[_ Old Earth _] Evolution is not based on empirical evidence

[ThinkerMan]

I appreciate your ability to present evidence in a clear manner, but ask ThinkerMan how I resond to attitudes.

I don't seem to recall ever t-ing you off with attitude....please link my post if I have done so. I searched my posts since you have joined and found nothing....in fact we had a rather civil discussion for quite a while on another forum...

Not to say I haven't used a bit of sarcasm before (see above post).

TM

 

[Tiger]

Now, my friend Tiger, as I told the Tuatha'an, I do not respond kindly to rudeness. Again, I ask you to read my explaination. While blueeyeliner may suggest that evolution has become a religion, [ and I agree] I did not present my information as such.

I do not know why you are mentioning the way you respond to rudeness, unless it is some form of warning.
Would you please explain this to me?

I read your explaination, and, again, state that you were not talking about evolution in the manner (and with the meaning) that B.E.L. was.
As such, your post fails to explain B.E.L.s point.

I did point out that some Atheists do indeed have a "semi-religious" zeal when it comes to evolution. This was in agreement with your post, and in no way suggested that you were trying to make a case for evolution being a religion.

If you would like to show me where I made that suggestion, I would be grateful and would apologize. However, should you discover that I made no such implication, would you do me the same curtesy. (to avoid being rude, you understand)

 

[Asimov]

Well, The Tuatha'an, I'm glad I've finally had the opportunityto talk with you. I appreciate your ability to present evidence in a clear manner, but ask ThinkerMan how I resond to attitudes. I will continue to treat you with the respect you deserve unless you give me reason not to. Such as treating me, or my friends with disrespect[ including Mrs. Eyeliner]

I treat all with the respect they deserve. I have not mistreated you in any way that I can see.

Please return to my post and point to me where I claimed Evolution is a religion. I, in fact, know I did not. Allow me to quote myself, and show what i believe you misunderstood

...since evoultion has become such an obcession to some of you atheist,[ no offense intended my atheistic friends] you really have gotten a taste for what religion is like. You all are very devoted to this cause, I've read many of your posts, and it seems that you would not like to give up this opinion for any cost.

I said you devote yourselves to It like a religion.

And I said it's wrong. I devote myself to debating objective truth. Evolution is merely a part of that objective truth.

Now, my friend Tiger, as I told the Tuatha'an, I do not respond kindly to rudeness. Again, I ask you to read my explaination. While blueeyeliner may suggest that evolution has become a religion, [ and I agree] I did not present my information as such.

So now you just admitted that Evolution is a religion. As I've shown you that's wrong, you're admitting to agreeing to fallacy. Evolution itself is not the religion. Debating against scientific fallacy is an activity that I pursue with zeal...that would be construed as a religion. Not the subject itself. Like I said, I devote myself to objective truth, if you wish to call that a religion, that's fine.

I hope you don't take this as "attitude", because it's not intended to be offensive.

 

[Tiger]

Now, my friend Tiger, as I told the Tuatha'an, I do not respond kindly to rudeness. Again, I ask you to read my explaination. While blueeyeliner may suggest that evolution has become a religion, [ and I agree] I did not present my information as such.

So now you just admitted that Evolution is a religion. As I've shown you that's wrong, you're admitting to agreeing to fallacy. Evolution itself is not the religion. Debating against scientific fallacy is an activity that I pursue with zeal...that would be construed as a religion. Not the subject itself. Like I said, I devote myself to objective truth, if you wish to call that a religion, that's fine.

I hope you don't take this as "attitude", because it's not intended to be offensive.

Thank you for pointing that out to me... I will admit I missed that the first time I read it.

Brutus, you posted in a manner that gave no indication that you agreed with B.E.L. Why, then, are you asking me to re-read your post that explained B.E.L.s statement when you deliberately presented your information in such a way as to hide your agreement with her? (doesn't explain things when you do that... Confuses things, maybe, but not explains them)


Btw... If you want to talk about rudeness, consider B.E.L.

So far she has called into question my honesty, my integrity, my intelligence, my capacity for reason, and my comunication skills...
This within my first 36 hours on this forum, and all because I pointed out a mistake she keeps making. (as a teacher, she should know the importance of correcting mistakes. That is, after all, what she should be doing with her students...)

I do recall that she posted telling someone not to insult her recently. Maybe she should practice what she preaches...

