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Evolution Is Religion--Not Science

Kind of like the dance you did here?

You don't like straight answers. I get that. You asked if Jesus was involved in the evolutionary process. I pointed out that He created that process. I'd call that involvement.

He being a man i agree but is he a part of the evolutionary process according to evolutionary biologists..

Barbarian muses...
Hmm... I read the literature a lot, and I never saw that. Do you have a checkable source for that story?

(apparently doesn't)

Barbarian observes:
But He is also man, a man who was subject to fear and pain, hunger and thirst, and capable of sin. (otherwise His temptation by Satan is meaningless)

Your dancing a familiar dance

In other words, you were hoping for a different answer than you got. Sorry. And you ignored my request for you to substantiate your claim that evolutionary biologists say that Jesus was part of an evolutionary process. I won't call it "dancing", but it's something you need to answer.

Tristan knew immediately what i meant you danced around it..

I don't get it. Are you asking if Jesus evolved? That would be "no", since individuals don't evolve. Populations evolve. But I gave you the correct answer. Jesus is involved in the evolutionary process because He created it.

This thread is about evolution being a religion,

I'm always surprised that people who claim to be believers, will try to use "religion" as a pejorative label. As you learned, sciences like evolution are not religions, because they depend on evidence, not faith. You shouldn't feel that faith is a bad thing. Jesus says that you can't enter Heaven unless you put your faith in Him.

Let that be enough.

a religion designed to make a monkey out of Jesus, for or against, yes or no, its not that difficult..

Easy there. No. That idea is just a story creationists tell the followers to keep them on the reservation.
 
I appreciate your posts, Barbarian!

It doesn't make sense to me how Christians can be threatened by science. God is the creator of everything...so he is also the creator of everything we discover scientifically...so rather than clinging to ideology, I just view science as a way to learn about God's creation.
 
I hope nobody gets the impression anyone here is threatened by science. Anywhere there has been any overlap empirical evidence doesn't contradict the bible. It's when people put their faith in science that cause issues.
Taking this literal because it supports an idealogy:
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind"
Yet take this as figurative because it doesn't support that same idealogogy:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Is putting more faith in science than the bible. True science isn't concerned with the origin of man, it's concerned with things like curing diseases and improving the quality of life. Scientism is trusting some scientists interpretation of the evidence more than trusting the bible.

Definition of SCIENTISM
1
: methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist
2
: an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social sciences, and the humanities)
 
I hope nobody gets the impression anyone here is threatened by science.

That is the impression you leave, yes.

Anywhere there has been any overlap empirical evidence doesn't contradict the bible. It's when people put their faith in science that cause issues.

That would be wrong. Evolution is accepted by the overwhelming majority of scientists because of the evidence, not faith. This is why scientists talk about the evidence for evolution, instead of making faith statements.

Taking this literal because it supports an idealogy:
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind"

It's very clear. God says that the earth brought forth living things. If you don't believe this, what will you believe?

Yet take this as figurative because it doesn't support that same idealogogy:
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

It's no more figurative than the first. Man, like all living things, came from the earth. The difference is, God gives us an immortal soul directly. Notice that He doesn't do that for the other animals.

Is putting more faith in science than the bible.

Science doesn't say these things. God does. I believe Him.

True science isn't concerned with the origin of man,

Actually, it is. In fact, as you learned, we have a great deal of evidence for the way humans evolved. The origin of our souls is a different issue, and one that is beyond science. These are things all Christians should know.

it's concerned with things like curing diseases and improving the quality of life.

No. You're thinking of medicine and engineering, both of which borrow from science. Science is just about finding out. Applications are not the point.

If you want to learn about the ways that creationists react to, and promote scientism, read this:
http://www.sinauer.com/denying-evolution-creationism-scientism-and-the-nature-of-science.html
 
As I've said before, God created the universe, why should we be threatened by discoveries made through the scientific method? If I believe something and we discover through physical evidence that I am wrong, I will change my perspective...as I have learned something from God's natural world. He created it didn't he?

Science is very good at helping us discover the physical world around us. It doesn't explain nonphysical things like our spirit (note: I believe body+spirit = soul). In the physical world I'm comfortable with science for learning. It just doesn't help my spiritual life.
 
Precisely so. Science can't tell you about things like God, ethics, and your salvation. Fortunately, it's not the only way of knowing.
 
That is the impression you leave, yes.
Not to anyone that knows the difference between pseudo science and true science.

