Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Exquisite Counterfeit

G

Gary

Guest
Exquisite Counterfeit
by Betsy Childs

Something that is counterfeit is, by definition, intended to closely resemble what is genuine. Counterfeits are made of things that are valuable: jewels, works of art, currency. The more closely they resemble the genuine article, the bigger the threat they pose. The Department of Treasury does not concern itself with studying Monopoly money, and curators do not waste time examining poor copies of masterpieces. Those charged with protecting something precious realize that imitation is the most dangerous form of thievery.

Living as we do in a culture that has adopted pluralism as a supreme value, we would do well to take some time to think about the nature of counterfeit. Time and again I have had the same conversation in which people who reject the exclusivity of the Christian faith will say something to the effect of, "But surely you recognize that figures such as Mahatma Gandhi or the Dalai Lama are far more spiritual than most Christians. Look at their compassion! Look at their enlightenment! Do you mean to suggest that they are not truly spiritual?"

A simple "yes" is likely to shut down this conversation. But if we examine the nature of counterfeit, we may go a bit deeper. Consider that "spiritual" figures who do not bow to the lordship of Christ are practicing a kind of counterfeit spirituality. This takes into account that they may show genuine compassion. It acknowledges that they may have sacrificed their lives for others. They may be more disciplined or learned than we will ever be. But if they are not a genuine way to the Father, these virtues become even more dangerous. The beauty and mystery of false religion are the pied piper's tune leading souls to destruction.

Imagine that you go to your bank to withdraw some money. The teller gives you a stack of bills, which you discover are not genuine currency. When you protest, he or she points out the intricate beauty of the design on the bills, claiming that they must be the work of a master counterfeiter. Recognition that you are in possession of high quality counterfeit would probably not make you more inclined to accept it.

Some people use the word counterfeit interchangeably with the word hypocritical. If they say, "All religions are counterfeit" they really mean, "No religion is genuine." Yet counterfeit currency would not exist if there were not such a thing as genuine currency. Likewise, the existence of counterfeit spirituality actually testifies to the reality of a true spirituality. False messiahs exist because they are imitations of the true Messiah; they cannot gain us access to the God of the universe. Make no mistake, we are all spiritual beings. But the spirituality that God accepts is based on a relationship with Christ, and the indwelling of his Spirit.

Jesus Christ made the bold and polarizing claim that no one could come to the Father except through him. In other words, no other currency could satisfy our debt but the blood of the Lamb who was slain. He freely offers to pay our debt. There is plenty of exquisite counterfeit available, but only the genuine article can purchase eternal life.

© 2005 Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. All Rights Reserved.

-source-
 
Christ is not a religon....

He is a Spirit in the Heart!
 
are you trying to say ghandi is a bad person? or not better at all then the average person?

If that is so, then why do we have social classes?
why do we have stamps with famous ppls faces on them
why do we have movie stars
presidents
why do people think highly of someone, solely because they are a priest, reverend, monk, nun......
 
peaceforall,

Gandhi was a peace loving man that emulated Christ better than any Christian I know of!

THAT is why he is famous!
 
... he also slept with two young girls.... unlike Christ.

He also read the Bible but could not understand the cross.

He may had admired Jesus as a moral teacher but he never encountered Jesus.... or the Holy Spirit would have revealed to Gandhi who Jesus really was.

It takes an real encounter with Jesus and a born-again experience with the Holy Spirit to understand the cross. Gandhi admitted he never understood the cross.

Jesus has to explain it to you. The same why Jesus explained to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus.

Luke said:
On the Road to Emmaus

13Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16but they were kept from recognizing him.
17He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"

19"What things?" he asked.

"About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."

25 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

30When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

33They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." 35Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

Luke 24:13-35

See why Gandhi failed to understand who Jesus was? Like the New Age / yogi followers today, they pick and choose what they want to follow from Jesus' teaching. And they miss the point, like Gandhi did.

:)
 
Soma-Sight said:
peaceforall,

Gandhi was a peace loving man that emulated Christ better than any Christian I know of!

THAT is why he is famous!

REALLY
SHALOM AND LOVE IN THE NAME OF YESHUA THE SON OF GOD
 
gary, do you read from tabloid papers alot?

show me somewhere that says ghandi slept with 2 young girls.
 
From the book: Journey Through Timeless India

Speaking of Ghandi's sons and his habit of sleeping naked with young women.
http://www.timelessindia.us/chapter50.htm

Chapter Fifty
...

"When Nirmala and Ramdas fell in love, Gandhi simply decreed “No,†they were not to be married. The “Father of India’s freedom†would not allow his own sons to choose their paths in life. They must have been confused observing their own father’s sexual behavior. He did choose celibacy, but it was after having pumped out four sons and experiencing such a lusty nature that he was forever ashamed of it. It was no secret that he slept nude with young women (no sexâ€â€it was to test his celibacy) right up until the last years of his life. In addition, there were the two hour long baths when he was closed up in his private bath room with a teenage girl rubbing him down with polishing stones. Yet he expected his sons to eliminate women from their lives.
 
hmm, golly me, he pulled a michael jackson..

