[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not based on empirical evidence

[Asimov]

:D Just as two people can create a child that looks totally
different from themselves,so may the animals.

Exactly, and in the wild, a certain variation (coupled with a mutation) may provide a distinct selective advantage over the other offspring, and other individuals in the population.

In the beginning there were just two people,and DNA was brand
new. DNA is by no means new today,and we can come up with a
variety of combinations due to our long ancestory.

Blue, what exactly is "brand new" DNA? What exactly is "old" DNA? Do you really think in 6000 years 2 humans can create the diversity on the earth??

Dogs are still dogs,and people are still people.
This cannot and does not prove evolution at all.

Yes, dogs are still dogs, and people are still people, nobody is disputing that dogs are not dogs, and that people are not people. We are talking about gradual change over millions and millions of years.

 

[Asimov]

This is a total lie!
http://www.origins.org/articles/johnson_unraveling.html
http://www.gennet.org/facts/lutheran.html
http://www.soulcare.org/Creation/Evolution.html

I don't exactly understand what you are saying is a total lie. You need to specify.

I'm not going to debate with a bunch of links, blue. If you wish to discuss certain parts of the link, then please, in your own words, describe what is being said, and use the link as a reference, not as your entire argument. You saying it is a total lie, does not make it so. Evolution is not based on random chance. Mutations are random, natural selection selects the mutations that provide benefit to the population of organisms, this is not chance.


Your problem is you think Evolution has a goal, or something to strive towards (like dinosaurs growing feathers and being able to fly). This is not true, evolution is not goal-oriented. If organisms do not have the necessary ability to adapt and survive (through mutation), then the organism dies, and possibly the species becomes extinct.

 

[Guest]

Blue, what exactly is "brand new" DNA? What exactly is "old" DNA? Do you really think in 6000 years 2 humans can create the diversity on the earth??

Dogs are still dogs,and people are still people.
This cannot and does not prove evolution at all.

Yes, dogs are still dogs, and people are still people, nobody is disputing that dogs are not dogs, and that people are not people. We are talking about gradual change over millions and millions of years.

:B-fly: DNA was once brand new when God first made man.
DNA is not new anymore,and DNA now has many variations.
Mutations have not been proven to help life at all,it hinders it.
If life came about as you say it did,why haven't there been any
one winged birds,ect... in the process of change?
Something would have been seen by now,but as it is,it has not.
Mutations harm life,so the mutation idea is wrong.
In the beginning,DNA could handle alot more than it can today.
Close relatives cannot marry and have children without them
being mentally ill or somehow deformed,but it was not that way
in the very beginning.
Do you realize that special processes are involved when breeding
certain cats or dogs to make them look a certain way?
But when you try to inter-breed certain species together they cannot
reproduce,and some that do reproduce have sterile offspring who cannot
reproduce. No matter how hard man tries to copy God,he will fail.

 

[goliwog man]

Animals with similar DNA are supposably closer related (correct me if Im wrong.) The closer the DNA the more we have in common. E.g apes yet The point i was trying to make earlier was the fact that humans have nothing in common with bananas. I have never seen a man banana from the waiste down. LOL

Does dna really determine how much we are alike?

 

[Guest]

Animals with similar DNA are supposably closer related (correct me if Im wrong.) The closer the DNA the more we have in common. E.g apes yet The point i was trying to make earlier was the fact that humans have nothing in common with bananas. I have never seen a man banana from the waiste down. LOL

Does dna really determine how much we are alike?

:B-fly: You believe that humans and apes,and/or animals have
simular DNA,but I don't. Neither do many people who investigate
crimes in the crime lab. Animals and humans differ greatly in DNA,
and they can easily be seperated from one another in the lab.
When did I mention fruit,or food?

 

[Asimov]

DNA was once brand new when God first made man.
DNA is not new anymore,and DNA now has many variations.

Blue, I'm not following you. What is brand new DNA? What exactly do you mean that it now has variations?? How are you backing this up?

Mutations have not been proven to help life at all,it hinders it.
If life came about as you say it did,why haven't there been any
one winged birds,ect... in the process of change?

I'm sure there have been one winged birds born...but they die. Mutations do and can help life. Most mutations are neutral, some are beneficial, and some are harmful.

Something would have been seen by now,but as it is,it has not.
Mutations harm life,so the mutation idea is wrong.

Things are seen. Humans are gradually getting larger, and more intelligent, than we were. There are mutations that were found in certain olympic runners who could run for longer because of a mutation.

In the beginning,DNA could handle alot more than it can today.
Close relatives cannot marry and have children without them
being mentally ill or somehow deformed,but it was not that way
in the very beginning.
Do you realize that special processes are involved when breeding
certain cats or dogs to make them look a certain way?
But when you try to inter-breed certain species together they cannot
reproduce,and some that do reproduce have sterile offspring who cannot
reproduce. No matter how hard man tries to copy God,he will fail.

Blue, you do not back anything you say up. You offer nothing scientific to this discussion.

