Exposing Hislop's "The Two Babylons"

[thessalonian]

Chapter VI
Section II
Priests, Monks, and Nuns
If the head be corrupt, so also must be the members. If the Pope be essentially Pagan, what else can be the character of his clergy? If they derive their orders from a radically corrupted source, these orders must partake of the corruption of the source from which they flow. This might be inferred independently of any special evidence; but the evidence in regard to the Pagan character of the Pope's clergy is as complete as that in regard to the Pope himself. In whatever light the subject is viewed, this will be very apparent.

This is the section on Priests, Monks, and NUNS you keep posting links to. I think you have even cut and pasted it once or twice. Nuns are orders granted by the Pope.

Now are you telling me that you disagree with something in Hislop's work and that Nuns are not corrupt or at least Mother Teresa wasn't? Are you going to retract calling me a liar? You are accountable for the material you link to and cut and paste post.

Blessings

 

[MrVersatile48]

Chapter VI
Section II
Priests, Monks, and Nuns
If the head be corrupt, so also must be the members. If the Pope be essentially Pagan, what else can be the character of his clergy? If they derive their orders from a radically corrupted source, these orders must partake of the corruption of the source from which they flow. This might be inferred independently of any special evidence; but the evidence in regard to the Pagan character of the Pope's clergy is as complete as that in regard to the Pope himself. In whatever light the subject is viewed, this will be very apparent.

This is the section on Priests, Monks, and NUNS you keep posting links to. I think you have even cut and pasted it once or twice. Nuns are orders granted by the Pope.

The full chapter shows how much all those 'holy orders' are patterned on forbidden pagan occult

Now are you telling me that you disagree with something in Hislop's work and that Nuns are not corrupt or at least Mother Teresa wasn't?

No: as Romans 3, Genesis 3, etc clearly teach, 'ALL have sinned & fall short of the grace of God'

No One is Righteous

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.


As Isaiah 64:6 says, "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in the sight of God" - the original Hebrew means 'used sanitary towels', which sure stink in Middle East desert heat

Nobody can earn a place in Heaven: that's why everyone needs the Saviour

Are you going to retract calling me a liar?

No: you accused me of saying M Teresa's kindnesses were bad fruit, & have accused many folk falsely in many threads, as folk can see from your 'find all posts by..' in profile
You are accountable for the material you link to and cut and paste post.

Blessings

I'm not Hislop, & have encouraged folk many times to research independently, like the several searches I've posted in the past 3 pages

Must go

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 141#292141

Posted the day pope invited many Muslim envoys for a chat

Said chat will pave the way even further for Revelation 17

To save much time, this links to many threads @ RCs

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24079

& this, to many @ Islam

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ht=#291790

See also..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... c&start=90 - for RC teaching @ Islam - (@ halfway down post)

Back to link...

Ian :-D

 

[Steve]

Perhaps you can find someone to refute Charles Chiniquy as well.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/index.html

http://www.giveshare.org/babylon/confes ... index.html


Or some others who were there.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thirty.htm

The "Peace of Christ" abideth not over Rome, but rather, the wrath of God.

Chiniquy was both a drunk and a womaniser. It's historical fact.

 

[D46]

Chiniquy was both a drunk and a womaniser. It's historical fact.

That could be true. However, many popes fit that description and I surmise there are those on this forum that were once that as well...including myself. That doesn't discount the fact that he seemed intelligent enough to report on what he experienced and saw firsthand- probably on a daily basis.

 

[francisdesales]

No One is Righteous

You are taking Romans 3 completely out of context, not realizing from where Paul is quoting. Rather than going into detail on that, I ask you to consider the following verses...


"Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man" Mat 1:19

or better yet:

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachary, of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth. 6And they were both just before God, walking in all the commandments and justifications of the Lord without blame." Luke 1:5-6

Not good enough? What does Paul say elsewhere?