Apparently though, that is ok in america...

sleepign with young girls, to me, does not mean the same as "sharing a bed with"
 
BB said:
It was no secret that he slept nude with young women (no sexâ€â€it was to test his celibacy) right up until the last years of his life.
Soma-Sight said:
Even if this is true it is still not a violation of any commandment as it was a way for him to battle the lustful nature!

Like putting meat in front of a dog and training his mind!

Typical.... no thought of the impact that his ridiculous behavior had on the two young girls. They are equated to MEAT put in front of a dog! I agree with the second part of the analogy.

:o
 
Here: I took the liberty of adding emphasis that counterfeit Christian groups ignore/allegorize:

Luke wrote:
On the Road to Emmaus

13Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16but they were kept from recognizing him.
17He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"

They stood still, their faces downcast. 18One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"

19"What things?" he asked.

"About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."

25 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

30When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

33They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." 35Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

Luke 24:13-35

Thanks for the scripture, Gary :wink:
 
Thanks OC... you probably missed this as well:

"32They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Most Roman Catholics and :bday: miss that.
 
Unfortunately Betsy Childs falls short of making a persuasive argument, or, if some do indeed find this ‘counterfeit’ comparison to be an effective attack of the narrow minded against the open minded and multi-faceted spirituality that is growing so popular in the West, it then succeeds only in painting a very shallow and unappealing picture of modern Christianity.
So Childs begins by introducing a rather transparent metaphor, bringing to the reader the definition of counterfeit and immediately portraying Christianity as the jewel, or masterpiece of which so many other religions have ‘counterfeited’, or in other words, they’ve stolen the beauty of Christianity.
Now if we truly want to divulge into the plagiarizing of other religions, Childs has it right in bringing Christianity forth as the ideal example, albeit she does so for the wrong reasons…for in fact Christianity is one of the most primed examples of religious plagiarism! Few Christians are truly willing to step back and observe the facts, that Christianity has strong pagan roots. It echoes one the of the oldest stories in the world, that of a divine half-god, or “Son of God†descending into the human realm, suffering and then rising again, bringing light to the lost world. This idea can be seen such pre-Christian Christs such as Mithras or Krishna. The story of Christ’s birth is rich with pre-Christian symbology: the star in the sky, frankincense, gold and myrrh, the idea of prophecy foretelling an important child’s birth, wise men from a far coming to pay homage. The stories of the Buddha, Zoroaster and other religious figures have such elements within their own birth narratives.
Christians today still celebrate the winter and spring solstice, Christmas and Easter, Easter being the primary culprit with its connotations of ‘new life’, the cycle of death and then re-birth that the pagans themselves hailed. In addition, most Christians worship on Sunday, which comes from the pagan traditions of “Sun-Worshipâ€Â….Sun….day. Even the Eucharist comes from the Mithras cult, where the followers would eat together, consuming a ‘divine essence.†Paul’s proclaimation of Christ even closely echoed what the Romans already believed to be true about their Emperor Caesar, an inscription from 9 BCE states:

The most divine Caesar…we should consider equal to the Beginning of all things…Whereas the Providence which has regulated our whole existence…has brought our life to the climax of perfection in giving us the emperor Augustus…who being sent as a Savior, has put an end to war…the birthday of the god Augustus has been, for the whole world, the beginning of the good news (gospel). (Borg, 280, Reading the Bible Again for the First Time)


Of course, even if one was to ignore all this, there are other points of contention I have with Childs article. She mentions that in today’s society it is seen as somewhat taboo to slander the spirituality of such well known figures as Gandhi or the Dalai Lama, because these are people that have displayed deep compassion and love for their fellow human beings. Though these other spiritual leaders may be wonderful people who dedicate their lives to the servitude of others, who work for the common good and improve the lives of many, Childs holds that this is merely the glimmer or sparkle of the counterfeited jewel. In fact, Childs goes so far as to say that
these virtues are even more so dangerous
She compares the non-violence and love of Gandhi, or the humility and tranquility of the Dali Lama to nothing more than the intricacy of the ink on a fake dollar bill…as if these virtues, to love on another, to show compassion, are nothing more than the fancy, frilled, frosted flowers on the very appealing, but rather dry and tasteless birthday cake.
It becomes rather apparent that Mrs. Childs has made a very grave error, she has completely reversed the truth. She has mistaken the notions of “what one believes to be trueâ€Â, what ideas one has of the divine, what prayers one chooses to speak, what traditions one chooses to follow, which rituals one chooses to practice or which book one chooses to read to be the very heart of one’s spirituality, to be the “delicious taste of the cakeâ€Â, to be the “priceless rubyâ€Â, when, in fact, the truth is quite the opposite. These very elements: our philosophies, our traditions, our rituals, our scriptures are the “twinkle of the diamondâ€Â, are the “frostings of the cake†or the “intricate design of the dollar billâ€Â. They are not the essentials, they do not provide a substantial core for one’s spirituality, they only accent it, or enrich it. The virtues of compassion, of love, of mercy and forgiveness, of honesty and humility, of humanity…these are the cores of our faiths, upon which everything else shall be built upon. If a pastor were to run a service, to preach a sermon, to give the Eucharist and to proclaim the “love of Godâ€Â, but then to act with spite and hatred once down from the pulpit…then yes, I think we could claim that to be counterfeit. But Gandhi and the Dali Lama? Certainly not. To proclaim the exquisite decorations of our faith to be the cornerstone is shockingly un-insightful, terribly superficial and least of all an accurate portrayal of Christ’s true message.
 
