EV or ICE

[jasonc]

I'm getting old .

In the future I predict .
.a restaurant wont have servers in person but perhaps a portal to order or a robot that looks quite human .

Humans already can't function without the internet and don't interact in person as much . See where I'm going .it's not the tech but how we are easily manipulated by big tech to see things and also lack of privacy .


I would be hypocritical if I didn't mention in a junkie but I know that with me if the temetria system at work too a dump the other two workers couldn't switch to havdwriting and charlie mike and complete a route and know them .I had a guy as me ,he is 10 years younger then me about his route and did it for a solid year and was rotated off it for six months .

I'm 50 I forget exact minute locations and might be off on that but not the general route

I could post sequence orders of how the route works for tommorow and show you this ability.witg tech we ignore we are able to do that .

It's good to do menial things .I learned this from the service and also being VA rated ..

I get the machinery versus manual labor changes thing but I like my ability to work .

At my age it's not easy to relearn and make the money the same as needed

 

[MayGodHeal]

jasonc I remember when we didn't have internet or I wasn't aware of it. Now we have internet on our phones.

It wasn't ever pushed though and I still use my desktop PC for certain stuff. Your car though, gets you to places where you need to. Some would say it's a necessity.

EVs are fine as an option but it shouldn't be forced let alone legislate the end of ICE. Except that's the exact problem here is the forced exile of ICE.

 

[jasonc]

jasonc I remember when we didn't have internet or I wasn't aware of it. Now we have internet on our phones.

It wasn't ever pushed though and I still use my desktop PC for certain stuff. Your car though, gets you to places where you need to. Some would say it's a necessity.

EVs are fine as an option but it shouldn't be forced let alone legislate the end of ICE. Except that's the exact problem here is the forced exile of ICE.

You can't have many jobs without use of the internet.

Ie taxes and benefits sure you can use a library .I just think we are too addicted to it .the idea of social credit is bothersome and we are nearly there .

 

[stovebolts]

I don't know where you got the idea where I said you were doing evil, if you don't have ill intentions which I hope not there isnt anything to worry about. My fight is with these people who don't want to it the right way.

I got that impression from your last post, so thanks for clearing that up. Much appreciated.

Me, like other consumers would like the option to keep utilizing ICE technology. However these people I have mentioned is not going to allow for that.

I enjoy ICE vehicles. But I would like an EV too.
This is my toy.
Just under 500 hp at the flywheel. I can do a quarter mile in the high 12’s with street tires and I should get close to 28mpg on the hwy.

Yeah, I like my ICE vehicles too. But at 28 MPG hwy it’s not because of old school technology.

Last week driving int work and I got behind a Hummer EV. We got stuck behind a slow poke and when he got out of the way all I can say is wow…. That Hummer EV was gone! It has over 1,000 hp at its disposal and can get over 400 miles on a single charge.

Yeah, I like my ICE vehicle, but I would take the power train from the Hummer EV and slap it on my 68 Camaro in a heartbeat if given a chance. I could run high 8’s or 9’s.

 

[jasonc]

I got that impression from your last post, so thanks for clearing that up. Much appreciated.

I enjoy ICE vehicles. But I would like an EV too.
View attachment 15016This is my toy.
Just under 500 hp at the flywheel. I can do a quarter mile in the high 12’s with street tires and I should get close to 28mpg on the hwy.

Yeah, I like my ICE vehicles too. But at 28 MPG hwy it’s not because of old school technology.

Last week driving int work and I got behind a Hummer EV. We got stuck behind a slow poke and when he got out of the way all I can say is wow…. That Hummer EV was gone! It has over 1,000 hp at its disposal and can get over 400 miles on a single charge.

Yeah, I like my ICE vehicle, but I would take the power train from the Hummer EV and slap it on my 68 Camaro in a heartbeat if given a chance. I could run high 8’s or 9’s.

His point is that he doesn't want to be forced into it.

Imagine owning a model t and it's banned but it worked .I personally knew a man who had a one and lived in a tiny junk yard and used that and drive it every where.thst was in the late 90s.

Those also could function as generators and tractor accessories and we'll pumps for them existed .

