Evidence For God (I'd love to hear feedback)

[childeye]

But I showed you in an earlier post that the Bible is full of deities. Remember? If you don't like the term deities just think god(s) and goddesses instead.

But you do believe in a deity. God is a deity, just one of many mentioned in the Bible.

I don't understand what you mean here. You appear to think that there is only one creator god when there are many creator deities?

No, that's the usual misunderstanding. An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of any deities, including God. Big difference.

"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."
Wikipedia

Atheism isn't belief or disbelief, it is most inclusively the absence of belief. Do you see the difference? A child who has never been taught to believe or disbelieve in deities doesn't believe or disbelieve in deities the idea of belief is absent because the child doesn't even know what deities are. When the child is taught what deities are it can actively believe or disbelieve in them of course or simply remain a passive atheist. Like a person doesn't actively believe or disbelieve that the moon is made of green cheese or that deities exist. It just isn't an issue.

And some children touch it anyway because they don't automatically believe what they are told. Those who are not easily led. Those who will become scientists and explorers etc.

And then go out into the world and become scientists and explorers questioning everything because they're not happy just being told things and want to find out for themselves. Where would we be without those people.

That's a very personal statement. It appears you've had some bad experiences you couldn't cope with and have simply turned to religion for comfort. You're not alone.

After reading all you've posted here, we are only arguing the definition of the term God. In your use as in religion, I do not believe in religion. You may have not realized this but the bible does not speak of gods as dieties. It speaks of gods as mens countless religions and false images of the One True God. False absolutes. Christianity is not nor has ever been a religion or shall I say a man made image of god. For if one would honestly ponder if God exists they certainly would not consider God to be invented by men. Hence one must be honest to receive the Truth. It is not taught by one man to another man but such knowledge of God comes from God Himself through revelation. Hence True Christians all are speaking the same Truth that is One Spirit identified as Love revealed in the Christ. They did not get together to agree to what they would say and preach so as to create a religion.

You say atheism is the all inclusive absence of belief. In reality absence of belief is unbelief otherwise it is indifference which means you are agnostic. This is then the epitome of hypocrisy and cannot be anything other than a lie. For you are saying without knowing it that you believe there are no beliefs. The faith that there is no faith. The holiness of the unholy. You are deceived even as those who would say they Love to hate think they love. One cannot add one plus one and get whatever, then call it knowledge.

 

[Artie]

After reading all you've posted here, we are only arguing the definition of the term God. In your use as in religion, I do not believe in religion. You may have not realized this but the bible does not speak of gods as dieties. It speaks of gods as mens countless religions and false images of the One True God. False absolutes. Christianity is not nor has ever been a religion or shall I say a man made image of god.

"Christianity (from the Ancient Greek word Χριστός, Khristos, "Christ", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic religion[1] based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in canonical gospels and other New Testament writings."
Wikipedia

They did not get together to agree to what they would say and preach so as to create a religion.

Have you read any books on the origins of God or the Bible? There are many good books. First I'll recommend "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong as a basis and then you can explore further. Or you can just watch http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/a-history-of-god/

You say atheism is the all inclusive absence of belief. In reality absence of belief is unbelief otherwise it is indifference which means you are agnostic. This is then the epitome of hypocrisy and cannot be anything other than a lie. For you are saying without knowing it that you believe there are no beliefs. The faith that there is no faith. The holiness of the unholy. You are deceived even as those who would say they Love to hate think they love. One cannot add one plus one and get whatever, then call it knowledge.

This paragraph I didn't understand at all so I won't comment.

 

[Free]

In your use as in religion, I do not believe in religion.... Christianity is not nor has ever been a religion.

Although this is a popular belief among Christians, at least among Evangelicals, it is entirely incorrect. Christianity, is, by definition, a religion.

 

[childeye]

Although this is a popular belief among Christians, at least among Evangelicals, it is entirely incorrect. Christianity, is, by definition, a religion.