"It is common belief that all cellular life forms on earth have a common origin."
http://www.biologydirect.com/content/pdf/1745-6150-5-64.pdf

That is a statement of faith. They are talking about a belief when they talk of common origins not the scientific method. Since common ancestry is a belief, it falls into the category of philosophy. True science does not operate on beliefs, pseudo science does.
Whether you know it or not, you're selling the philosophy of naturalism or at least attempting to merge it with Christianity.
 
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Vaccine writes:
I hope nobody gets the impression anyone here is threatened by science.

Barbarian observes:
That is the impression you leave, yes.

Not to anyone that knows the difference between pseudo science and true science.

Well, let's see how peudoscience tries to misuse words to attack science:

"It is common belief that all cellular life forms on earth have a common origin."
http://www.biologydirect.com/content/pdf/1745-6150-5-64.pdf

That is a statement of faith.

No. That dodge depends on muddling what "belief" means. It can mean:
"I believe in God." (faith statement)
"I believe that is checkmate." (assertion of obvious fact)
"Because of genetic, anatomical, embryological and fossil evidence, scientists believe common descent is a fact." (scientific inference from data)
"I believe I'll have another Guinness." (Barbarian's expression of intent)

The intended result is to conflate the first and third meanings. It is effective only if people don't consider what the word means.

They are talking about a belief when they talk of common origins not the scientific method.

See above. Playing with word meanings won't help you. Find some evidence and put together a cogent argument from that. And be careful where you get your information. You told us that Koonin denies common descent, and as you saw, he says the evidence for it is "overwhelming."

Since common ancestry is a belief, it falls into the category of philosophy.

And now you know different.

True science does not operate on beliefs, pseudo science does.

It was a nice try, but it won't work here. Think about it. If the argument they gave you depends on a dishonest conflation of meaning, isn't that an important clue for you?

Whether you know it or not, you're selling a blatant dishonesty. From what I know of you, I'm pretty sure you didn't think the idea through very well, and did not intend to deceive anyone.
 
See above. Playing with word meanings won't help you. Find some evidence and put together a cogent argument from that. And be careful where you get your information. You told us that Koonin denies common descent, and as you saw, he says the evidence for it is "overwhelming."

What I said in post #22 was "An objective scientist would have to say DNA is inconclusive."
What you said in post #25 was: "Show me any world-class geneticist who denies that DNA is evidence for common descent."
I offered Koonin's name, I did not say Koonin denies common descent. In another post I read somewere "There's nothing I hate worse than a stupid argument for something I believe to be true." Here are Koonin's own words:

"before the advent of molecular biology, the UCA hypothesis remained an untested and hardly testable speculation. However, first the universality of the genetic code and later the demonstration of the (near) universal conservation of approximately 100 RNA and protein-coding genes among cellular life forms provided ample evidence in support of the UCA [2,3]. Although generally considered compelling, this evidence fell short of a rigorous, formal test of the UCA hypothesis.
"It is interesting to note that this formal demonstration of the common ancestry of life seems to quickly gain quite some following"
"We maintain, however, that the purported formal demonstration of the Universal Common Ancestry of all known cellular life forms is illusory"

"This experiment demonstrates that the phenomenon observed by Theobald [4] is, indeed, 'entirely a product of our ability to accurately predict the sequence of a related protein relative to an unrelated protein' regardless of the acual history of the corresponding sequences. Alignments of statistically similar but phylogenetically unrelated sequences successfully mimic the purported effect of common origin. Thus, the nature and origin of the similarity between the aligned sequences are irrelevant for the prediction of 'common ancestry'."
"The tests described above show that there is currently no formal demonstration of the universal common ancestry of the extant life forms. The likelihood tests of the kind described by Theobald fail to address the problem because they yield results in support of 'common ancestry' for any sufficiently similar sequences. The alternative to UCA is convergent evolution of highly similar sequences of the universal proteins (under the convergence hypothesis, the phrase 'universally conserved' becomes an oxymoron)."

"Accordingly, common ancestry (or homology, in the modern, post-Darwinian sense) of the compared proteins remains an inference from sequence similarity rather than an independent property demonstrated by the likelihood analysis."
http://www.biologydirect.com/content/pdf/1745-6150-5-64.pdf

Thank you for providing that article, it reiterates what I said in post #30 was :"Common ancestry is not based on empirical evidence, it is an inference. Many consider it strong evidence, but a common designer explains the evidence just as well."
To the best of my knowledge Koonin is in favor of a forest of genes. Independent trees is compatible with biblical kinds, whereas a universal common ancestor wasn't.
Whether you know it or not, you're selling a blatant dishonesty. From what I know of you, I'm pretty sure you didn't think the idea through very well, and did not intend to deceive anyone.