If any other thinketh he may have confidence in the flesh, I more, Being circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; according to the law, a Pharisee: According to zeal, persecuting the church of God; according to the justice that is in the law, conversing without blame. Phil 3:5-6

Since the Word of God cannot contradict, it appears quite obvious that St. Paul doesn't mean that no one is righteous in the entire world. He is accusing the Judaizers, just as David did to those wicked Jews who pursued HIM! Just because one is Jewish doesn't make one righteous. That is Paul's gist.

"For it is not he is a Jew, who is so outwardly; nor is that circumcision which is outwardly in the flesh: But he is a Jew, that is one inwardly; and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29.

That is the context of Paul's litany of the supposed righteous Jews that follows in chapter 3. This must be one of Paul's most misunderstood sections in all of his epistles...

Nobody can earn a place in Heaven: that's why everyone needs the Saviour

Even the Jews of the OT taught that... That is nothing new.

Regards

 

[Atonement]

That was a good responce francisdesales

We are justified because of Christ, Santified through His blood and redeemed because of His Grace..

 

[Solo]

No One is Righteous

You are taking Romans 3 completely out of context, not realizing from where Paul is quoting. Rather than going into detail on that, I ask you to consider the following verses...

Isaiah understood that his righteousness was as filthy rags along with all of the other "chosen" Israelites.

5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. Isaiah 64:5-7

"Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man" Mat 1:19

or better yet:

"There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachary, of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth. 6And they were both just before God, walking in all the commandments and justifications of the Lord without blame." Luke 1:5-6

Those who were Jewish as was Joseph and Mary, and also Zachary and Elizabeth, followed the course of the Law as instructed, and they gave animals for sacrifice to atone for their sins. Jesus said that their was no man born of a woman greater than John the Baptist, yet John the Baptist was not worthy in his own eyes. He recognized his sinful, unrighteous condition.

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: Matthew 3:11

Not good enough? What does Paul say elsewhere?

If any other thinketh he may have confidence in the flesh, I more, Being circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; according to the law, a Pharisee: According to zeal, persecuting the church of God; according to the justice that is in the law, conversing without blame. Phil 3:5-6

Paul recognizes fully that all who are without Jesus Christ are lost, and all those who are believers, including himself are sinners. Paul calls himself a "wretched" man.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25

Since the Word of God cannot contradict, it appears quite obvious that St. Paul doesn't mean that no one is righteous in the entire world. He is accusing the Judaizers, just as David did to those wicked Jews who pursued HIM! Just because one is Jewish doesn't make one righteous. That is Paul's gist.

"For it is not he is a Jew, who is so outwardly; nor is that circumcision which is outwardly in the flesh: But he is a Jew, that is one inwardly; and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29.

That is the context of Paul's litany of the supposed righteous Jews that follows in chapter 3. This must be one of Paul's most misunderstood sections in all of his epistles...

Possible, but not all misunderstand Paul's writings. Paul addresses all mankind in the book of Romans, and he specifies that no man has an excuse for the creation tells of God Almighty. He continues to show the errancy of having a false sense of righteousness, and he speaks of all having fallen short of the glory of God.

God's righteousness comes from faith when believers believe whether Jew or Gentile.

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:22-31

Nobody can earn a place in Heaven: that's why everyone needs the Saviour

Even the Jews of the OT taught that... That is nothing new.

Regards

It is new to all generation to generation, until they believe and are born again.

 

[francisdesales]

No One is Righteous

You are taking Romans 3 completely out of context, not realizing from where Paul is quoting. Rather than going into detail on that, I ask you to consider the following verses...

Isaiah understood that his righteousness was as filthy rags along with all of the other "chosen" Israelites.

