Eternal Security Poll

[Ret]

I voted 'NO other' basically because I connect 'born again' and being 'sealed' together.

because God seals a born again believer w/ the Holy Spirit until redemption

I believe being 'born again' and the 'sealing' of God w/ the Holy Spirit is the process involving Justification and Sanctification. Justification begins the process that continues in and with sanctification. When sanctification has done it's work, the process ends with the participant being sealed. The recipient will never again revert to a former condition of or in the flesh, because God keeps him!

Be Blessed

 

[Joe67]

I have voted, now. I voted for: all the above "No" answers.

Solo, pardon me for getting extra material in the thread. I spoke of the Judaizers because you had mentioned their "heresy" in your post just previous to mine. I understand you do not want to get distracted from your goal.


StoveBolts, even though we voted differently, I found your post to have a lot of substance.

Joe

 

[Imagican]

15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Well now, let's see.............

If ye forgive NOT men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive YOUR tresspasses.

And:

NOT EVERY ONE that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.

MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done MANY wonderful words?
And then will I profess to them, I never KNEW you: depart from me, yer that work iniquity.

By these words we can CLEARLY SEE that here are TWO conditions upon which the BELIEVER CAN VERY WELL, NOT receive the gift that has been offered. FIRST: forgiveness CAN be denied. Second, if one does not DO the WILL of God, these too are able to be UTTERLY DENIED by Christ. Even those that DO what they do IN THE NAME OF Christ, MANY of these Christ does NOT EVEN KNOW.

Now, many would offer OSAS. Others would contend that IF SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. I offer that scripture does NOT back either of these. For we ALSO KNOW that it's BETTER that one NEVER come to the TRUTH than to learn of it and then TURN AWAY. This TOO clearly shows that one IS able to TURN AWAY.

So, what I see in OSAS is a 'false doctrine' that was NEVER taught by the apostles or ANY other than some of the modern churches that have attempted to offer their OWN 'form' of FORGIVENESS. Attempting to reconcile themselves OUTSIDE of that which has been offered in truth. Creating their OWN doctrines based on THEIR OWN FEELINGS rather than pure words offered up by Christ OR His apostles. Choosing to 'talk around the truth' rather than simply accepting it AS OFFERED.

It would certainly be NICE to believe that ONCE one IS SAVED that there is NO WAY, NO MATTER WHAT, that they could LOSE this. But, in truth, this entire concept seems to reek of the SAME promise offered to Eve in the garden by the serpent. "What God says isn't REALLY true". He just doesn't WANT you to know the truth for then you'd be LIKE HIM.

We are NOT able to offer our OWN forgiveness in a manner that MATTERS except to EACH OTHER. As we can clearly see from the scripture above, something as simple as REFUSING to forgive one's neighbor is ENOUGH for one NOT to receive forgiveness from the Father.

Now, for those that preach this OSAS, I have a question. You say that IF or ONCE one IS 'saved', then at this point, they CANNOT be LOST. Question: WHEN; at WHAT POINT is one guaranteed this forgiveness. At WHAT point in their walk ARE THEY SAVED. At WHAT POINT can they REST in their assurance that NOTHING that they CAN DO is able to separate them from God or Christ?

For you SEE, it's REAL EASY to talk a pretty GOOD GAME until faced with the truth. And the truth will ALWAYS be revealed and so will 'false teaching'. I can answer the OPPOSITE question, now how many of those that preach this OSAS can answer the question AS POSED.

Beware, for what you offer is what you will be confronted on. That means IF you decide to offer some 'lame explanation' or 'answer', I WILL BE HERE TO POINT IT OUT.

We ARE to serve in FEAR AND TREMBLING FOLKS, not some complacent belief that ONCE we COME to Christ that we are immune to judgement. If ANYTHING, we; those that profess to BE SAVED will be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than those that DON'T. READ the Word AS IT IS OFFERED and there will no longer BE any confusion over this issue.