If what I say bothers you, I suggest you should re-examin your position and address issues not people. I was only pointing out common ancestry is based on a naturalistic philosophy whereas common design is based on a theistic philosophy. People can believe what they want, common ancestry is no different than believing common designer.

Also, in light of Koonin's comment "..the Universal Common Ancestry of all known cellular life forms is illusory." I was not misusing the term "belief" in this sentence: "it is common belief that all cellular life forms on earth have a common origin."
I'm just pointing out Christians putting their faith in common ancestry is misplaced. Just because some scientists have faith in common ancestry doesn't mean we have to.
 
Barbarian observes:
See above. Playing with word meanings won't help you. Find some evidence and put together a cogent argument from that. And be careful where you get your information. You told us that Koonin denies common descent, and as you saw, he says the evidence for it is "overwhelming."

What I said in post #22 was "An objective scientist would have to say DNA is inconclusive."

You don't think Koonin is an objective scientist? He says the DNA evidence is overwhelming.

The common ancestry of life
Eugene V Koonin* and Yuri I Wolf
Biology Direct 2010, 5:64
Conclusion

A formal demonstration of the Universal Common Ancestry hypothesis has not been achieved and is unlikely to be feasible in principle. Nevertheless, the evidence in support of this hypothesis provided by comparative genomics is overwhelming.

What you said in post #25 was: "Show me any world-class geneticist who denies that DNA is evidence for common descent."
I offered Koonin's name, I did not say Koonin denies common descent.

See above. He says that the evidence from DNA is "overwhelming."

I'm just pointing out Christians putting their faith in common ancestry is misplaced. Just because some scientists have faith in common ancestry doesn't mean we have to.

Faith won't work in science. It comes down to evidence. And as Koonin says, the genomic evidence for common descent is "overwhelming."
 
YosefHayim said:

The theory of Evolution is not a part of Free Masonry, nor a part of Nazism, nor a part of Atheism. Groups can take ideas and concepts from the theory and apply it how they will, but the theory in itself is not a religious doctrine.

Almost 2 minutes into the video the presenter states that Evolution says that organisms will continue to get better and better. Evolution does not state this. the Theory of Evolution only states that organisms will adapt and change to their environment, and those that can't adapt will go extinct. There is also no end goal to Evolution. Its a described process.

Theory of evolution did not start with Darwin's grandfather. Charles Darwin penned the actual theory of evolution, however there was already similar concepts in science at the time. Lemarkism was commonly excepted, and there was also concepts that organisms did evolve, but there was no know mechanic to prescribe. Charles Darwin figured out the mechanic of Natural selection and Mendel figured out genetics. Once again, this has nothing to do with Masonry.

The video also has a problem of stating that books say one thing, and that this person says another, but we never see the writings of these people. So the video creator could be making it up, or taking out of context things said.

I only made it 5 minutes in and stopped at where the presented started claiming that John Locke used Hindu ideals because supposedly at that time it lines up with the trading company that would be bringing back stories from India.

The video is taking random facts and assuming it all fits together. Nothing is verified. Its all based off of assumption.
 
I don't think anyone really has a problem with the theory of evolution, since we observe those changes. It's what we can't observe, universal common ancestry, that I don't believe in. Darwinism is the belief in UCA. To me believing "the universe, then organisms, just got ‘better and better’, till finally we came along." is implying progress.
http://creation.com/charles-darwins-real-message-have-you-missed-it#f5

From what I've learned, Mendel wasn't a fan of Darwin's ideas.
"Gärtner by the results of these transformation experiments, was led to oppose the opinion of those naturalists who dispute the stability of plant species and believe in a continuous evolution of vegetation. He perceives in the complete transformation of one species into another an indubitable proof that species are fixed within limits beyond which they cannot change." -Gregor Mendel
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel

From what I've learned of Darwin, he was a fan of materialism. In one of Darwin's early notebooks he referred to himself as a materialist. In another notebook he said this:
"To avoid stating how far I believe in Materialism, say only that emotions, instincts, degrees of talent, which are hereditary are so because brain of child resembles parent stock – (and phrenologists state that brain alters)...." Charles Darwin (1838) The M Notebook.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expression_of_the_Emotions_in_Man_and_Animals