As far as linguistics go there are semantics. Hence there are inherent problems with defintions of terms. As the devil spins the truth he uses such inconsistencies to deceive. God is not a religion, so religion is not God, but an image of god. So it might be properly said that there is only one True religion of God since there is only one God, but it also could be properly said that the Christ came to destroy all religions. I would quote Jeremiah 31:33-34.
King James version;

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Free]

As far as linguistics go there are semantics. Hence there are inherent problems with defintions of terms. As the devil spins the truth he uses such inconsistencies to deceive. God is not a religion, so religion is not God, but an image of god. So it might be properly said that there is only one True religion of God since there is only one God, but it also could be properly said that the Christ came to destroy all religions.

It doesn't matter how you spin it, Christianity is a religion, by definition. No one is saying God is a religion because he is clearly a being.

You said "Christianity is not nor has ever been a religion" and all I am saying is that that is incorrect.

 

[childeye]

It doesn't matter how you spin it, Christianity is a religion, by definition. No one is saying God is a religion because he is clearly a being.

You said "Christianity is not nor has ever been a religion" and all I am saying is that that is incorrect.

Christianity is knowing God by His revelation of Himself unto us, and so you cannot at once say God is not religion for He is a person and then say Christianity is a religion. Since God's revelation is on an individual and personal basis it does not exactly conform to the definition of religion. Each man would then have his own unique religion who knows God form his unique perspective.

Personally, I define religion as belief in a God or gods. whatever the term god is being appled to, which differs and why there are many religions. Whereas Christianity is beyond that and knowing God in person. The New Testament is not religion. For religion by definition must come forth from the man toward God while the New testament comes from God to man. To know God is to know one's self as we are made in the image of God and so I do not see how religion is tantamount to knowing one's self or knowing God.

If you recall Jesus was crucified by religious authority for they did not recognize Him whom they worship when He came.

Also there are many different definitions of religion all claiming they are the correct definitions and all claiming authority to proclaim what religion is. We are arguing semantics.

 

[Free]

Christianity is knowing God by His revelation of Himself unto us, and so you cannot at once say God is not religion and then say Christianity is a religion. Since God's revelation is on an individual and personal basis it does not exactly conform to the definition of religion.

You are making a categorical error. God is a being and Christianity is a religion which holds to particular beliefs about God. So I can most definitely say that God is not a religion and Christianity is. God is not Christianity nor is Christianity God.

Christianity is knowing God by His revelation of Himself ]I define religion as belief in God, whereas Christianity is beyond that and knowing God.

Well there you have it. You are redefining "religion" to be what you want it to be or think it should be, which is why this discussion is having problems. You cannot do that. You must use accepted sociological definitions if a discussion is going to have meaning and get anywhere.

Theism is "belief in God," not religion. Different religions have different sets of beliefs about their particular god or gods, or something else.

 

[childeye]

=Free;576059]You are making a categorical error. God is a being and Christianity is a religion which holds to particular beliefs about God. So I can most definitely say that God is not a religion and Christianity is. God is not Christianity nor is Christianity God.


Well there you have it. You are redefining "religion" to be what you want it to be or think it should be, which is why this discussion is having problems. You cannot do that. You must use accepted sociological definitions if a discussion is going to have meaning and get anywhere.

Theism is "belief in God," not religion. Different religions have different sets of beliefs about their particular god or gods, or something else.

Christ is a being not a religion and so also is his body a being not a religion. By definition religions are held beliefs coming from men about God. Christianity is certain beliefs about men coming from God.

If you would allow me free. I am addressing artie and his contention that his belief is not a religion or image of God and you are currently undermining my position. The term god is changed from an absolute to an uncertainty by your conclusion that Christianity is another religion. At least in the mind of an Atheist. Please read this scripture concerning this term god being an absolute.
2 Thessalonians 2:4

King James Version (KJV)


4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

re·li·gion (r

-l

j

n) [SIZE=-2]KEY[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]NOUN:[/SIZE]

1. 1. <LI type=a>Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
   2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

As you can see from thessalonians the bible itself claims the term god to be an absolute so that even as one declares there is no God he is proclaiming himself God. Therefore the term God is an absolute which makes atheism a religion that worships a man as god. You need to discover that antichrist is a religion.

