[_ Old Earth _] Evolution

[lordkalvan]

I already addressed the ice core problem. I have no problems with older earth as long as the creation days are 7 days and each day had exactly only 1 morning and 1 evening. The first 4 days are without the sun and they are not 24 hrs, since God allowed man to use times and seasons, days and years only after 4th day. All that I am arguing regarding radiometric dating is only related to "life esp. life of animals (not even plants)".

What piece of evidence is required for which god? For the God of the Bible creating plants before Sun , evidence is clear as written in Genesis.

So basically RM and other data that shows Earth and the Universe to be billions of years old is okay, but RM and other data that shows complex life to have been present on Earth for hundreds of millions of years isn't?

 

[felix]

So basically RM and other data that shows Earth and the Universe to be billions of years old is okay, but RM and other data that shows complex life to have been present on Earth for hundreds of millions of years isn't?

No. RM data is crap and always wrong. Who told anything about millions or billions of years? I told you older which has just 4 days with each day having 1 evening and 1 morning but each day may not be 24 hrs. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[lordkalvan]

No. RM data is crap and always wrong.

But you have consistently failed to demonstrate that 'RM data is crap and always wrong'. Is Carbon 14 dating wrong when it dates artefacts of known provenance, for example?

Who told anything about millions or billions of years? I told you older which has just 4 days with each day having 1 evening and 1 morning but each day may not be 24 hrs. Nothing more and nothing less.

So how long may each non-24 hour day have been and what evidence informs your conclusion?

 

[felix]

But you have consistently failed to demonstrate that 'RM data is crap and always wrong'. Is Carbon 14 dating wrong when it dates artefacts of known provenance, for example?

So how long may each non-24 hour day have been and what evidence informs your conclusion?

(1 Corinthians 1:21) For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
(1 Corinthians 1:22) For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
(1 Corinthians 1:23) but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
(1 Corinthians 1:24) but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 1:25) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Whatever, I say to you, will make me look like a fool to you. So, it is better not to continue.

 

[lordkalvan]

(1 Corinthians 1:21) For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
(1 Corinthians 1:22) For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
(1 Corinthians 1:23) but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
(1 Corinthians 1:24) but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 1:25) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Whatever, I say to you, will make me look like a fool to you. So, it is better not to continue.

Well, as you are reduced to 'answering' questions about scientific matters relating to your various assertions by quoting Bible verse, that would seem to be your only remaining option.

 

[felix]

Well, as you are reduced to 'answering' questions about scientific matters relating to your various assertions by quoting Bible verse, that would seem to be your only remaining option.

Yes I know. Paul learnt it 2000 years back but it look me a while to learn it. Just as the Greeks saw the message of God as foolishness, nothing is changed today. It is still foolishness to the world who considers itself to be wise.
So, no matter how many posts I make, it will still be foolishness to you UNTIL the day God visits you.

 

[lordkalvan]

Yes I know. Paul learnt it 2000 years back but it look me a while to learn it. Just as the Greeks saw the message of God as foolishness, nothing is changed today. It is still foolishness to the world who considers itself to be wise.
So, no matter how many posts I make, it will still be foolishness to you UNTIL the day God visits you.

Actually, what the OP is supposed to be addressing is the fact of evolution and the strength of evolutionary theory. Your particular interpretation of God's word impacts these substantive issues only insofar as it is contraindicated by others' understanding of what God's word conveys:

'...new scientific knowledge has led us to realize that the theory of evolution is no longer a mere hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory.' (Pope John Paul II, Message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Evolution, October 23, 1996).

 

[felix]

Actually, what the OP is supposed to be addressing is the fact of evolution and the strength of evolutionary theory. Your particular interpretation of God's word impacts these substantive issues only insofar as it is contraindicated by others' understanding of what God's word conveys:

'...new scientific knowledge has led us to realize that the theory of evolution is no longer a mere hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory.' (Pope John Paul II, Message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Evolution, October 23, 1996).

(1 Corinthians 3:19) For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. ..

Which is why, true Bible believing Christians consider Evolution to be foolish. Your reply actually shows a sad situation of "secret unbelievers" and "wolves in sheep clothing" right in the middle of the flock of God.

 

[lordkalvan]

(1 Corinthians 3:19) For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. ..

Which is why, true Bible believing Christians consider Evolution to be foolish. Your reply actually shows a sad situation of "secret unbelievers" and "wolves in sheep clothing" right in the middle of the flock of God.

And you simply make my point for me. Your quotation could be applied equally to yourself by other Christians as it is applied by you to them.

 

[Arch Angle]

I already addressed the ice core problem. I have no problems with older earth as long as the creation days are 7 days and each day had exactly only 1 morning and 1 evening. The first 4 days are without the sun and they are not 24 hrs, since God allowed man to use times and seasons, days and years only after 4th day. All that I am arguing regarding radiometric dating is only related to "life esp. life of animals (not even plants)".