The co-founder of evolution, Alfred Wallace, wrote this in a 1869 article published in the Quarterly Review:
‘Natural Selection could only have endowed the savage with a brain a little superior to that of an ape, whereas he actually possesses one but very little inferior to that of the average members of our learned societies.’7,8 When Darwin read this, he scribbled ‘No’ in the margin, underlined it three times, and added a shower of exclamation marks.
In the same article Wallace added, ‘… we must therefore admit the possibility, that in the development of the human race, a Higher Intelligence has guided the same laws [of variation, multiplication, and survival] for nobler ends.’7 Darwin was aghast. He wrote to Wallace, saying that he differed grievously from him,9 and in another letter said, ‘I hope you have not murdered too completely your own and my child.’10
http://creation.com/alfred-russel-wallace-co-inventor-of-Darwinism

I should point out Wallace was agnostic, by "Higher intelligence" he didn't mean the God described in the bible. Darwin objected to a "Higher intelligence" even, since his real message was promoting materialism.

"We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ," 2 Cor 10

Paul instructs us to destroy speckulations? UCA is speckulation...
 
To me believing "the universe, then organisms, just got ‘better and better’, till finally we came along." is implying progress.
Theory of Evolution does not state the universe or organisms keep getting better and better.

From what I've learned, Mendel wasn't a fan of Darwin's ideas.
It doesn't matter if Mendel liked Darwin or his ideas. Darwin made a ton of hypothesises that Mendel later found to be wrong. However, its not if they liked each other or agreed. It is what scientist were able to discover using these people's findings.


From what I've learned of Darwin, he was a fan of materialism. In one of Darwin's early notebooks he referred to himself as a materialist. In another notebook he said
Darwin's personal opinions don't matter. The only thing that matters is if theory holds up to the evidence. If it doesn't, it gets changed to suit the evidence.

The co-founder of evolution, Alfred Wallace, wrote this in a 1869 article published in the Quarterly Review:
I cut out the article for the sake of space. He wasn't a cofounder. He was another scientist that had objections. Also, what Wallace puts forward is just an assertion. Its not fact just because he said it. Wallace's couldn't explain why a higher power was necessary.
I should point out Wallace was agnostic, by "Higher intelligence" he didn't mean the God described in the bible.
It doesn't matter, even if he really meant a cosmic potato. Wallace's statement is just an assertion, an untestable assertion.
his real message was promoting materialism.
Darwin never stated any such thing.
 
But what if a group of people had devised a system of knowledge that does not, simply can not, not in any case, admit the possibility of the miracle? What if that system of knowledge adamantly established facts based on observations of the limits that are applicable to man as if they applied in all cases, even those cases where God Himself has declared otherwise? Conservation of Energy comes to mind. There are other Laws that are considered universally applicable too.

Would that system of knowledge be considered a belief system? Certainly not to all but ...

What if, when we started to peel back the layers of that onion we found "believers" who supported the idea that knowledge itself was key to understanding? What if one of their tenets were that to know oneself, at the deepest level is to know God. What if this was their gospel?

This is the secret of gnosis."(The Gnostic Gospels, p xviii-xix).
 
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But what if a group of people had devised a system of knowledge that does not, simply can not, not in any case, admit the possibility of the miracle?
If you are talking about the scientific method, its not "the system". The Point of science is to study the natural world and observe how it functions. Miricals, in themselves, are undefinable and are super natural.
What if that system of knowledge adamantly established facts based on observations of the limits that are applicable to man as if they applied in all cases, even those cases where God Himself has declared otherwise?
Its irrelevant to science.
Conservation of Energy comes to mind. There are other Laws that are considered universally applicable too.
The Laws are universal, only as far as we understand and have observed. However, as with Newtonian Mechanics, we might discover conditions where the Conservation of energy doesn't apply. For instance the Big Bang theory of the singularity might be the situation where Newtonian Mechanics doesn't apply. Just like how Netownian Relativity doesn't work with large heavenly bodies, so we use Special relativity to define this area.

Would that system of knowledge be considered a belief system? Certainly not to all but ...
Its a tool.

What if, when we started to peel back the layers of that onion we found "believers" who supported the idea that knowledge itself was key to understanding? What if one of their tenets were that to know oneself, at the deepest level is to know God. What if this was their gospel?
That is irrelevant to the theory of Evolution, because Evolution has nothing to do with any of that.