Imagine having a truck like that and now we have infotainment trucks versus bare bones trucks that haul and pull as a primary function.

Lastly as I live this you will own nothing and like it.

Try having weeks to get a roof ,you aren't behind on payments but have a bankruptcy.refi and take that risk of never truly able to retire or pay more in the insurance end .

I can imagine this with a retiree with car prices now .

 

[miamited]

stovebolts

What a beauty! Yeah, I gotta say, for my age group, good old county fair car shows with all that gleaming old metal is a joy to see. I, like you, don't have a problem with going EV. However, as with any new technology on this scale to replace the majority of vehicles on the American roads...in fact the world's roads, it's going to take time and certainly some upgrades and improvements to make it palatable for everyone.

I also foresee it being at least 10 years before there is any real push to remove the last of the ICE cars and that may happen in the same way that they got rid of the last of the unleaded cars. It's more expensive to buy unleaded gas. So, i predict that 'when' the EV has perfected some of the glitches of the present technology, and of course the electric grid is built up to sustain the massive!!! draw on electric production to replace gas, most people will be well ready to make the switch. However, yes, this could even be 15 or 20 years from now. I mean, I know they're shooting in California for the ICE ban to start in 2035 on sales of new cars. But even if that date does ultimately stand, it will still be at least another 10 years before those with ICE vehicles, assuming they can still buy fuel at competitive prices, will have sold, wrecked, or otherwise disposed of that vehicle and then force to buy EV if they want something new.

So, it will happen. Assuming that God continues this earth to spin for another 20 years...it will happen.

God bless,
Ted

 

[MayGodHeal]

I got that impression from your last post, so thanks for clearing that up. Much appreciated.

I enjoy ICE vehicles. But I would like an EV too.
View attachment 15016This is my toy.
Just under 500 hp at the flywheel. I can do a quarter mile in the high 12’s with street tires and I should get close to 28mpg on the hwy.

Yeah, I like my ICE vehicles too. But at 28 MPG hwy it’s not because of old school technology.

Last week driving int work and I got behind a Hummer EV. We got stuck behind a slow poke and when he got out of the way all I can say is wow…. That Hummer EV was gone! It has over 1,000 hp at its disposal and can get over 400 miles on a single charge.

Yeah, I like my ICE vehicle, but I would take the power train from the Hummer EV and slap it on my 68 Camaro in a heartbeat if given a chance. I could run high 8’s or 9’s.

Its really a matter of preference and people seek to end ICE when many people invested so much time, money and effort into it only for people to take it away with bans and mandates.

Like I said nothing wrong with EVs, just the way its being pushed.

 

[MayGodHeal]

Good news for Europeans. They're allowing ICE to continue provided they can use the synthetic fuels. However we can do better than that in America.

Germany, EU reach agreement in combustion engine row

BERLIN (AP) — Germany and the European Union announced Saturday that they have reached an agreement in their dispute over the future of cars with combustion engines, allowing the registration of new vehicles with such engines even after 2035 provided they use climate-neutral fuel only.

apnews.com

Europe's electric car mandate is getting torn up, and Ferrari is into it

The European Commission has agreed to allow internal combustion engines that run on e-fuel after gasoline and diesel models are banned in 2035.

www.foxnews.com

But America continue to fight with one another, synthetic fuel is an alternative, not meant to be a replacement for gasoline and we don't have politicans in office that will stop the agendas..

White House threatens veto for Republican energy package

The White House on Monday threatened a veto of a House Republicans’ energy package, known as H.R. 1, if it makes it to President Biden’s desk. “H.R. 1 would take us backward. Ther…

thehill.com

We still need fossil fuels, we still need oil and gasoline, regardless of what climate doomsayers say, we're not destroying ourselves for them to get what they want. Yeah eventually gasoline will be replaced by something else. Eventually we will adapt to no longer use fossil fuels. But you'll never accomplish that in 10-15 years.

Problem here is a lot of wishy washy mindsets here and not dealing with the reality EVs have a ton of issues you will never iron out in the timeframe alloted. Europe is still forcing the end of gasoline. We can do better than that. A lot better.

