[_ Old Earth _] Evolution / Creation / Intelligent design

[jasoncran]

Truth cannot contradict truth. Fact is, YE creationism is a stumbling block to new Christians and a make of atheists among young Christians.

And it's not even Biblical. Nothing good can come from that which is not true.

and when someone in the future comes along with the new data and then scientist through out new the theory all together. unless you know that this toe is infallible.

that we know it all and have been there to see every sec of the frequency changes and the sources and the lenght and so on.

do you believe that theory of evolution isnt falsifable
being become athiest caused by more then just because of the toe.
one can believe that stuff and live like the child of hell. that will crush some

 

[jasoncran]

Truth cannot contradict truth. Fact is, YE creationism is a stumbling block to new Christians and a make of atheists among young Christians.

And it's not even Biblical. Nothing good can come from that which is not true.

this comes from someone who believes that the bible isnt complete! that the jew is saved and muslim if they never here the gospel. which oddly if true then why is the gospel put out, telling them to repent if they dont they are doomed. but if we dont tell them to repent they can have a chance in heaven.

 

[Physicist]

Truth cannot contradict truth. Fact is, YE creationism is a stumbling block to new Christians and a make of atheists among young Christians.

And it's not even Biblical. Nothing good can come from that which is not true.

and when someone in the future comes along with the new data and then scientist through out new the theory all together. unless you know that this toe is infallible.

that we know it all and have been there to see every sec of the frequency changes and the sources and the lenght and so on.

do you believe that theory of evolution isnt falsifable
being become athiest caused by more then just because of the toe.
one can believe that stuff and live like the child of hell. that will crush some

Both atomic theory and the Theory of Natural Selection are theoretical falsifiable. Gravitational theory is falsifiable. Just because all experience indicates that if you jump off a bridge, you will fall down, no scientific philosopher would rule out absolutely that you wouldn't fall up the next time you tried. However, beyond the most minuscule of doubt, these theories have been shown to be correct.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Truth cannot contradict truth. Fact is, YE creationism is a stumbling block to new Christians and a make of atheists among young Christians.

And it's not even Biblical. Nothing good can come from that which is not true.

and when someone in the future comes along with the new data and then scientist through out new the theory all together.

Could happen. But that wouldn't make YE true. It would still not be Biblical.

that we know it all and have been there to see every sec of the frequency changes and the sources and the lenght and so on.

Pretty much like gravity. We might be wrong about the way it works, but it's observably true.

being become athiest caused by more then just because of the toe.
one can believe that stuff and live like the child of hell. that will crush some

Yes, I know from experience that YE creationism has caused people to lose faith in God.

this comes from someone who believes that the bible isnt complete!

It was complete when the canonical Bible was formed. But it was by a group of men who used scholarship and inspiration and tradition to decide. And it's been changed a few times since then, by other groups of men, doing the same thing.

that the jew is saved and muslim if they never here the gospel.

Can be. God saves by hearts, not by theology.

which oddly if true then why is the gospel put out, telling them to repent if they dont they are doomed. but if we dont tell them to repent they can have a chance in heaven.

No. If they, for whatever reason are truly unable to believe, then they are not accountable. One must make a decision to reject God and His word, not merely reject the idea that it is God's word. Those who are invincibly ignorant are judged by natural law, which is understood by all men.

 

[freeway]

just a few quotes form Barbarian:

Yes, I know from experience that YE creationism has caused people to lose faith in God.

You must be kidding or you are so bent on evolution to even see what you are saying. Quite the opposite, YE creationist give all the credit to God, You give credit to chance, random mutation, and mud. I am a YE creationist if you have not noticed, The theory of evolution is dead someday soon it will be buried.
note picture of the lastest missing link, the science commuity was so quick to jump on the band wagon why? because they need to prove to themselves that God cannot and more importantly need not exist. After this tidbit "missing fossil" made news, children books where printed to show how this said missing link lived along a river with its family.. "sicking" they try to shove this garbage down the throat of young minds. note picture! ya I see how they mistook this Lemur for a missing link :bigfrown
and you say YE creationist are a stubbing block, better take a closer look at yourself and you religion of evolution.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian admits:
Yes, I know from experience that YE creationism has caused people to lose faith in God.

You must be kidding or you are so bent on evolution to even see what you are saying.

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/gstory.htm

YE creationist give all the credit to God, You give credit to chance, random mutation, and mud.

No, and I'm surprised that you don't know it, given all the times I told you that God did it this way.

I am a YE creationist if you have not noticed, The theory of evolution is dead someday soon it will be buried.