 

[Guest]

:roll: I challenge you all to research for yourselves and you simply
refuse. You won't listen to any of the experts or anyone else.
You will only accept what you want to believe.You are not even clear
on what it is that you do believe,you just want to argue with me.
Henry Morris is well respected researcher and he has a great deal of
information about evolution and I believe him,and Dave Hunt.
If you are not rude,prove it .
Why would any true christian lie about evolution? What would be their
motive?

 

[Guest]

So now you just admitted that Evolution is a religion. As I've shown you that's wrong, you're admitting to agreeing to fallacy. Evolution itself is not the religion. Debating against scientific fallacy is an activity that I pursue with zeal...that would be construed as a religion. Not the subject itself. Like I said, I devote myself to objective truth, if you wish to call that a religion, that's fine.

:D You have most certainly showed no such thing,not now or ever!
Where is your so called evidence? What makes your word more true
than anyone else's? Evolution is an ancient pagan religious belief and
it has no evidence to support it. If it does,where is it?
Where is your truth? If you desired truth,you'd believe in God,amen.

 

[Guest]

8-) Is there any atheist here that can tell us what science is,
because you seem to believe science supports your religious views
and I don't see how it could at all. Tell us what science is please!
You must use your own words,and you must show evidence in your
own words.
Science does not support TOE and TOE has not ever been observed
or ever seen and there is no proof.
It cannot be tested,and it cannot be repeated.

 

[Guest]

I do not know why you are mentioning the way you respond to rudeness, unless it is some form of warning.
Would you please explain this to me?

I read your explaination, and, again, state that you were not talking about evolution in the manner (and with the meaning) that B.E.L. was.
As such, your post fails to explain B.E.L.s point.

:wink: As I have told you many times already,Claiming evolution
and also claiming to be an evolutionist contradicts itself.
You cannot be both. I know John Kerry thinks people can do that,but
actually you cannot sit on both sides of the fence on this.
You are either one or the other.
Many excellent books by Josh McDowell,a former atheist points this out
very well,as do many others. You cannot be a true atheist and be connected with religion. Thats a contradiction.

 

[Guest]

[quote:dc50b]and they also don't get involved in any religions

"Warning, this is a false assumption"

Indeed. For example, Buddhists are religious but do not worship a creator god.[/quote:dc50b]

perhaps,yet it is still a religion and there is worship involved!

 

[Guest]

You are assuming something that is not correct. As a result of which, your entire arguement, (which is based on that assumption) is meaningless.
:o Prove this please!
Definition of religion in the American Century Dictionary says:
religion 1. belief in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience
and worship 2. expression of this in worship 3.particular system of
faith and worship 4. thing that one is devoted to (L religio bond)

 

[Tiger]

You are assuming something that is not correct. As a result of which, your entire arguement, (which is based on that assumption) is meaningless.

:o Prove this please!
Definition of religion in the American Century Dictionary says:
religion 1. belief in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience
and worship 2. expression of this in worship 3.particular system of
faith and worship 4. thing that one is devoted to (L religio bond)

Atheists do not believe in God... Not all religions involve Gods... You assume that Atheists don't believe in religion, which is the false assumption.

 

[Sophistress]

I'm glad Blue provided us with a definition. Now perhaps she should actually read the definition, particularly definiton 4.

 

[Blazin Bones]

I appreciate your ability to present evidence in a clear manner, but ask ThinkerMan how I resond to attitudes.

I don't seem to recall ever t-ing you off with attitude....please link my post if I have done so. I searched my posts since you have joined and found nothing....in fact we had a rather civil discussion for quite a while on another forum...

Not to say I haven't used a bit of sarcasm before (see above post).

TM

I apologize ThinkerMan, I respect your opinions as higher than that of the others I posted with in our discussion. You present opinions in a calm and fair manner. That is why I referenced you. I'm sure you have read my final post in the "new start" thread. I did not mean to point a finger at you as the one who had the temper. As I said, I respect you more than that. On that matter, How have you been my friend? You are the person who I thought would present a clear picture as to how I responded to keebs' loss of temper. I really do apologize if I miss-led you and the others.

 

[Blazin Bones]

I do believe that in general, many evolutionists, not all treat there belief as strictly as I treat my faith In the One True Living God. If you refuse to read my post in the correct contexts, I can not argue with you all fairly. God bless you all.

 

[Asimov]

I do believe that in general, many evolutionists, not all treat there belief as strictly as I treat my faith In the One True Living God. If you refuse to read my post in the correct contexts, I can not argue with you all fairly. God bless you all.