All I hear is excuses in this and for those want EVs, no problem. Then Americans need to allow those who want ICE to let them have them. Focus on making synthetic fuel and even hydrogen cheap, affordable and plentiful. If Toyota is pushing for hydrogen ICE obviously they think it can work. No excuses, let the experts figure it out. No lies or deception here. In the meantime we need to provide affordable fuel and educate young people on new technologies. That's the best thing we can do here.

And in that process you will be using fewer fossil fuels in 10 years but it's not going to be the numbers some people want. Enough of the fighting..

 

[miamited]

Imagine owning a model t and it's banned but it worked .

Yes, but that's not what's happening. No one is telling you, you have to get rid of your ICE vehicle. What they're doing is saying that manufacturers can't sell new ones any longer. You can keep your 2006 Infiniti for as long as you care to, just like the guy with the model T, that, psssst manufacturers aren't making anymore either.

However, once the EV infrastructure really takes hold, and I believe that it will, if Jesus doesn't return first, then it might be more expensive to buy the fuel for your 2006 Infiniti. Just as today, for those who don't want to use ethanol mixed gas, they pay a premium for 'pure' gas.

Look technology changes, but this fear mongering that the government is going to make you give up the vehicle that you like to use, is just that. They are preparing for an entire changeover to a different fuel source. And that's ok with me, so long as they also come up with a way to make the new fuel source as convenient for us as the old.

But I would challenge anyone to point to some statement in law that has been passed that says that everyone will have to give up their ICE vehicle. You can even buy and ICE vehicle if you want to buy a used vehicle, but you won't be able to buy a new one because manufacturers won't be making them new any longer. Just like you can buy a VHS tape to watch a movie still today, but you won't find any new movies on VHS format, unless you are willing to pay a premium to have someone put a movie on VHS. But if you're happy with watching VHS format movies and have a VHS player, then you can still watch all the movies that you want....so long as you're happy with old movies. Technology changes and that's honestly been America's claim to fame in the business world since our inception as a nation.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

However we can do better than that in America.

And some wonder why the United States isn't liked by people.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

But you'll never accomplish that in 10-15 years.

No, probably not 'it is finished' accomplished, but we'll be well enough on our way that we'll be ready to let go of those noisy, smoky gas guzzlers. But another task for EV technology, is how the electric is produced. We still have coal and gas production systems that will need to be replaced to get the full effect of an 'electrified' society. We'll need to improve and greatly increase our electric current production if every household is going to be charging 2-3 cars at night and 'fuel' stations will be charging 15-20 cars at a time. Welcome to Bu-cee's!

Hey, on the bright side, when everyone has a charging station at home, if you run out of fuel you can always just knock on someone's door for 20 minute 'pick me up' to get you to a station.

And target dates have been changed before. California is dealing with that right now. They're all afraid of nuclear power. I mean really, the scientists tell us that the whole state is going to fall off the country, but they're worried that some nuclear accident will make their entire state uninhabitable. We've had nuclear power for a long time now and the worst that's happened is Chernobyl and it's my understanding that place was built with an erector set and tape. But anyway, they set a target date to close down all their nuclear facilities and now that date is here and they aren't ready. So, they've extended the date and the only remaining nuclear facility is, I believe, still running.

So we'll see. When 2035 comes rolling around, who has all the chips. Take a deep breath. Don't obsess. Everything's going to be alright. I don't expect to be here when 2035 rolls around.

God bless,
Ted

 

[MayGodHeal]

And some wonder why the United States isn't liked by people.

God bless,
Ted

So having affordable/available energy isn't liked?

No, probably not 'it is finished' accomplished, but we'll be well enough on our way that we'll be ready to let go of those noisy, smoky gas guzzlers.

And target dates have been changed before.

So we'll see. When 2035 comes rolling around, who has all the chips. Take a deep breath. Don't obsess. Everything's going to be alright. I don't expect to be here when 2035 rolls around.

God bless,
Ted

As you see Europe decided to allow ICE to continue on with utilizing synthetic fuels.