 

[Asimov]

double post...

 

[Guest]

This is a total lie!
http://www.origins.org/articles/johnson_unraveling.html
http://www.gennet.org/facts/lutheran.html
http://www.soulcare.org/Creation/Evolution.html

I'm not going to debate with a bunch of links, blue. If you wish to discuss certain parts of the link, then please, in your own words, describe what is being said, and use the link as a reference, not as your entire argument. You saying it is a total lie, does not make it so. Evolution is not based on random chance. Mutations are random, natural selection selects the mutations that provide benefit to the population of organisms, this is not chance.

:B-fly: Website links help show the error in your claims.
I'm not one who likes to just cut and paste. I like people to
help themselves learn. If it is too hard for you to read the
material on these websites,just say that because they are valid
and they have a great deal of useful material.
I did describe to you how you are in error,and the websites go
into greater detail. They are also useful in helping you understand
what is wrong with the claims you are making.
All you have to do is read the material.
Help yourself learn,or admit that you just have no desire to learn
about why your ideas may be wrong.
I hope you'll at least read some of the material.

 

[Guest]

DNA was once brand new when God first made man.
DNA is not new anymore,and DNA now has many variations.

Blue, I'm not following you. What is brand new DNA? What exactly do you mean that it now has variations?? How are you backing this up?

:B-fly: What I am trying to help you understand is that
DNA has more options to choose from now that it is much older.
I don't look like either one of my parents,but I do strongly look
like my Great Grand-Mother. I am saying that DNA is unique in
all of us,but at the same time we are simular to our ancestors.
We are not clones. We are all one of a kind,yet we are all
simular in the fact that we are all human beings. We are all from
many races,yet we all originally came from one race.
Animals may differ from one another in the same species,yet they
are all the same species. Cats always stay cats for instance,even
if they differ to some degree.
The differences that do occur have nothing to do with evolution,though
some people try to claim that it does,and that this is what they mean
by evolution. To me it doesn't mean anything like that at all.

 

[Guest]

I'm sure there have been one winged birds born...but they die. Mutations do and can help life. Most mutations are neutral, some are beneficial, and some are harmful.

Things are seen. Humans are gradually getting larger, and more intelligent, than we were. There are mutations that were found in certain olympic runners who could run for longer because of a mutation.

:B-fly: If there had ever been one winged birds some would
have lived and had them so they could have been seen.
There hasn't even been a one winged bat,or an ape that was in the
process of change to a human.
If I chose to be an atheist,I would leave it at that instead trying to
make myself believe in evolution.
I cannot be an atheist because I now know that God is real,but if
I were,I wouldn't believe in evolution. That would make me look
rebellious and mean spirited towards God given the fact that evolution
has not been proven,and it takes even greater faith to believe in.
I'm not trying to offend you,but TOE is fiction.

 

[Guest]

:o We are getting larger and bigger?
I'm only 5' 2 1/2,and I'm less than 120 pounds.
People are getting smarter because the bible says
that in the last days knowledge would increase.
More information is being revealed to us.
The bible also says that in the last days many people
would turn to fables instead of believing the truth of
sound doctrine.

 

[Guest]

:D In the beginning,the human race was one race of people.
Now there are many. We are all part of the many different races
on some level. Some people call themselves a Heinz 57.
If you study your family tree,you'll find that there were other
races involved in it.
Race seems to depend very heavily upon places,or Geographical
locations more than anything else. If you are from Ireland,you are
considered Irish,and if you are from France you are considered
French. How can the location that you are from have much to do
with your DNA? Yet,it affects our DNA as we have seen through
the many different races we have now. We know that being from
Africa people became darker skinned,and being from Ireland seems
to create lighter skin. If our DNA is affected by our surroundings and
place of birth,and locations of our ancestors,then how could evolution
have anything to do with it?

 

[Guest]

:B-fly: Animals also differ from one another in different parts
of the world. Geographical location tends to have a great deal to
do with how we look,and tends to be passed on through our DNA
long after our families have moved away from their native country.
The same must be true of animals.
When new races or peoples are added that differ from the original
group or family,you will see variations in the new generations of the
children.
Why does the location of our ancestors matter so much?
For whatever reason,it does.
God knows why,amen.

 

[Asimov]

What I am trying to help you understand is that
DNA has more options to choose from now that it is much older.

What I don't understand, is how you can say this without actually backing it up, blue.

I don't look like either one of my parents,but I do strongly look
like my Great Grand-Mother. I am saying that DNA is unique in
all of us,but at the same time we are simular to our ancestors.
We are not clones. We are all one of a kind,yet we are all
simular in the fact that we are all human beings. We are all from
many races,yet we all originally came from one race.
Animals may differ from one another in the same species,yet they
are all the same species. Cats always stay cats for instance,even
if they differ to some degree.
The differences that do occur have nothing to do with evolution,though
some people try to claim that it does,and that this is what they mean
by evolution. To me it doesn't mean anything like that at all.
[/b]

Hahha..blue, I know what DNA does, and is. I know that it is unique. But you don't seem to understand evolutionary theory at all. I'm not going to respond to your multitude of posts, because they all say the same thing.