How have I not read your post in the correct context?? You said that BLE claimed that evolution is a religions, and you put in parenthesis that you agreed.

How is that not an admission?

 

[Blazin Bones]

[quote="Brutus/HisCatalyst":0a897]I do believe that in general, many evolutionists, not all treat there belief as strictly as I treat my faith In the One True Living God. If you refuse to read my post in the correct contexts, I can not argue with you all fairly. God bless you all.

How have I not read your post in the correct context?? You said that BLE claimed that evolution is a religions, and you put in parenthesis that you agreed.

How is that not an admission?[/quote:0a897]

My dear friend The Tuatha'an, I do indeed agree with blueeyeliner, but did you read why blueeyeliner and I have come to the same conclusion. They are two different roads to the same point. While I will not speak for Mrs. Eyeliner, I will post how I came to that conclusion once again.

The reason I believe that evolution is becoming religious, is due to the way you all treat it. Many, not all, Atheist treat evolution as a fact, when in truth it is still just an unproven theory. I treat creation in a similar manner, while I can not prove it I hold it as true. Just as you have faith in evolution, I have faith in the creation made by Our Lord. So you may be correct in saying evolution is not a religion, but why then do so many Atheist behave in the same manner I do when I tell of my God.

Tua, I hope that clarifies what has brought me to that conclusion, and why I see evolutionism becoming a religion. I hope that My dearest friend, Mrs.Eyeliner, will share her veiw as well. God's blessings to all.

 

[Asimov]

The reason I believe that evolution is becoming religious, is due to the way you all treat it. Many, not all, Atheist treat evolution as a fact, when in truth it is still just an unproven theory. I treat creation in a similar manner, while I can not prove it I hold it as true. Just as you have faith in evolution, I have faith in the creation made by Our Lord. So you may be correct in saying evolution is not a religion, but why then do so many Atheist behave in the same manner I do when I tell of my God.

Ok, first of all, evolution is a fact. Evolutionary Theory is not. The evolution that is treated as fact, is as much a fact as gravity.

The Evolutionary Theory that is not treated as fact, is as much a fact as the Germ Theory of Disease, or Atomic Theory. These explanations are the best explanations we have for how things work.

Evolutionary Theory best explains the evidence of the fossil record, genetics, and how and why all animals are alike.

It's not just Atheists who debate for evolution with fervor. It is people who accept evolutionary theory, and who know the Creationism's scientific ideas are false. It has nothing to do with the existence of God. It has everything to do with the correct information being spread.

Tua, I hope that clarifies what has brought me to that conclusion, and why I see evolutionism becoming a religion. I hope that My dearest friend, Mrs.Eyeliner, will share her veiw as well. God's blessings to all.

Now you see, that it is not evolution that is the religious part, it's truth. You can view anything as a religion though, even brushing your teeth. I don't view evolution as religious, I view discussion and debate as religious. So, in essence, you're wrong.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Well, Tua, why do scientist then not except this theory as law if it is so much fact. As to me being wrong, most evolutionists think I'm wrong. That still doesn't make me wrong.

 

[keebs]

I though he made it perfectly clear that the process of evolution is a fact, and that evolutionary theory isn't. But, judging from previous posts, you like the Merriam-Webster dictionary so much, I've decided to look up the words. The only definition presented in the dictionary for law that does not relate to the legal system is:

"6 a : a statement of an order or relation of phenomena that so far as is known is invariable under the given conditions b : a general relation proved or assumed to hold between mathematical or logical expressions"

While, the definitions of fact that are relevant to our discussions here are:

"3 : the quality of being actual : ACTUALITY <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
4 a : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
5 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality
- in fact : in truth"

It seems to me as though a fact is a stronger form of reality than a law. And you cannot make any claims about the reference being wrong or the fact that these definitions are abstractions, as you have used the same source in your favor in previous proofs. But, you are right on one thing--popular belief does not equate to truth (make sure blue finds this out, because she seems to think that atheists are wrong because we are a minority...and because the bible says we're wrong, although I easily dismiss that one because you cannot use the bible to prove the bible).

 

[Asimov]

Well, Tua, why do scientist then not except this theory as law if it is so much fact. As to me being wrong, most evolutionists think I'm wrong. That still doesn't make me wrong.

No, I think you are wrong in the context that evolution is a religion. It is not. I have shown that you are wrong.

A Law is "A statement describing a relationship observed to be invariable between or among phenomena for all cases in which the specified conditions are met: the law of gravity."

Gravity is a fact, a law, and a Theory.