.

Those that do not believe cannot be saved because they REFUSE the very God that created them.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot * deny Himself.

If we deny Jesus, HE will also deny us.
Verse 13 God remains faithful and will not deny Himself.
God keeps His promises...and one of them is to save those that DESIRE to be saved.

Acts 16:31
31And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace



You tell us. I do know that its Christs responsibility to save all whom God the Father wants to be saved and come into the Truth. So did Christ succeed in doing His Fathers will ?

BF
You don't seem to understand.

YOU are creating a God that is weak and unable to achieve His goals.

IF God wants to save all men....
then all men SHOULD BE SAVED.

BUT
they are NOT.

So something else is at play here that YOU do not want to recognize.

What is at play here is man's Free Will and how it relates to the OP
of the I in TULIP....Irresisstible grace.

IF grace were truly irresistible....ALL MEN WOULD BE SAVED
BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS.

So, APPARENTLY, BF,,,,grace IS resistible and man has the Free Will
to either ACCEPT God's grace or REJECT it.

You see, reformed theology causes great conflicts in scripture.

Please read carefully and try to understand what the NT teaches.

God wishes that all men be saved...

BUT not all men WANT to be saved.

It is not due to God's weakness that His desire is not fulfilled..
it's due to man's Free Will to REJECT God's grace.

GRACE IS RESISTIBLE.

 

[brightfame52]

BF
You don't seem to understand.

YOU are creating a God that is weak and unable to achieve His goals.

IF God wants to save all men....
then all men SHOULD BE SAVED.

BUT
they are NOT.

So something else is at play here that YOU do not want to recognize.

What is at play here is man's Free Will and how it relates to the OP
of the I in TULIP....Irresisstible grace.

IF grace were truly irresistible....ALL MEN WOULD BE SAVED
BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS.

So, APPARENTLY, BF,,,,grace IS resistible and man has the Free Will
to either ACCEPT God's grace or REJECT it.

You see, reformed theology causes great conflicts in scripture.

Please read carefully and try to understand what the NT teaches.

God wishes that all men be saved...

BUT not all men WANT to be saved.

It is not due to God's weakness that His desire is not fulfilled..
it's due to man's Free Will to REJECT God's grace.

GRACE IS RESISTIBLE.

Who is responsible for saving the people God wants to be saved ? Did God send anyone for that purpose ?

 

[brightfame52]

Grace is irresistible since its the New Birth, being made a New Creature, being made alive. How can a dead person resist being made alive, being resurrected from the dead ?

 

[JLB]

Okay so Preaching the Gospel is for the saved.

Preaching the Gospel is for the unsaved; by believing they become saved.

 

[JLB]

This wasn't to go out and try to get people saved, but it was to go out and instruct, and disciple people Jesus had already saved.

Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”
Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
Acts 9:1-5

Do you believe Saul was already saved when he encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus?

 

[JLB]

Grace is irresistible since its the New Birth, being made a New Creature, being made alive. How can a dead person resist being made alive, being resurrected from the dead ?

That’s Universalism.

 

[Whatever]

GOD IS ALSO JUST

God is also power and wrath.

Romans 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction

You want me to give you a human understanding of Just. But man's ideas of just is just that - ideas.

Isaiah 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Here is one non Calvinists view of a just God:
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." ~ Richard Dawkins

 

[Whatever]

If you recall,,,there are many in the OT that were saved BY FAITH.
Had they known about Jesus?
NO.

But they had faith in Yaweh....in GOD.

Yes, because Yahweh gave Israel revelation.
Psalm 147:19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!

Psalm79:6 Pour out Your wrath on the nations that do not know You, And on the kingdoms that do not call on Your name.

Jeremiah 10:25 Pour out Your fury on the Gentiles, who do not know You
1 Corinthians 10:20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.

Isaiah 65:11 "But you are those who forsake the LORD, Who forget My holy mountain, Who prepare a table for Gad, And who furnish a drink offering for Meni.

 

[Whatever]

WHY do you post ONLY from the OT??

I post from whichever passages that make my point.

 

[deepfaithpraise]

I think there's a misunderstanding about Calvinism…
It isn't a super special sort of Christianity…
It is Christianity plain and simple.

I got genuinely saved after a diy sinner's prayer while on bond facing 15 years in prison. On the surface it was yet another "loser getting religion."