YE creationism is not consistent with God's word in Genesis. So it will never be accepted by most Christians.

note picture of the lastest missing link, the science commuity was so quick to jump on the band wagon why? because they need to prove to themselves that God cannot and more importantly need not exist.

You've been misled about that. Many of the great scientists in evolutionary science have been Christians.

After this tidbit "missing fossil" made news, children books where printed to show how this said missing link lived along a river with its family.. "sicking" they try to shove this garbage down the throat of young minds. note picture! ya I see how they mistook this Lemur for a missing link :bigfrown

Some did. Note that other scientists challenged that interpretation, and evidence decided the issue. Wouldn't it be great if creationists were like that? Humans make errors. This is why science is self-correcting.

and you say YE creationist are a stubbing block

Yep. See above. YE will have much to answer for when time comes to an end.

better take a closer look at yourself and you religion of evolution.

Science is science. Christianity is my religion. You should know that by now, too.

 

[RaymondKroft]

I don't seem to understand how people can seperate evolution, creation, and intellegent design. They go hand in hand. One feeds off of the other. A whole is set in motion while the others play out their parts in the sceme of life. Both in species and alchemaically. To seperate them is to do nothing more than find a reason to fight.

 

[freeway]

Again I will just say the Darwin's evolution and the theory of evolution has done more harm to mankind than any YE creationist through out history, Look how many have been killed due to evolutionist thinking. Man is nothing more than a primate, that someday will evolve into whatever bangs at the door of life.. how said to think this way, and not give God the Glory for his perfect created beings.

 

[Barbarian]

Again I will just say the Darwin's evolution and the theory of evolution has done more harm to mankind than any YE creationist through out history

You can gloss over all those lost to Christianity because of YE creationism, but I can't. It is a grave error to put that kind of barrier to new Christians, and to cause young Christians to lose their faith.

Look how many have been killed due to evolutionist thinking.

Rather to anti-evolutionist thinking. Hitler, for example, murdered millions, because he did not understand that evolutionary theory shows us to be a single race. Stalin, who outlawed Darwin, killed millions.

Man is nothing more than a primate

You think that's what evolutionary theory is about? No wonder you hate science. You don't know what it is.

But you're dead wrong about that last. No created being is perfect. Only God is perfect.

 

[Physicist]

Again I will just say the Darwin's evolution and the theory of evolution has done more harm to mankind than any YE creationist through out history, Look how many have been killed due to evolutionist thinking. Man is nothing more than a primate, that someday will evolve into whatever bangs at the door of life.. how said to think this way, and not give God the Glory for his perfect created beings.

You know I cannot think of a single individual who was killed due Darwin's Theory. However, whether in Northern Ireland or Iraq, I can note millions of people who have been killed because of differing religious beliefs.

 

[freeway]

Quotes from Barbarian:

You can gloss over all those lost to Christianity because of YE creationism, but I can't. It is a grave error to put that kind of barrier to new Christians, and to cause young Christians to lose their faith.

Question? for you Barb. Please tell me just how many do you think is lost because of YE. That seems to be a bit hopeful on your part, Do you mean they became atheist because of YE witnessing. Or is it because you just love evolution so much you do not see the real problem evolution creates "atheist thinking" so don't blame YE for atheisms. blame Darwin's there's no need for God and your line of thinking..

Rather to anti-evolutionist thinking. Hitler, for example, murdered millions, because he did not understand that evolutionary theory shows us to be a single race. Stalin, who outlawed Darwin, killed millions.

Yea I see now how that was caused by YE.. So because of YE he Hitler, Stalin murdered million in the name of Jesus??.. ummm, thats a new one.. and lets not forget Mao tung he also can blame YE because Satan is to busy pushing YE creationism.

You think that's what evolutionary theory is about? No wonder you hate science. You don't know what it is. But you're dead wrong about that last. No created being is perfect. Only God is perfect.

That man is no more than a primate in the eyes of evolution? well we do all come from a common cell, your theory not mine, Sorry.. Mine is God created us in His image, the "Image you talk" of is a single cell. I somehow always thought of God more than that. Also I love science, studing, reading, talking about it end on end. Thats why I'm here. If I didn't love science I surely could fine other topics on this site to stay in. Am I dead wrong about God's creation being perfect? You say you are a Christian, was not Adam and Eve perfect before the fall? I’ll go with yes along with all of creation. But again that’s just the view of a YE creationist…

 

[jasoncran]

my bad Darwin walked on water, not jesus.