What piece of evidence is required for which god? For the God of the Bible creating plants before Sun , evidence is clear as written in Genesis.

I am not talking about evidence for god. I am asking you for evidence of how god did it.

Your conviction is awesome.But it does not describe how god did it. You claim that genesis is the description. That is your belief. I say God did it threw evolution and otherknown processes, that is my belief.

Now we have to check ourselves. I mean, I could be wrong.

You offered one piece of evidence. "the bible"

I offer ... #1 = The bible,

Then, as support, I offer rock strata, great coral reef, Radioisotopes, andastronomy as the start in my list.

Are you going to offer any other evidence for the claim that plants were inplace before the sun?

 

[Arch Angle]

No. RM data is crap and always wrong. Who told anything about millions or billions of years? I told you older which has just 4 days with each day having 1 evening and 1 morning but each day may not be 24 hrs. Nothing more and nothing less.

You have to pray on this Felix.

'RM data is crap and always wrong".

Please. think onthat statement. pretty please.

 

[felix]

I am asking you for evidence of how god did it.

If you want to know how God did it inspite of what He already mentioned in Scriptures, why not just ask Him?

 

[Grazer]

If you want to know how God did it inspite of what He already mentioned in Scriptures, why not just ask Him?

I did and got the answer "what do you think science is doing?" :D

 

[Arch Angle]

That's your final answer? really?

You really don't get it do you.

When you take the Eucharist, you turn it into the body and blood. Butyou are defined by god, thus god, through you, brings life to that bread. His son. It is not metaphorical, it is literal. "I and the father are one"

You bring the book to life. Locking god into the bible is the same as nailing him to a cross. You think you are controlling the world, as did the Jews.

But, I guess, by you locking him to the cross, you are freeing us. I guess I should thank you. He is risen. Again, literal, not metaphorical.

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks for those thoughts, Sparrow. I have Christian friends and relatives who, according to some Christian YECs I have encountered on various boards, are doomed to burn in the fires of Hell because they accept the evidence that supports evolution and evolutionary theory and therefore cannot be 'true' Christians. This is what I was thinking of when I wrote about 'fulminations' and 'uniquely correct interpretation'.

And I would stand solidly on their side saying, "All those who believe on the Name of Jesus," need nothing more than their trust in Him. The best defense is simply to say, "My Jesus will come for me, we will await His reply." and leave it at that. Hey, LK - with some little encouragement, my trust could be extended to include Jesus' response to my request for friends (meaning you). I have no problem "whispering into the ear" of my savior the names of my friends and loved ones. Pretty sure the same could be said for your family and loved ones. But that is for your glory, mine here is to say that I appreciate your demeanor and the way you handle yourself. Getting way personal here, but sometimes it is okay (and needful) to say what one thinks.

My apologies for the hurts that have been endured.

 

[lordkalvan]

And I would stand solidly on their side saying, "All those who believe on the Name of Jesus," need nothing more than their trust in Him. The best defense is simply to say, "My Jesus will come for me, we will await His reply." and leave it at that. Hey, LK - with some little encouragement, my trust could be extended to include Jesus' response to my request for friends (meaning you). I have no problem "whispering into the ear" of my savior the names of my friends and loved ones. Pretty sure the same could be said for your family and loved ones. But that is for your glory, mine here is to say that I appreciate your demeanor and the way you handle yourself. Getting way personal here, but sometimes it is okay (and needful) to say what one thinks.

My apologies for the hurts that have been endured.

Thanks, Sparrow. I would be proud and honoured to number you among my friends.

 

[Arch Angle]

no need to whisper sparrow.

he knows.

But I think you know that.

 

[felix]

I did and got the answer "what do you think science is doing?" :D

Science is not made up of experiment-less unconfirmed theories.. but facts based on observable and experiment-able truths.

 

[felix]

I am not sure if that is addressed to me ...

That's your final answer? really?

You really don't get it do you.

When you take the Eucharist, you turn it into the body and blood. Butyou are defined by god, thus god, through you, brings life to that bread. His son. It is not metaphorical, it is literal. "I and the father are one"

.. but I don't believe it turns into body and blood. He clearly said to do in remembrance of Him which is symbolic not literal.

You bring the book to life. Locking god into the bible is the same as nailing him to a cross. You think you are controlling the world, as did the Jews.

But, I guess, by you locking him to the cross, you are freeing us. I guess I should thank you. He is risen. Again, literal, not metaphorical.

Just for clarification, I do not worship a god who has a double tongue to speak one thing in the Bible and do something else, neither does He has the liberty to lie - for He is truth.
There is someone who has double tongue - serpent, the father of lies.

 

[Arch Angle]

you dont worship god. You worship a book.

You can't offer me anythingelse but the bible for evidence that god put the flowers before the sun. I canoffer a litany of observations that state that the sun was put there first, bygod.