12 years later my life is vastly improved. My faith is still growing and my life bears witness to Jesus Christ and His mercy towards His sheep .

And that's the thing…
The sheep know His voice and nothing can snatch a single one from His hand…
But it's not the individual who chooses to believe and keeps on believing somehow growing ever more iron willed in their chosen commitment to Christ.

I came to my senses because Christ called me to believe upon Him and be saved. I'm not special now and I certainly wasn't special then…

It's mercy it's God's good pleasure His inscrutable will…

His word will not return void.

The journey reminded me so much of what I've read about God's sovereignty and how it shapes our understanding of salvation and grace.

---

Your journey illustrates some fascinating psychological and theological principles.

What you've experienced reflects what we often see in profound life transformations. Your moment of crisis (facing prison time) created what psychologists call a "cognitive opening" - a moment when old patterns of thinking become vulnerable to change. But unlike temporary crisis-induced changes, your transformation has shown lasting fruit over 12 years, suggesting something deeper than a mere emotional response.

Historically, the theological position you're describing - often called "monergism" - has deep roots in Christian thought. While Augustine laid early groundwork for these ideas in the 5th century, they found fullest expression during the Reformation through Calvin and others. This understanding that God initiates and completes salvation stands in contrast to the "synergistic" view that emphasizes human cooperation with divine grace.

What's particularly interesting is how your personal experience aligns with this theological framework. Your story illustrates what theologians call "effectual calling" - the idea that when God calls His elect, the response is certain. This isn't just abstract theology but lived reality for you.

Your journey from facing prison to a transformed life stands as a powerful witness to God's work in the world today. Thank you for sharing it with us.

What aspects of your faith journey have been most surprising to you over these 12 years?

 

[Whatever]

IF grace were truly irresistible....ALL MEN WOULD BE SAVED
BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS.

That shows you don't really understand TULIP.

 

[Whatever]

GRACE IS RESISTIBLE.

Yes. some of God's grace is resistible.

Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

"For many are called (invited), but few are chosen (elected)."

The invitation is resistible, but the election is not resistible.

Notice, I did not just post from the OT.

 

[Christ_empowered]

---

Your journey illustrates some fascinating psychological and theological principles.

What you've experienced reflects what we often see in profound life transformations. Your moment of crisis (facing prison time) created what psychologists call a "cognitive opening" - a moment when old patterns of thinking become vulnerable to change. But unlike temporary crisis-induced changes, your transformation has shown lasting fruit over 12 years, suggesting something deeper than a mere emotional response.

Historically, the theological position you're describing - often called "monergism" - has deep roots in Christian thought. While Augustine laid early groundwork for these ideas in the 5th century, they found fullest expression during the Reformation through Calvin and others. This understanding that God initiates and completes salvation stands in contrast to the "synergistic" view that emphasizes human cooperation with divine grace.

What's particularly interesting is how your personal experience aligns with this theological framework. Your story illustrates what theologians call "effectual calling" - the idea that when God calls His elect, the response is certain. This isn't just abstract theology but lived reality for you.

Your journey from facing prison to a transformed life stands as a powerful witness to God's work in the world today. Thank you for sharing it with us.

What aspects of your faith journey have been most surprising to you over these 12 years?

Hi thanks for your thoughtful post.

I think…I’m often surprised by how hated basic Christianity is at all strata of society. I mean…just read the Bible apply to life pray etc. and…

At first I thought it was concentrated among people with advanced degrees. My few friends at the time of my genuine conversion were well educated and some of them were openly hostile and then dropped off the radar. And then…

My life continued and I came to see that living in the Bible Belt can be a little bit crazy making because of all the churches ️ and church people and church subcultures….

The culture as a whole is just as anti christ as anywhere else although I do think Christianity has something of a restraining effect that maybe isn’t the case elsewhere?


I’ve also found that I’m not an effeminate homosexual now. Not heterosexual and straight men in particular can spot a gay lol but not effeminate not…off putting in basic socially important ways if that makes sense. It’s strange to me because my…schizophrenia or whatever…is more of an issue but I’m a much more normal human being overall.

I think having my parents in my life on good terms and…yeah that’s something of a miracle for me. We had a delightful day trip recently and it dawned on me that this was never guaranteed and this offends some folks sensibilities, their understanding of right and wrong.

Maybe that’s the big thing? That Gods work is amazing and beautiful yet it’s always against the grain?

Ok thanks again.