This is the secret of gnosis."(The Gnostic Gospels, p xviii-xix).
One thing that I think is one of the biggest trip ups for discussion "evolution", is that people forget that the theory of Evolution is just a tool. Religious and philosophical groups can use the theory and use it to shape their beliefs around, but the theory itself isn't the belief system. Just like how the theory of gravity and Germ theory in themselves don't form religions, but religions can cite these theories as evidence and concepts for their doctrine.
 
Sparrowhawke I think you're right, the farther back we go the more we see scientific inquiry began as a means to learn more about God. It has become a tool to explain natural phenomenon, but it began as a search for truth. Most scientists were educated people because most universities and colleges began as seminaries. Isaac Newton wrote more about Jesus than he did about gravity.
"Many great scientists of the past were “Bible-believing” Christians. An English doctor, Dr. James Simpson, discovered chloroform’s anesthetic qualities in the 1800′s. When Dr. Simpson was asked what his greatest discovery was, he replied: ”It was not chloroform. It was to know I am a sinner and that I could be saved by the grace of God. A man has missed the whole meaning of life if he has not entered into an active, living relationship with God through Christ.”
http://discovercreation.org/blog/2012/04/12/painless-surgery/

It has been claimed that Morton’s inspiration for this painless surgery came from Genesis 2:21.
http://discovercreation.org/blog/2012/04/12/painless-surgery/


Which brings us to Darwin, who knew the far reaching implications of his theory.
"The myth of the ‘kindly slow-witted naturalist stumbling across evolution’ was fostered by an autobiography Darwin wrote as a deliberately self-effacing moral homily for his children, not intending it to be published. It was a common Victorian thing to do. His notebooks tell a different story, of an ambitious young man who knew he had one of the most radical ideas in the history of thought."
"He knew as a young man that he had ‘the key to one of the great reforming ideas of history and systematically [went] out to reformulate every discipline from psychology to history.’5"
http://creation.mobi/realmessage

Darwin seemed to know how materialism would redefine other disciplines of science.
 
Milk-Drops, thank you for the reply. You may already know but it's been awhile since I've stated that I do very much enjoy science. I'm also not opposed to what has been discovered and labeled "Evolution". Further, if we accept the theory on the basis of what is observed and restrain our conclusions to what has been witnessed? There is no "religiosity" involved.

We all operate under the burden of assumption. You may think me as the "opposition" because I'm a member and Moderator of the Young Earth Creation forum. But you should know that my posting rights to that forum came because I said that I was open to the idea. What I should confess is my ignorance and not my knowledge. I don't know and can't rightly declare what I have not seen. But when it comes to that, to the limits of my observed knowledge, pardon me as I point to the fact that what limits me here does not seem to limit others.

Who was there when God made the heavens and the earth? Who observed this? Men have written as they were inspired by our Creator and many arguments about what He has stated have been brought against the simple truth that there is only one who may say what He did. I have no problem with knowledge or science but when this becomes a basis to deny what has not been observed directly? When some come to say that God did not create Adam, that He did not make a promise to the seed of the woman or that He is not even today keeping that promise by showing himself, by sending His son to show us so that we are able to see HIM?

Well those who have voluntary blinders might also consider putting the rest of the gear on so that they too may harness their mouths to the Spirit of God who loves us. That would be okay. It would be good, but it's too much to hope for, isn't it? If "Science" was limited to statement of observed fact and did no longer search to prove or disprove what can not be considered apart from their insights and limit itself to what is actually seen? Then truly could it be said that it does not attempt to reach beyond the physical. But that's the subtle part of our system of knowledge. When I spoke earlier of the "System of Knowledge" you mistakenly heard me speak as if I was thinking about the Scientific Method. That was not my thought.

Instead what I was thinking about was the way we fail when we consider knowledge itself. We fail because there are no clear boundaries between what is known through direct observation experienced and what may be considered "known" via "reflection" -- there is knowledge that does not require me to get up off my couch. Derived "knowledge". That's where we fail to properly distinguish the boundary, between the facts and those things we find useful (to our hidden and unstated purpose of which I may only imagine) but were not directly observed or experienced. That's where our belief system enters into the 'picture' (which itself is a mental construct).

That's also where many would do well to remain silent -- and instead simply state, "this is something that I may not speak on because I didn't see it."

Clearly if God has said that He created us and that He has a plan for us there is nothing for Science to reply with, neither for nor against. The boundary is established by God and should be respected.
 
No. Because there is abundant evidence for the evolution of mammals from reptiles. Would you like to learn about some of it?