Yeah, I guess if you 'pick and choose' ENOUGH scripture you MAY well be ABLE to convince yourself of OSAS. Especially if you can find 'others' that WANT to believe in this as well. But IF you take it AS A WHOLE, there is NO WAY possible to reconcile it IN The Word. We are NOT able, in the flesh, to offer up judgement on OURSELVES. And that is EXACTLY what this doctrine of OSAS attempts to convince those that allow themselves to be 'drawn into it'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Solo]

I have voted, now. I voted for: all the above "No" answers.

Solo, pardon me for getting extra material in the thread. I spoke of the Judaizers because you had mentioned their "heresy" in your post just previous to mine. I understand you do not want to get distracted from your goal.


StoveBolts, even though we voted differently, I found your post to have a lot of substance.

Joe

Thanks Joe.

I have really answered your question in the Judaizer heresy thread. If not, ask me again, and I will spend time and look at it.

Thanks,

Solo

 

[francisdesales]

Yeah, I guess if you 'pick and choose' ENOUGH scripture you MAY well be ABLE to convince yourself of OSAS. Especially if you can find 'others' that WANT to believe in this as well. But IF you take it AS A WHOLE, there is NO WAY possible to reconcile it IN The Word. We are NOT able, in the flesh, to offer up judgement on OURSELVES. And that is EXACTLY what this doctrine of OSAS attempts to convince those that allow themselves to be 'drawn into it'.

Wow, I agree with you.

I knew eventually I would...

Regards

 

[Solo]

Question: WHEN; at WHAT POINT is one guaranteed this forgiveness. At WHAT point in their walk ARE THEY SAVED.

• 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
  John 3:15-18

At WHAT POINT can they REST in their assurance that NOTHING that they CAN DO is able to separate them from God or Christ?

• 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
  Romans 8:31-39

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

I accept the scripture offered. But it MUST be placed into proper context. To believe that it is LITERAL and without 'stipulation' is to believe that the REST of what is offered, (I have already pointed to JUST a couple of conditions), is somehow 'null and void'.

If these two examples are what you or ANYONE would use to base DOCTRINE upon, without the consideration of ALL other scripture, then they are taking an extremely perilous step in a quite tricky direction. While the statements ARE in FACT true, they are by FAR, ALL the truth pertaining to what has been offered.

We find that one of the commandments is, "Thou shalt not kill". Is this LITERAL? Or are there situations that have arisen EVEN AFTER the commandment given, that killing was actually COMMANDED by God?

The gist of this discussion is basically the SAME principle. Yes, them that believe ARE given LIFE eternal, BUT. The But is the part that OSAS seems to ignore in favor of acceptance of ONLY A PART of the equation.

If the statements that you offered were ALL that we HAD to base a doctrine upon, Solo, perhaps it WOULD 'hold water'. But since what you have offered is ONLY a SMALL PART of what we have been offered, I find it difficult to see how doctrine CAN be formed from such.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Solo]

Solo,

I accept the scripture offered. But it MUST be placed into proper context. To believe that it is LITERAL and without 'stipulation' is to believe that the REST of what is offered, (I have already pointed to JUST a couple of conditions), is somehow 'null and void'.

If these two examples are what you or ANYONE would use to base DOCTRINE upon, without the consideration of ALL other scripture, then they are taking an extremely perilous step in a quite tricky direction. While the statements ARE in FACT true, they are by FAR, ALL the truth pertaining to what has been offered.

We find that one of the commandments is, "Thou shalt not kill". Is this LITERAL? Or are there situations that have arisen EVEN AFTER the commandment given, that killing was actually COMMANDED by God?

The gist of this discussion is basically the SAME principle. Yes, them that believe ARE given LIFE eternal, BUT. The But is the part that OSAS seems to ignore in favor of acceptance of ONLY A PART of the equation.

If the statements that you offered were ALL that we HAD to base a doctrine upon, Solo, perhaps it WOULD 'hold water'. But since what you have offered is ONLY a SMALL PART of what we have been offered, I find it difficult to see how doctrine CAN be formed from such.