AHIMSA said:
It echoes one the of the oldest stories in the world, that of a divine half-god, or “Son of God†descending into the human realm, suffering and then rising again, bringing light to the lost world. This idea can be seen such pre-Christian Christs such as Mithras or Krishna




Did Krishna Raised again, I don’t think so, did he live like a Son of God? Nope the puranas says otherwise. All the Krishna – Christ comparisons originated late in 1900s when the westerner showed interest on eastern thoughts , there is NO ancient scripture to support Krishna – Christ comparison , Most of all, Krishna is not a Historic Person, he is a myth But Jesus is well established Historical person .

Christianity does not need any outside influence to derive any of its doctrines. All the doctrines of Christianity exists in the Old Testament where we can see the prophetic teachings of Jesus as the son of God (Zech. 12:10), born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), was crucified (Psalm 22), the blood atonement (Lev. 17:11), rose from the dead (Psalm 16:10), and salvation by faith (Hab. 2:4). Also, the writers of the gospels were eyewitnesses (or directed by eyewitnesses as were Mark and Luke) who accurately represented the life of Christ. So, what they did was write what Jesus taught as well as record the events of His life, death, and resurrection. In other words, they recorded history, actual events and had no need of fabrication or borrowing.

There will undoubtedly be similarities in religious themes given the agrarian culture. Remember, an agriculturally based society, as was the people of the ancient Mediterranean area, will undoubtedly develop theological themes based upon observable events, i.e., the life, death, and seeming resurrection of life found in crops, in cattle, and in human life. It would only be natural for similar themes to unfold since they are observed in nature and since people created gods related to nature
 
She compares the non-violence and love of Gandhi, or the humility and tranquility of the Dali Lama to nothing more than the intricacy of the ink on a fake dollar bill…as if these virtues, to love on another, to show compassion, are nothing more than the fancy, frilled, frosted flowers on the very appealing, but rather dry and tasteless birthday cake.
It becomes rather apparent that Mrs. Childs has made a very grave error, she has completely reversed the truth. She has mistaken the notions of “what one believes to be trueâ€Â, what ideas one has of the divine, what prayers one chooses to speak, what traditions one chooses to follow, which rituals one chooses to practice or which book one chooses to read to be the very heart of one’s spirituality, to be the “delicious taste of the cakeâ€Â, to be the “priceless rubyâ€Â, when, in fact, the truth is quite the opposite. These very elements: our philosophies, our traditions, our rituals, our scriptures are the “twinkle of the diamondâ€Â, are the “frostings of the cake†or the “intricate design of the dollar billâ€Â. They are not the essentials, they do not provide a substantial core for one’s spirituality, they only accent it, or enrich it. The virtues of compassion, of love, of mercy and forgiveness, of honesty and humility, of humanity…these are the cores of our faiths, upon which everything else shall be built upon. If a pastor were to run a service, to preach a sermon, to give the Eucharist and to proclaim the “love of Godâ€Â, but then to act with spite and hatred once down from the pulpit…then yes, I think we could claim that to be counterfeit. But Gandhi and the Dali Lama? Certainly not. To proclaim the exquisite decorations of our faith to be the cornerstone is shockingly un-insightful, terribly superficial and least of all an accurate portrayal of Christ’s true message.

Thats some good writing!
 
Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Matthew 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The false prophets of this day try to deceive young Christians and those that are weak in the faith that there are many ways to God.

The true Jesus is despised by these false teachers.

Jesus warned us of these imposters.

Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost writes...

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

They claim to be angels of light but in reality they are ministers of evil.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
AHIMSA said:
Well its great to know that you hold dogma above compasion.

I hold truth over fiction.

You must realize that because you hate God and His word your viewpoint is skewed.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God has great compassion.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
 
Back
Top