Millions depend on ICE technology every day that you seem to be seeking to destroy so you are confusing an obsession over necessity. And I have a big problem with that. I am one of those who depend on ICE/fossil fuels. I don't see EVs as suitable replacements to the ICE vehicles we depend on. You got a lot of issues with EVs to iron out. They're not ready and they won't be ready in 12 years.

Really the new ICE bans in 2035 is an over reach of authority and control for something that is considered essential. Oil is essential as much as electricity. In order to replace ICE EVs need to be in every step of the way equal or better than ICE. In order to charge at home you need access to an outlet. It costs money to do that. Including if you want to charge quickly in which case ICE refuels in less than 10 minutes.

But I'm not talking about the problems of EVs. I'm talking about the problems of the forced end of ICE. You allow these politicians to ban the sale of new ICE what's to stop them to go through entirely banning ICE or the fuel? They already have mileage restrictions with classic cars in some areas.

Only those who seek to end ICE has a problem with them. Yet people depend on them and they're considered a necessity.


Yeah someday ICE will be replaced by something else, but in today's world people depend on ICE vehicles. Forcing different technology that isnt ready isn't the way. In effect these bans just show people are unwilling to take the time to do things right they'd rather just ban to make it go away.

 

[WIP]

Yes, but that's not what's happening. No one is telling you, you have to get rid of your ICE vehicle. What they're doing is saying that manufacturers can't sell new ones any longer. You can keep your 2006 Infiniti for as long as you care to, just like the guy with the model T, that, psssst manufacturers aren't making anymore either.

However, once the EV infrastructure really takes hold, and I believe that it will, if Jesus doesn't return first, then it might be more expensive to buy the fuel for your 2006 Infiniti. Just as today, for those who don't want to use ethanol mixed gas, they pay a premium for 'pure' gas.

Look technology changes, but this fear mongering that the government is going to make you give up the vehicle that you like to use, is just that. They are preparing for an entire changeover to a different fuel source. And that's ok with me, so long as they also come up with a way to make the new fuel source as convenient for us as the old.

But I would challenge anyone to point to some statement in law that has been passed that says that everyone will have to give up their ICE vehicle. You can even buy and ICE vehicle if you want to buy a used vehicle, but you won't be able to buy a new one because manufacturers won't be making them new any longer. Just like you can buy a VHS tape to watch a movie still today, but you won't find any new movies on VHS format, unless you are willing to pay a premium to have someone put a movie on VHS. But if you're happy with watching VHS format movies and have a VHS player, then you can still watch all the movies that you want....so long as you're happy with old movies. Technology changes and that's honestly been America's claim to fame in the business world since our inception as a nation.

God bless,
Ted

I would accept this explanation except for the fact that it isn't the market driving the change. It is government mandate. It surprises me to learn of those who want so much governmental power that they would not only accept but also encourage government to decide everything for us. This is the very definition of socialism and it is scary to me.

 

[WIP]

Millions depend on ICE technology every day that you seem to be seeking to destroy so you are confusing an obsession over necessity. And I have a big problem with that. I am one of those who depend on ICE/fossil fuels. I don't see EVs as suitable replacements to the ICE vehicles we depend on. You got a lot of issues with EVs to iron out. They're not ready and they won't be ready in 12 years.

Was talking to a salesman at our local Ford dealership about the EVs on their showroom floor. I still don't understand why the industry is focusing so heavily on all electric and not on hybrid solutions. Here in MN where for half the year we have cold weather, it is a known problem that lithium-ion batteries do not perform well in cold temperatures. Actually, I know of no battery that does perform as well in cold weather as it does in more moderate conditions. If you want proof of this problem, just place your cell phone in your freezer for about 1/2 hour and then plug it in to your charger. Chances are you'll get a message, like I do when I leave my phone on the seat in my truck in February, that says it is too cold to charge.

The same problem exists for automotive ion batteries. To counter this problem they have a heating system for the automobile's battery to keep it warm. Of course that also is powered by the same battery and so it cuts into the battery's capacity along with running heaters for you own comfort, rear window defrost, mirror defrost, and so forth.