 

[childeye]

=Artie;575956]"Christianity (from the Ancient Greek word Χριστός, Khristos, "Christ", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic religion[1] based on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in canonical gospels and other New Testament writings."
Wikipedia

Please note the word Christ means anointed one. This means anointed by God making this Christ a revelation of God sent by God. You can call it a religion if you wish but wikipedia has it wrong. And here is why. If Christ is Christ he is the only one sent by the true God making Christianity the revealing of God by God to man. No religion can do this. Moreover, Christianity proclaims God as Love which exists in mankind apart from religion.

Have you read any books on the origins of God or the Bible? There are many good books. First I'll recommend "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong as a basis and then you can explore further. Or you can just watch A History of God | Watch Free Documentary Online

Not interested in reading someones take of where God came from when the term god is an absolute and could not come from anywhere. This book would be more aptly named the history of religion I can assume without even reading it. Religion is man made, the Christ is God made.

 

[Free]

By definition religions are held beliefs coming from men about God. Christianity is certain beliefs about men coming from God.

But this is circular. Your last statement is a belief in and of itself.

If you would allow me free. I am addressing artie and his contention that his belief is not a religion or image of God and you are currently undermining my position.

It certainly isn't my intention to undermine your position but if we as Christians are to have meaningful discussions with others, we must use accepted definitions and not redefine things.

The term god is changed from an absolute to an uncertainty by your conclusion that Christianity is another religion. At least in the mind of an Atheist.

I'm not sure if it does this as I'm not really sure what you mean by "the term god" being an "absolute." But Christianity is a religion, there is no way around that, so you must keep that in mind when making arguments and establishing your position.

Please read this scripture concerning this term god being an absolute.
2 Thessalonians 2:4

King James Version (KJV)


4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Not sure how this supports your idea that the term god is an absolute.

 

[BarSnikel]

wHO IS jESUS TO YOU?! iF E IS NOT YOUR SAVIOUR, THEN YOU NEED TO REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[childeye]

=Free;576075]But this is circular. Your last statement is a belief in and of itself.

I must use the word belief which does not automatically imply religion. There is no way around this as all is built on faith pertaining to person and character. The word religion is defined loosely and I seek to establish clarity. It is not clarity to say that Christ came to establish another religion when I am trying to say Christ came to reveal the Truth about God which questions all other truths.

It certainly isn't my intention to undermine your position but if we as Christians are to have meaningful discussions with others, we must use accepted definitions and not redefine things.

You leave me losing in reasoning from the get go if I must accept the definition of Christianity as a religion that is shown to be defined as a man's perspective when Christianity is not that. And Christ cannot be defended as Truth from that position. Christianity is a Kingdom of God not a temple built by hands. How do you think Satan deceives? Religion killed Jesus.

As I said we are arguing semantics. I am not redefining anything but saying what it always was, which is saying religion is men's belief in something pertaining to an absolute of some sort. I have already admitted to you that it could be properly said Christianity is the One true religion. I have looked and looked and there is no definition describing Christianity as such. Why? Because the term religion is relative in cognizant reasoning to images of god that are man made. Why should I accept this definition when it is more accurately describing human opinions of god, and not God coming down. look below. Completely carnal perspective descriptions.
NOUN:

1. 1. <LI type=a>Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
   2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

If you look at the above accepted definitions as a whole, they cover every belief concept except the belief that is put forth by God. There is not comprehended here in this definition the revelation of God from God which Christianity is. These are carnal perspectives and definitions. It does however qualify atheism in number four. Hence an atheist can claim number one, two or three as a fallacy through a belief in a man made absolute or theory. This definition is a hodge podge of anything and everything. But it's just a word, religion. My only desire is to cut through the semantics. Therefore to be fair, I'll be happy to concede to artie that Christianity is a religion but cannot concede it is man made, if he will concede that so is atheism a religion as defined in number 4. For there is no point in discussing if we can't agree on definitions of terms that are equitable so that the basis of conviction may be established. Otherwise their would ensue hypocritical reasoning that will only allow lies to prevail.