Your websites you post, I know you're not one to copy and paste, I said for you to argue, in your own words, what the website is saying. Not just post the links.

 

[Asimov]

We are getting larger and bigger?
I'm only 5' 2 1/2,and I'm less than 120 pounds.

On average blue...you are an individual, you don't set the bar. Women are and were generally smaller than males. But if the average person tried to fit into a suit of armour from...say the middle ages, he wouldn't be able to fit.

The bible also says that in the last days many people
would turn to fables instead of believing the truth of
sound doctrine.

Which is what you are doing.

 

[Guest]

We are getting larger and bigger?
I'm only 5' 2 1/2,and I'm less than 120 pounds.

On average blue...you are an individual, you don't set the bar. Women are and were generally smaller than males. But if the average person tried to fit into a suit of armour from...say the middle ages, he wouldn't be able to fit.

The bible also says that in the last days many people
would turn to fables instead of believing the truth of
sound doctrine.

Which is what you are doing.

:B-fly: I beg to differ thank you!
There were giants on the earth at one time,yet they are no longer
here today. Have you measured the skeletons of anyone from
the middle ages? How would you know these things?
We no longer have giants on the earth,but at one time they did exist.
This could explain why there are some people who are taller than the
normal individual,but they are not the majority.

 

[Guest]

What I am trying to help you understand is that
DNA has more options to choose from now that it is much older.

What I don't understand, is how you can say this without actually backing it up, blue.

I don't look like either one of my parents,but I do strongly look
like my Great Grand-Mother. I am saying that DNA is unique in
all of us,but at the same time we are simular to our ancestors.
We are not clones. We are all one of a kind,yet we are all
simular in the fact that we are all human beings. We are all from
many races,yet we all originally came from one race.
Animals may differ from one another in the same species,yet they
are all the same species. Cats always stay cats for instance,even
if they differ to some degree.
The differences that do occur have nothing to do with evolution,though
some people try to claim that it does,and that this is what they mean
by evolution. To me it doesn't mean anything like that at all.
[/b]

Hahha..blue, I know what DNA does, and is. I know that it is unique. But you don't seem to understand evolutionary theory at all. I'm not going to respond to your multitude of posts, because they all say the same thing.

Your websites you post, I know you're not one to copy and paste, I said for you to argue, in your own words, what the website is saying. Not just post the links.

:B-fly: I am backing up what I say,but I have yet to see you
do the same.

 

[B]

Quote;
''We no longer have giants on the earth,but at one time they did exist.
This could explain why there are some people who are taller than the
normal individual,but they are not the majority.''

Giants? Where? Surely some skeletons would have been found. Strangly enough, Around the time the bible was written, when the bones of extinct large animals were found, the only explanation must could have been ''giants''. Amazing that some people still take the lines of centuries ago.

Does the sun go around the earth too?

 

[Guest]

Giants? Where? Surely some skeletons would have been found. Strangly enough, Around the time the bible was written, when the bones of extinct large animals were found, the only explanation must could have been ''giants''. Amazing that some people still take the lines of centuries ago.

Does the sun go around the earth too?

:B-fly: How do you know that they haven't been?
If they have been,don't assume that it means your fairytail is true.
[/b]Can you read Isaiah 40:22
If you are so bright,why did peoples DNA change due to the location
where they lived? The only logical explaination would have to be because
God seperated all the people at Babel and certain groups of people
inter-bred among themselves for a very long time,and thats how we got
all the different races we have now. It's amazing to me how some people
cannot tolerate the fact that God exists and that there is a great price to
pay for their sins.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

SyntaxVorlon writes:

<snip>

bibleberean comments:

You know what? You said nothing. I mean zilch in that string of words.

I said a great deal, do you want me to put my argument into standard form?
1: Evolution, as defined by science, happens.(Objective fact)
2: There exists a heirarchy in the animal types that have existed over the past few hundred million years that we can see in the fossil record.(Also a fact)
3: Because we know 1 and we know 2, it logically follows that the two are related, because both have to do with the genetic character of organisms.
4: The conclusion here is that Evolution created the fossil heirarchy we see in the fossil record.

Explain to me how a dinosaur can develop feathers and wings and evolve into a bird over any period of time?

Done before, though I would contend that feathers are a slightly warmer insulating type of scales that would do better for warm blooded dinosaurs in cooler climates. This is supported by fossil evidence.

If you can do that you will have my undivided attention. I promise.

Explain to me how life came into existence from non life.

Read a book on abiogenesis, it's not my area of expertise.

Comment on this quotation from an earlier post.

"Why does blood clot only at the point of bleeding and not within the veins and arteries and stop clotting when the bleeding stops?

Imagine the billions of animals that would have bled to death or been killed by improper blood clotting before this incredible process was perfected by chance!"

Enough with the huge letters they don't help. And I DID comment on this in an earlier post.