Good grief. Barbarian. Won't you ever give up this nonsense. Abundant? Let's see the abundance.
Yep. It was probably a surprise to learn that platypuses are transitional between reptiles and mammals. Just what the theory predicted. Egg-laying, reptilian skeletal features, a cloaca, and more.

More optimism. There are stronger descriptions, of course, but I'd be banned if I used them.

Let's see some of the abundant evidence for the evolution of platypuses. Here's a starter for 3 points:
That suggests that the split between these two groups happened before this creature came into existence, more than 100 million years ago.

Assuming that there was a split, of course. And 100 mya! More la-de-da land fairy stories.
In fish. Some of them still use the swim bladder as a gas exchange organ. And we can find all sorts transitional forms of primitive lungs still in existence in living fish. Would you like to see that?

Yes. Demonstrate tracheae, bronchi and alveoli and how a fish, submerged could possibly survive underwater using these organs, and why it would develop them in the first place.
Barbarian observes:
"Tetrapods evolved from fish"
:hysterical
115380-004-CA71DDAD.jpg

That's a lion fish and a lion.

lion.jpg


See any evolutionary connection? Yes, the name is similar, but, anything else?...Hmmm

In the sense of "because genetic, anatomical, embyrologica, and fossil evidence indicates so, scientists believe that tetrapods evolved from fish."

Scientists can believe what they like, even absolute nonsense. Let's see this abundant evidence.
No cheating now - none of these silly phylogenetic diagrams, all fanciful and totally inaccurate.

And don't even mention Tiktaalik or Latimeria!! (Remember them?) That was a bunch of dufffers, wasn't it?
As surely as gravity. In fact, better than gravity. We know why evolution works, but we still don't know for sure why gravity works.

Woohoo, Barbarian! What an amazing assertion! Here are hundreds if not thousands of serious scientists saying evolution is nonsense (there's a bunch of them listed on the front page of this forum), and here are you nodding solemnly and gravely, as if there was no doubt about it.

Knowledge of the law of gravity sent men to the moon, allows calculations and predictions of the tides, and other huge truly scientific and practical predictions.

And there's Skell and Chain saying evolution is useless in the design of experiments, and of no worth whatsoever. Chain was particularly scathing, but as you say, no quotations are allowed!

How can you make such demonstrably false statements?

Science works by inferences from evidence. As you just learned, nothing is more scientific than these conclusions.

Correct science does so. Evolution is a religion, as the OP says. There's such a thing as circumstantial evidence, and it's usually completely wrong. That's all evolution has. It can't even demonstrate any reasonable number of speciations! Far less, the origin of genera, families and higher orders.

No, that's wrong. It's not a religion, because it's based on evidence and inferences from that evidence.

No it's not. Michael Ruse says so:

‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.

‘… Evolution therefore came into being as a kind of secular ideology, an explicit substitute for Christianity.’


'The creation myth of our time' is an excellent description. It's god is natural selection, its prophet is Dawkins (and Darwin), its angels are mutations, and its disciples are well, its just too sad. More's the pity.
Nope. Philosophy is not about science. Science, as you might know, is about inferences from evidence. I just showed you some examples.

You didn't SHOW any examples. You merely made some flat, unsubstantiated assertions. Not admissible as evidence.

Odd way to paint God's most beloved creation. He chose to use nature to make our physical selves. Why is that so offensive to you?

He didn't choose nature to make our physical selves. He chose to do it with His own two hands. "All these things have my hands made, saith the Lord." (Isa 66.1) I don't see any hands in the earth.
I find it very troubling that someone might think pedophilia would be OK if evolution is a fact.

Of course it would be - just like social Darwinism and the products of that. Evolution is amoral, and removes the inconvenience of God and His Laws of behaviour.

Given that you've been reminded that what is true about nature is not a guide to human conduct, I'm puzzled as to what you're saying here. From the beginning, Darwin pointed out that nature is not what we are compelled to follow.

If we are the products of nothing but blind forces, then why shouldn't nature, 'red in tooth and claw' be our guides? We're merely repeating behaviour we inherited from our ancestors. And who can blame us for doing so? After all, its in our genes, unalterable, and irrevocable.

No, evolution IS a religion. It has never been observed, it cannot be repeated and its continued existence depends largely on its power of blackmail over the scientists who wish to remain employed.

How many Americans still believe in God despite donkey's years of evolutionary brainwashing? 50%? Or is it 60%?

Says something, doesn't it?
 
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