I'm not sure if it does this as I'm not really sure what you mean by "the term god" being an "absolute." But Christianity is a religion, there is no way around that, so you must keep that in mind when making arguments and establishing your position.

Have it your way if you must, it is a religion and may every man receive according to his faith. So long as atheism is also considered religion I don't care because I'm simply going to claim christianity is not a man's religion.

Let's examine an absolute. If one were seeking Truth as a scientist, he asks the question why, and trys to prove why. But that why, after being answered, brings forth another why, which will bring forth another why, until you are dead and never finished answering why. God is where why ends, so the term god is an absolute. Therefore I know I must establish that there exists an absolute the scientist is seeking and the term god is used to describe that which we are regarding as worthy of belief in, even as the definition of religion, incuding science.

All I'm saying is we all must believe in something as true and this governs our decisions as we reason upon it's presumed validity. Hence the bible says there are many gods but only one God. A false god is one that is not God and atheism is a false god for it is not God. Now I hope you see why atheism must also be a religion. There are spiritual consequences for everything we believe to be true.

Christianity is a religion to some according to the definitions above, granted.
But religion does not precisely define Christianity from all other religions. For it is the revelation from the True God that undoes all other gods or religions. All other gods or religions are men's views of God. Christianity is God's view of men.

 

[Artie]

Not interested in reading someones take of where God came from when the term god is an absolute and could not come from anywhere. This book would be more aptly named the history of religion I can assume without even reading it. Religion is man made, the Christ is God made.

If you don't want to read the book please just see A History of God because without such basic knowledge about how the idea of God was developed through the centuries it is very hard to have a meaningful debate. You can't just use your own definitions while the rest of us know how the idea of God was developed.

 

[childeye]

If you don't want to read the book please just see A History of God because without such basic knowledge about how the idea of God was developed through the centuries it is very hard to have a meaningful debate. You can't just use your own definitions while the rest of us know how the idea of God was developed.

Well now that's just it. You want to debate an idea of God which is in all truth and honesty, religions of men. I want to talk about Christianity which is not a religion of man. This history of God is pertaining to men's concepts of an absolute. I am not using my own definitions by the way.

 

[Artie]

Well now that's just it. You want to debate an idea of God which is in all truth and honesty, religions of men. I want to talk about Christianity which is not a religion of man. This history of God is pertaining to men's concepts of an absolute. I am not using my own definitions by the way.

Have you seen the documentary?

 

[BrenchStevens]

Evidence for God

What could possibly prove the existence of a non-physical being in terms of physical, natural terms? That being's interaction with the physical.

Miracles, my friend, are all the proof I need. If you listen to some Apostolic Pentecostal preaching, you will learn of some instances of miracles that have happened in the present, not just in the improvable past. Furthermore, because these miracles occur the same way they did in the Bible, and that is the only way they occur, it proves that the Word is indeed of God, and that God is indeed real.

 

[Artie]

Evidence for God

What could possibly prove the existence of a non-physical being in terms of physical, natural terms? That being's interaction with the physical.

Miracles, my friend, are all the proof I need. If you listen to some Apostolic Pentecostal preaching, you will learn of some instances of miracles that have happened in the present, not just in the improvable past. Furthermore, because these miracles occur the same way they did in the Bible, and that is the only way they occur, it proves that the Word is indeed of God, and that God is indeed real.

Have you got an example?

 

[childeye]

Have you got an example?

Sorry selected the the wrong post.

 

[childeye]

Have you seen the documentary?

Yes I watched it. Nothing new. If you watched it then you must know I am using the same term for God, an absolute. Do you believe in an absolute? As in an answer to Who am I, why am I here, how did I get here?

 

[Artie]

Yes I watched it. Nothing new. If you watched it then you must know I am using the same term for God, an absolute. Do you believe in an absolute? As in an answer to Who am I, why am I here, how did I get here?

How can you use the term absolute when the documentary and the book clearly shows that the idea of God has developed over time? Why do people need absolutes? If people had accepted Thor as the creator of thunder as an absolute we wouldn't even have meteorology. You are childeye and why you are here and how you got here your parents can answer.