TULIP - Irresistible Grace

Where does it say Noah wasnt elect ?

Please post the scripture that says Noah was elect.

You are the one that made the claim that Noah was elect, not me.

The burden of proof is on you to post a scripture that says Noah was the elect.

You are the one that also said Noah was Totally Depraved.

Please show us the scripture that indicates that Noah was totally depraved.


I said Noah became…. Because he obeyed the word of faith.

I posted the scripture for this.
 
Ok. So no scripture denying the Sovereignty of God.

You have no scripture that uses the phrase Sovereignty of God.

Like I said, I will have to rely on you to explain what that means, since I don’t have a scriptural frame of reference to go by.


So please explain what the Sovereignty of God means.
 
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?
Actually BF,,,,JLB has given you several verses stating that not all men are depraved.

But, I'd like to take this a step further and ask you:
Since man is totally depraved....which just means morally corrupt in his pre-salvation state...
John Calvin taught that this causes man to have no free will and thus is UNABLE TO SEEK GOD.

Could YOU post some verses that state that man is unable to seek God??
 
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?

The Bible doesn’t mention that people are totally depraved.

That’s the point.

Obviously your claim that all mankind is totally depraved is an unbiblical concept since you can not back it up with scripture.

Noah became the heir of the righteousness of faith when he obeyed the word of faith.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7


The action of his obedience to to God’s word by which we receive faith, is how he became righteous; the righteousness of faith.

This principle of faith is called the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Romans 16:26
 
JLB



You have no scripture saying God isnt Sovereign

Exactly. There is no scripture that uses the phrase the Sovereignty of God.

We are all waiting for you to tell us what it means.
 
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?

There is no scripture for us to study that mentions Totally Depraved.


Can you tell us what it means so we can understanding what you are teaching?

What does it mean to be totally depraved?

I listed the scripture about Noah.

Why do you believe Noah totally depraved?
 
Then thats an attack on Gods Sovereignty as I see it, and elevating the creatures will over Gods.
Sovereignty simply means God’s ability and right to rule the world.

Calvinism sees God's sovereignty as determining human will. It results in a fatalist determinism.

Christianity, by contrast, sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will through infallible foreknowledge.

The two cannot be further apart. Calvinism's sovereignty, divine determinism, is the belief that God determines, causes, and orchestrates everything in history according to His preconceived plan, including sin and evil. This is where Calvinism and Islam are nearly identical in their understanding of God. The God of Calvinism / Islam acts with pure will, even above and contra-reason. The God of Calvinism / Islam is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism / Islam, God acts Voluntas. This is why you have no problem calling God a rapist of Mary, forcing Himself upon her against her will. In Calvinism / Islam, God can and even does deceive. This again is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. For example, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)

To the Christian, this is incompatible with the God revealed by Jesus Christ. The God of Christianity is a God of Logos, that is one who acts with reason and Word. This Word is intelligible, creative and able to communicate Himself. Simply put, if God is not Logos but instead pure will (like Calvinism / Islam), then simply saying God is Logos immediately places a limit upon Him. If God is pure will, then anything that is can be the opposite of what it is, and then nothing would be what it truly is. God would thus be able to command something which is evil to be good and something which is good to be evil, so that all man knows is the will of God.
 
Actually BF,,,,JLB has given you several verses stating that not all men are depraved.

But, I'd like to take this a step further and ask you:
Since man is totally depraved....which just means morally corrupt in his pre-salvation state...
John Calvin taught that this causes man to have no free will and thus is UNABLE TO SEEK GOD.

Could YOU post some verses that state that man is unable to seek God??
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?
 
The Bible doesn’t mention that people are totally depraved.

That’s the point.

Obviously your claim that all mankind is totally depraved is an unbiblical concept since you can not back it up with scripture.

Noah became the heir of the righteousness of faith when he obeyed the word of faith.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7


The action of his obedience to to God’s word by which we receive faith, is how he became righteous; the righteousness of faith.

This principle of faith is called the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Romans 16:26
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?
 
There is no scripture for us to study that mentions Totally Depraved.


Can you tell us what it means so we can understanding what you are teaching?

What does it mean to be totally depraved?

I listed the scripture about Noah.

Why do you believe Noah totally depraved?
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?
 
Sovereignty simply means God’s ability and right to rule the world.

Calvinism sees God's sovereignty as determining human will. It results in a fatalist determinism.

Christianity, by contrast, sees God's sovereignty as incorporating human will through infallible foreknowledge.

The two cannot be further apart. Calvinism's sovereignty, divine determinism, is the belief that God determines, causes, and orchestrates everything in history according to His preconceived plan, including sin and evil. This is where Calvinism and Islam are nearly identical in their understanding of God. The God of Calvinism / Islam acts with pure will, even above and contra-reason. The God of Calvinism / Islam is unconstrained by any principle or any reason and hence capriciousness is essential to His very nature. Thus He can and does act completely arbitrarily. In Calvinism / Islam, God acts Voluntas. This is why you have no problem calling God a rapist of Mary, forcing Himself upon her against her will. In Calvinism / Islam, God can and even does deceive. This again is because they believe God acts with pure will. Therefore, He is not even bound by His own commands. For example, Calvin taught God deceives people by illumining their minds into thinking they are elect, only to pull the rug out from under them at the end...

“Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.” (Institutes, 3.2.11)

To the Christian, this is incompatible with the God revealed by Jesus Christ. The God of Christianity is a God of Logos, that is one who acts with reason and Word. This Word is intelligible, creative and able to communicate Himself. Simply put, if God is not Logos but instead pure will (like Calvinism / Islam), then simply saying God is Logos immediately places a limit upon Him. If God is pure will, then anything that is can be the opposite of what it is, and then nothing would be what it truly is. God would thus be able to command something which is evil to be good and something which is good to be evil, so that all man knows is the will of God.
Then thats an attack on Gods Sovereignty as I see it, and elevating the creatures will over Gods. Its being claimed a little girl is the decision maker on whether or not God shall carry out His Divine purposes.
 
Where does it say all men are not totally depraved ?

Totally Depraved is not mentioned in scripture.

Please explain what the phrase Totally Depraved means.
 
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