No doubt. A man's righteousness WITHOUT GOD is worthless! But that doesn't mean that all men are wicked. This is not what the Bible tells us over and over again. NUMEROUS people are declared as righteous in God's eyes. But it is understood that it is God who supplies the graces to enable one to be righteous in His eyes. Even the Jews realized that everything good they did depended upon God. Thus, Isaiah recognizes that man cannot yell to the heavens and say "See, God, I am so good. I should be given entry into heaven because I obey the commandments" This is not the proper attitude to have with God, as HE provides the will and way for us to BE righteous in the first place. We do not or are not righteous BY OURSELVES.

Those who were Jewish as was Joseph and Mary, and also Zachary and Elizabeth, followed the course of the Law as instructed, and they gave animals for sacrifice to atone for their sins. Jesus said that their was no man born of a woman greater than John the Baptist, yet John the Baptist was not worthy in his own eyes. He recognized his sinful, unrighteous condition.

And the Bible declared that the above people were all righteous. John is merely recognizing that he is not righteous under his OWN POWER.

Paul recognizes fully that all who are without Jesus Christ are lost, and all those who are believers, including himself are sinners. Paul calls himself a "wretched" man.

That's right. Without God, we are "wretched". Paul compares all of his work as "manure". Not that obeying the Law was bad. But in comparison to being in Christ and RECOGNIZING His Love, all the OT stuff was like a thimble of water compared to a 55 gallon barrel of water... But again, this is merely seeing that by ourselves, we cannot be worthy of forcing God to give us salvation.

Since the Word of God cannot contradict, it appears quite obvious that St. Paul doesn't mean that no one is righteous in the entire world. He is accusing the Judaizers, just as David did to those wicked Jews who pursued HIM! Just because one is Jewish doesn't make one righteous. That is Paul's gist.

"For it is not he is a Jew, who is so outwardly; nor is that circumcision which is outwardly in the flesh: But he is a Jew, that is one inwardly; and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29.

That is the context of Paul's litany of the supposed righteous Jews that follows in chapter 3. This must be one of Paul's most misunderstood sections in all of his epistles...

Possible, but not all misunderstand Paul's writings. Paul addresses all mankind in the book of Romans, and he specifies that no man has an excuse for the creation tells of God Almighty. He continues to show the errancy of having a false sense of righteousness, and he speaks of all having fallen short of the glory of God. God's righteousness comes from faith when believers believe whether Jew or Gentile.

I can agree with that. You yourself point out that man has no excuse...

My point is that man is righteous in the eyes of God through the graces of God, not by being born a Jew. Saying that all men are wicked is to take Paul out of context in Romans 3, since the Bible clearly tells us that men CAN be righteous and follow God's ways - even in the OT. Later, Paul says this is a result of faith. Living by faith in God is how one becomes a spiritual Jew, circumcised spiritually. If you consult the Psalms that Paul is drawing from, you will see the context better. Paul is refering to the wicked. THEY are the ones who will not turn to God - not ALL men... Paul is putting the Judaizers in Rome in their place - esp. when he attacks the idea that circumcision saves in chapter 4.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

We are justified because of Christ, Santified through His blood and redeemed because of His Grace..

Well, we do agree on that, no doubt. Without Christ, I cannot do anything in which God will owe me eternal life.

Regards

 

[MrVersatile48]

Chiniquy was both a drunk and a womaniser. It's historical fact.

I only have time to acknowledge the last 5/6 posts - public PCs were down here past 2/3 days, so I'll catch up Tues, DV

I've never heard of Chiniquy, but will see the link you gave

What comes to mind is, did he repent?

The Romans 3 heading some have highlighted means that all have sinned.. & goes on to explain how salvation/restoration is available to all who do sincerely repent

E;sewhere, Thess mentioned just the names of Jimmy Swaggart & Jim Bakker

Both publicly repented for their backsliding sins & were restored

Jimmy is still a superb singer: many readers may know he's a cousin of Jerry Lee Lewis & has been rated by many as a better pianist & singer

I'm sure his website is http://www.jsm.org - he's on http://www.Gospel.TV each Sun

Back to link Christian TV..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24248

Ian :-D