Blessings,

MEC

Mike,

I know that my God is able to secure me in His salvation, paid for by His only begotten son, and sealed by Himself, the Holy Spirit. All other teachings are bogus. I used to believe that one could lose their salvation when I was a babe in Christ and could not eat the meat of the Word, but only the milk of the word, until God grew me up and taught me the truth.

Let me explain about being born again, born from above, born of God.

Being born of God IS NOT:

a person is forgiven of his past sins, and he better live according to God's laws ever after, otherwise he will no longer be saved.

Being born of God IS:

a person is a NEW CREATURE never, ever, having been in existance prior to being born of the Spirit. This NEW CREATURE is spirit within a corrupt, mortal flesh, and is forgiven of any and all sins based on an innocent man paying the penalty for each and every sin. NO MAN in the flesh is able to keep the ten commandments as they are the school master teaching all that they need a Savior. The fleshly man will die and will not enter into the kingdom of God; BUT the NEW CREATURE has access into the kingdom of God because he/she is IN CHRIST JESUS, and the Holy Spirit has sealed ALL born again, born of God believers with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. At that time the corrupt, mortal body will resurrect into an incorruptible, immortal, glorified body just like Jesus after the resurrection.

What will be sent to eternal condemnation?

• The NEW CREATURE born of God?
  NO!
  
  The resurrected incorruptible, immortal, glorified body?
  NO!

It took God a few years to teach me that I was in error concerning conditional salvation; but He is faithful and true, and those who are prayerfully seeking His truth through His wisdom and understanding will come to know this truth as well.

Concerning the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" is a righteous law of God. Jesus quotes it as, "Thou shalt not murder." All killing is not unrighteous, otherwise God would never command it to be done. The Israelites were commanded to kill adulterers, murderers, and in enemies in warfare.

Rightly dividing the truth of the Word of God is only possible through the Holy Spirit, and spiritual maturity. A believer that does not build upon the foundation of Christ as Peter teaches in 2 Peter 1:5-11 will be stunted in his/her growth. Many unbelievers believe themselves to be born again, and they will never understand the spiritual things of God until they are born again.

Michael

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

You'll get NO arguement concerning what has been offered in conviction through The Holy Spirit. If you have reached a point that you are secure in your faith, then far be it from me to question or challenge this.

Your words are both heart felt and encouraging is all else I can offer here.

God Bless you, my brother,

MEC

 

[Armor of God]

Wow, about 40% of people in this poll think they can lose their salvation? It's distressing to see.

It's sad to think that Christians believe God can revoke his irrevocable gift of grace from you. You did nothing to earn it, He gives it freely, and yet so many think there is something you can do to lose it and be lost again. If I had to live my life under the idea that God's love is conditional and salvation was revokeable, I would be a walking pile of stress and anxiety thinking that tomorrow would be the day God said "enough" and threw me to the curb for making a mistake. If we really could lose what God promises to us for eternity than Christianity would be no different than any of the other works based religions at that point.

I'm praying for the ones here lost under bad teachings and that God will bring truth into your lives.

 

[mutzrein]

Wow, about 40% of people in this poll think they can lose their salvation? It's distressing to see.
.
.
.
I'm praying for the ones here lost under bad teachings and that God will bring truth into your lives.

Eh? How can they be lost?

Can we with open hearts deny that God is able to keep those whom he has chosen to make His own - even though they not believe it?

As for me I cannot vote because I don’t believe the questions posed can adequately reflect the meaning of it all.

 

[francisdesales]

Wow, about 40% of people in this poll think they can lose their salvation? It's distressing to see.

It's sad to think that Christians believe God can revoke his irrevocable gift of grace from you. You did nothing to earn it, He gives it freely, and yet so many think there is something you can do to lose it and be lost again.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them2 Peter 2:20-21


It's sad that people choose to invent a theology that clearly cannot be supported by the totality of Scriptures. Note, the person - saved. Escaped the pollutions of the world. Then fell away. Note further, WORSE OFF than before...