 

[RaymondKroft]

Geometrically all things have a perfect order according to thier electrical connection, an electricity we all share. The evolution of that is found through trial and error, thus evolution. The bible may tell of it but only with the help of science. But at the same time making it metaphorical and not literal, intutn making god a concept of nature instead of a divine being.

 

[freeway]

Geometrically all things have a perfect order according to thier electrical connection, an electricity we all share. The evolution of that is found through trial and error, thus evolution. The bible may tell of it but only with the help of science. But at the same time making it metaphorical and not literal, intutn making god a concept of nature instead of a divine being.

Not sure where your going, "need more input"

 

[Crying Rock]

my bad Darwin walked on water, not jesus.

I don't know about Darwin, but I've heard Wyatt Earp walked on water. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRVhtVCfzo8

 

[jasoncran]

yec ers wow, we are responsible for the holocaust. i can rest now that i know who is really responsible for the death of my brethren. yup i must be guilty of that horrible sin, reading and actually believing the bible as its written.

not the bible according to dawkins. his claim on the holocaust not mine

barb, as a hebrew it is well known to me and the jews that the rcc primarily and the protestants killed the jew and forced us to move around the world. my dad mention family history of this.

 

[Barbarian]

Question? for you Barb. Please tell me just how many do you think is lost because of YE.

I can personally think of dozens I've encountered.

That seems to be a bit hopeful on your part,

I find it very disturbing. And I'm not the only one.

Do you mean they became atheist because of YE witnessing.

Most of them were raised to believe YE creationism was Christianity. When they learned it could not be true, some of them abandoned faith in God or in Christianity.

Or is it because you just love evolution so much

You misunderstand. Scientists don't accept theories because they like them. They accept them on the evidence.

you do not see the real problem evolution creates "atheist thinking"

The point is, the evidence shows YE creationism produces atheists.

so don't blame YE for atheisms. blame Darwin's there's no need for God and your line of thinking..

That would be odd, seeing as Darwin attributed the origin of life to God.

Barbarian observes:
Rather to anti-evolutionist thinking. Hitler, for example, murdered millions, because he did not understand that evolutionary theory shows us to be a single race. Stalin, who outlawed Darwin, killed millions.

Yea I see now how that was caused by YE.. So because of YE he Hitler, Stalin murdered million in the name of Jesus??

Merely pointing out that the two greatest murderers in history were anti-Darwinists.

Barbarian observes:
You think that's what evolutionary theory is about? No wonder you hate science. You don't know what it is. But you're dead wrong about that last. No created being is perfect. Only God is perfect.

That man is no more than a primate in the eyes of evolution?

Evolution has no eyes for teleology. But most of the great evolutionists have. The were quite aware that evolution does not mean that man is "no more than a primate."

well we do all come from a common cell, your theory not mine, Sorry.. Mine is God created us in His image, the "Image you talk" of is a single cell.

No, it's not. God is not a body. The "image" is our immortal soul and the ability to understand good and evil. Jesus points out that God is a spirit and a spirit has no body.

I somehow always thought of God more than that.

So did most of the founders of evolutionary theory.

Also I love science, studing, reading, talking about it end on end. Thats why I'm here. If I didn't love science I surely could fine other topics on this site to stay in. Am I dead wrong about God's creation being perfect?

You're dead wrong about his creatures being perfect. No one is perfect but God. And God didn't say His creation was perfect, so it's a bit presumptuous of us to say so.

You say you are a Christian, was not Adam and Eve perfect before the fall?

Would a perfect person rebel against God? No, of course not. And God doesn't say Adam or Eve were perfect; they obviously were not.

I’ll go with yes along with all of creation. But again that’s just the view of a YE creationist…

To do so, you'll have to add yet another verse to Scripture. Not a good idea, I think.

 

[Barbarian]

my bad Darwin walked on water, not jesus.

If Darwin was perfect, we wouldn't have to amend evolutionary theory from time to time, as new information turns up.

Just saying...

 

[John]

And when you are done amending it you will end up with Creation ;)

 

[Barbarian]

yec ers wow, we are responsible for the holocaust.

I don't see how you get that. Hitler and Stalin were anti-Darwinists. But they weren't YE creationists.

i can rest now that i know who is really responsible for the death of my brethren. yup i must be guilty of that horrible sin, reading and actually believing the bible as its written.

Rest easy. Not every anti-Darwinist is a pathological killer or a racist anti-Semite.

barb, as a hebrew it is well known to me and the jews that the rcc primarily and the protestants killed the jew and forced us to move around the world. my dad mention family history of this.

The greatest sin committed by Christians was the oppression of the Jews in the Middle ages. The greatest charity of the Muslims was that they provided a refuge for Jews from the persecutions of Europe.