The salesman gave an example of the issue. From Fargo, ND to Minneapolis is about 230 miles. They wanted to move a couple EVs from Fargo to Minneapolis in January, 2022. I believe he said the temperature that day was in double digit below zero Fahrenheit. Our local dealership is located in Sauk Centre, MN, which is almost half way. They got as far as Sauk Centre and had to stop to recharge in order to complete the trip.

I was talking with him about the new Ford Lightning. Every year a group of us take a trip to Hudson, Ontario, Canada for a fishing trip in June. From International Falls, MN we drive about 15 miles NE and then turn onto Ontario 502 and head north to Dryden, Ontario. Distance is about 120 miles and except for the first 10 miles or so, there is nothing. No homes, no businesses, nothing but forest. He told me that pulling a boat and loaded down with gear, would be risky with an EV because there's a good chance that it would not make the distance. I can make the trip with my ICE because I can carry enough fuel in the tank and even if I couldn't, we could always carry an extra can of gas or siphon some out of the boat in a pinch. Can't do that with an EV. So for us, if we were required to switch to an EV, we would have to discontinue our fishing trip.

Another example he shared was with a woman who's daily work commute was just the wrong distance. She didn't have a fast charger at home, as those cost thousands of $ so every day when she got home she'd plug in her car to recharge. It was winter and so the weather was cold. Unfortunately, her car's battery didn't get fully recharged by the next morning and each day the amount of recharge got less. By Friday she was left stranded because her battery didn't get charged enough to make it to work. As a result she had to be towed to a charging station.

 

[miamited]

Hi WIP

I would accept this explanation except for the fact that it isn't the market driving the change.

I'd be willing to go half-way with you on that. Generally the laws made in a free democratic republic are laws that are in line with a majority of the people, but that always means that there may be at least half of the people that aren't in agreement with any laws. But I believe, that overall, most of the people living and breathing and working and eating every day across this country are at least ok with this new initiative.

So, if the new laws coming up are in agreement with the majority of the nation, then those laws are just as much market driven as any other market driven purpose.

It surprises me to learn of those who want so much governmental power that they would not only accept but also encourage government to decide everything for us. This is the very definition of socialism and it is scary to me.

First of all, doing things for the perceived betterment of the people should be the goal of any good government and as far as I know, that's what ours, and most others, are working to do. Secondly, that's just a big ole pile of hyperbole about 'deciding everything for us'. Nobody in the government told me I had to get up this morning, eat breakfast and eat any particular food for breakfast, or what to say to my family as I moved about the house. I generally go through pretty much all of my day free of government control of 'every decision in my life'. I'm guessing you live a pretty weird, and probably quite slow life, if you're waiting on the government to make 'every decision for you.

But yes, governments are tasked with overseeing and taking care of, as best they can, the people over whom they have authority...if it is a good government. And I can't really put much stock in your statement that 'it surprises you...' The government of the U.S. has carried such initiatives for decades, at least. Go out and buy a can of R-22 refrigerant.

When I worked in an auto shop 40 years ago, the mechanic just opened the A/C refrigerant valves and let the refrigerant just blow out like the air in a tire. Today you can go to jail for that. At the very least get slapped with a hefty fine. Those are just a few of the examples of the government regulating through laws, societal changes that they believe are better for the environment in which we live, and thus, better for the people over which they have authority.

So I can't understand why you'd be surprised, but 'I can't understand' would be a valid complaint. It's a big country out there. And we're now the older generation and the newer, younger replacements are here and there will be a new sheriff in town in just a bit for us. Do you allow smoking in your house?

God bless,
Ted

 

[MayGodHeal]

Was talking to a salesman at our local Ford dealership about the EVs on their showroom floor. I still don't understand why the industry is focusing so heavily on all electric and not on hybrid solutions. Here in MN where for half the year we have cold weather, it is a known problem that lithium-ion batteries do not perform well in cold temperatures. Actually, I know of no battery that does perform as well in cold weather as it does in more moderate conditions. If you want proof of this problem, just place your cell phone in your freezer for about 1/2 hour and then plug it in to your charger. Chances are you'll get a message, like I do when I leave my phone on the seat in my truck in February, that says it is too cold to charge.

Really I could see less needs for a personal vehicle but it would require restructuring cities. Some are already trying this and really it's so wierd to see in some places it still looks like the time before cars became standard. You could walk around town without any or much if any traffic.