OSAS is a false pipe dream that allows people to falsely presume THEY can do nothing to throw away their salvation freely given. God won't. We can.

Regards

 

[XTruth]

Wow, about 40% of people in this poll think they can lose their salvation? It's distressing to see.

It's sad to think that Christians believe God can revoke his irrevocable gift of grace from you. You did nothing to earn it, He gives it freely, and yet so many think there is something you can do to lose it and be lost again. If I had to live my life under the idea that God's love is conditional and salvation was revokeable, I would be a walking pile of stress and anxiety thinking that tomorrow would be the day God said "enough" and threw me to the curb for making a mistake. If we really could lose what God promises to us for eternity than Christianity would be no different than any of the other works based religions at that point.

I'm praying for the ones here lost under bad teachings and that God will bring truth into your lives.

You talk like God either gave everyone this gift, or chose some to give it to but left others out. Neither is true. Can you provide proof that grace is irrevocable? I can give meaning plain and clear statements that grace is not. Join us in the eternal security thread if you feel so strongly about your belief.

 

[Armor of God]

Eh? How can they be lost?

When I say lost I mean they are being lead down the wrong path by bad teachers with bad theology.

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us at the moment of salvation, that salvation can never be lost. We are sealed by the holy spirit. Yes, we may lose rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ because of ongoing and unrepeated sin in our lives. However, that does not mean we are no longer saved.

From some of the faulty interpretations of scripture I read on forums like this, I definitely pray for people to receive God's truth. I hope they may find a good bible believing church.

 

[XTruth]

Eh? How can they be lost?

When I say lost I mean they are being lead down the wrong path by bad teachers with bad theology.

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us at the moment of salvation, that salvation can never be lost. We are sealed by the holy spirit. Yes, we may lose rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ because of ongoing and unrepeated sin in our lives. However, that does not mean we are no longer saved.

From some of the faulty interpretations of scripture I read on forums like this, I definitely pray for people to receive God's truth. I hope they may find a good bible believing church.

The Holy Spirit is the guarantee, not eternal salvation...go to the thread we're suppose to be in

 

[Armor of God]

Here are some verses for those who falsely believe we can lose our salvation:

John 10: 27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Hebrews 13:5 Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,â€Â

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

 

[Entropic_Prodigy]

I chose the "Yes, salvation is conditional; one must work to keep it" even though I don't neccesarily like the phrasing.

It's conditional in the way that only those who confess Jesus as their savior will have salvation, and only those who don't stray from the flock and continue with faith will be saved. It's possible to lose your salvation by walking away from Christ, and if you consider walking with Christ to be work, then I guess you have to work to keep your salvation.

 

[XTruth]

Here are some verses for those who falsely believe we can lose our salvation:

John 10: 27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Hebrews 13:5 Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,â€Â

Romans 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Wow.....Go to the right thread if you think you have a leg to stand on. It is the one about eternal security...about 15 pages long...go

 

[Solo]

As for me I cannot vote because I don’t believe the questions posed can adequately reflect the meaning of it all.

That is why there are two answers for other; a "yes - other" and a "no - other" answer, so that you can elaborate.

 

[mutzrein]

Eh? How can they be lost?

When I say lost I mean they are being lead down the wrong path by bad teachers with bad theology.

When the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us at the moment of salvation, that salvation can never be lost. We are sealed by the holy spirit. Yes, we may lose rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ because of ongoing and unrepeated sin in our lives. However, that does not mean we are no longer saved.

From some of the faulty interpretations of scripture I read on forums like this, I definitely pray for people to receive God's truth. I hope they may find a good bible believing church.

Pardon? If we have unrepented sin in our lives doesn't that make us sinners? Doesn't sin lead to death and doesn't scripture tell us that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God? It's not a matter of losing rewards. It is a matter of treating with contempt the precious gift of life God has given us. And such a one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.