Yeah even with hybrids you still have a battery to content with and really in itself batteries are not totally environmentally friendly either. What gets me is this push is just basically anti ICE, anti fossil fuels. Realistically it starts within the communities to decide because often times people are more likely to try it in a smaller area. Or you get a group of people that want to do this in their town. Anyone that doesnt want to do it then can move, same thing on the opposite side. If majority of people don't want it or can use it then those that want to can also move then. It's just some thoughts here but you can't undo a century of oil use in a decade. Even my grandfather still used horses on his farm in the late 60s despite having tractors, just didn't have enough of them or was properly testing ICE tech.

To think ICE vehicles are as an enemy is just basically like shooting yourself in the foot or cutting off your arm because its always sore. It's not enough to have EVs as an option with some people, they just want to get rid of ICE and fossil all together. The goal is set too high, you'll never get to it. Gotta slow it down and make smaller goals. What I see is people don't understand the necessity of ICE and why it needs to be continued so long as needed.

EVs haven't approached ICE level as of yet so bans are foolish.

 

[MayGodHeal]

Here's another perspective on the manner of EVs... and consider the problems associated with removing ICE.

 

[miamited]

Hey all,

This just in!!!!

A new nuclear reactor in the US started up last week — the country's first in nearly 7 years. Here are 3 simple ways to invest in the space

We have a new nuclear power reactor in Georgia. Hopefully we'll see more in the not to distant future.

God bless,
Ted

 

[WIP]

Here's a question that has been on my mind lately. If so many people (I don't know what percentage of the population that would be) believe that converting to EVs is a major step to helping slow the progression of climate change or global warming, whichever is the preferred terminology, why haven't the sales of EVs skyrocketed and the availability of pre-owned ICE vehicles going through the roof?

 

[MayGodHeal]

WIP I think many people are not believing in the climate change hysteria. I already know the real reason the weather is so wacky is due to us fighting and God is trying to get our attention.

Also it's so insane how some of these people are spending so much money in trying to drive EV sales. I see so many EVs on the used market under 10,000 miles. Seen quite a few under 1,000 miles. It's like they buy the EV and sell it soon after. It's hard to say if they were disappointed with it or they bought it just to put it out there hoping someone will come along to buy it.

Of course this also happens with ICE vehicles but it's kind of strange to me that "EVs are sold out" when you got thousands of lightly used ones out there that are not getting sold.

Here's the other aspect too, and while comparing the horse to auto from ICE to EV, the auto was a technological breakthrough. It still took over half a century before the car was widely used and even in the 80s my grandfather had still used horses on the ranch even though he had tractors. He did buy quite a few Chevy trucks for driving around on either for traveling from different sheds around the property or sometimes they'd leave farm equipment on the fields and someone would either drop you off there or you would take a truck to drive out there.

But still it wasn't done within 10 or 20 years. ICE to EV on the other hand are pretty much do the same functions. Getting from point A to B but EVs struggle to be that way when you need more time to refuel and well, cant change the oil in a battery to extend the life of it. In my experience batteries degrade over time.

But that's besides the point ICE isnt broken it gets you from point A to B and I'm already at that age where I already know ICE enough to know that I want to stick with that. I still buy CDs, DVDs/Blu Ray, prefer to shop at a store versus online, replace the rubber on the windshield wipers (instead of just buying the whole thing, I have to buy that on Amazon), mostly drink water versus flavored drinks, do basic maintenance on my vehicle and I can't think of much of anything else but other than trying to use what I have versus going out to buy a replacement. I prefer analog gauges on my car dash instead the digital gauges.

If I had a typewriter I'd still be using it if it still worked, even though I would still have a computer. It's just that printers are not really built to last unless you actually look for a good one.

Anyway life isn't perfect and people are still going to use ICE at least for the immediate future. Its political leaders who are trying to end ICE when they're still widely used for the reason people are not widely buying an EV.

Realistically its going to take a long time and potentially a couple of generations before you get rid of ICE. But that shouldn't be happening now when ICE is the preferred method of personal vehicles.