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Bible Study Extra-marital Sex, Abortions, Living Together
- Thread starter JohnDB
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JohnDB
Member
Let's start with abortions.
Now I happen to really appreciate the Catholic's stance (up to a point) on this topic.
ALL life is a gift from God. Every last one of the heathen is a miracle in and of itself. No? Just ask a couple who can't have children.
So I have issues with frozen embryos. And abortion in general. Even in cases of rape and incest there is still a child involved and that. Child is a gift from God.
Blood once made people unclean because blood was life...and all life, even yours, was a gift and belonged to God.
Now I happen to really appreciate the Catholic's stance (up to a point) on this topic.
ALL life is a gift from God. Every last one of the heathen is a miracle in and of itself. No? Just ask a couple who can't have children.
So I have issues with frozen embryos. And abortion in general. Even in cases of rape and incest there is still a child involved and that. Child is a gift from God.
Blood once made people unclean because blood was life...and all life, even yours, was a gift and belonged to God.
Christ_empowered
Member
I think abortion is immoral (usually....), but I think it should be kept legal. Abortions have been performed ever since humans figured out ways to make it happen...and many women have died as a result of unsafe abortions. If its legal, at least the woman can walk away safe and maybe have a baby at a later date.
JohnDB
Member
This isn't the political forum.
This isn't about how to dance around morality and try not to suffer consequences from sinful, immoral, dehumanizing actions .
Abortion is murder...pure and simple. It's premeditated murder. It's blood guilt.
It's all about how people can not be inconvenienced by a less than perfect baby or an untimely pregnancy...so they murder those that can't speak for themselves.
Someone shoots a rat and gets 10 years for the atrocity. Spank your child these days and then CPS comes and charges you for assault and puts your child in foster care...but commit abortion and you are a person who is responsible and makes good decisions? That's insane...the living definition of insanity.
And people wonder why I'm doing this thread.
"Killing babies for Jesus" is the very definition of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Killing babies because you want to finish school, you want to be married first, you want a better job and etc all show that you believe you, yourself are more important than God's laws. You become your own god at that moment.
And those mothers who murdered their own babies do feel the guilt... contrary to what the feminist movement says. They carry it forever. They never forget how they murdered their own child/children.
Up to what point?
JohnDB
Member
They (if I remember correctly) have issues with any form of birth control. Including condoms, spermicides, and most birth control pills... even if inside of marriage these things are used.
But from "morning after pill" and all the way down the line they hold a perfect stance about life and it's sanctity.
(There are others that can testify much more accurately about the Catholics stance on this subject than I )
But I have found that it was a remarkable and clear stance on the subject. One without a double standard. Even though it is difficult at times like with the Terry Schivo case. They stick to their guns about the sanctity of human life and ALL forms of abortion.
Of course they are not fans of implanted embryos because of the leftover embryos. The ones discarded...they view them as life thrown in the trash and subsequently murder.
You're good on all of the above and I agree that the adherence to their doctrine is admirable.
As to the highlighted and underlined, I just want to clarify that it is not permitted even in marriage.
I think what you mean is that everyone does practice birth control.
Well, not everyone. Some use only the natural method because they agree with the reasoning found in the Pope's encyclical Humanae Vitae from 1968. It's a very beautiful document, which I have read, and really exults the human person.
Wondering
Christ_empowered
Member
I will say this...I read something I read by Pope John Paul II about what he termed "the culture of death" that was on the march, particularly in more developed, affluent nations...and he made many valid points.
Legalized contraception led to abortion led to easy breezy divorce led to gay rights led to gay marriage led to trans-everything....
...or so it seems. I'm sure the actual course of events is more nuanced and complicated than all that. Still...the RCC approach has much to recommend it. Did you know...oral hormonal contraceptives are so prevalent that they're messing up wildlife? Those hormones aren't filtered out of the water. I mean, neither is Prozac, but...
Legalized contraception led to abortion led to easy breezy divorce led to gay rights led to gay marriage led to trans-everything....
...or so it seems. I'm sure the actual course of events is more nuanced and complicated than all that. Still...the RCC approach has much to recommend it. Did you know...oral hormonal contraceptives are so prevalent that they're messing up wildlife? Those hormones aren't filtered out of the water. I mean, neither is Prozac, but...
Faith, prayer, and the Word are our weapons.
Let's start using them.
Let's start using them.
JohnDB
Member
I agree...
But so is what God has to say about it.
2 Kings 8:12 (NIV)
Deuteronomy 32:25 (NIV)
JohnDB
Member
This is the song of Moses.
It was to be learned and sung to teach the Israelites that disobedience to God's directives were the reasons for calamity in their lives.
The insanity that follows the thinking that we know better than God and that we can circumvent the pitfalls of not doing as God said is just that... insanity.
selihah
Member
1. Teachings found in the book of "Two Ways" a.k.a. "Teaching of YHVH to the Gentiles" which is basically a guide to Judiasim for Gentiles offers insight into the thoughts of ancient Israel concerning abortion.
"Thou shalt not procure abortion, nor shalt thou kill the new-born child"
2. Found this in my 1611 edition KJV, The Wisdom of Solomon 23:5 "and also those merciless murderers of children, & devourers of mans flesh, and feasts of blood."
3. In my Koren there is too the law concerning the harming of a woman with child as well as her child. "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no further harm ensue: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm (tragedy) ensue, then thou shalt give life for life...
Which according to many the understanding of this law would be to punish the man such as the husband and judges decide, provided the cause of the child's birth was without further injury. But if further tragedy ensue such as if the child or mother died then his punishment is life for life.
But please note judges are involved nobody is permitted to take the law into there own hands. Oh ya, just an FYI, the Two Ways was at first a Jewish book. Christianity got hold of it and added more you call it the "Didache"
"Thou shalt not procure abortion, nor shalt thou kill the new-born child"
2. Found this in my 1611 edition KJV, The Wisdom of Solomon 23:5 "and also those merciless murderers of children, & devourers of mans flesh, and feasts of blood."
3. In my Koren there is too the law concerning the harming of a woman with child as well as her child. "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no further harm ensue: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm (tragedy) ensue, then thou shalt give life for life...
Which according to many the understanding of this law would be to punish the man such as the husband and judges decide, provided the cause of the child's birth was without further injury. But if further tragedy ensue such as if the child or mother died then his punishment is life for life.
But please note judges are involved nobody is permitted to take the law into there own hands. Oh ya, just an FYI, the Two Ways was at first a Jewish book. Christianity got hold of it and added more you call it the "Didache"
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selihah
Member
Now as for living together their is nothing wrong with that. From the Hebraic perspective if a man and woman made the decision to live together, dedicated, and have had sexual intercourse they are consider to behaving as a husband and wife. My great grandparents were husband and wife but they never had a gathering or celebration because neither could afford it. And neither did they need anyones permission to do so.
What is not a kosher relationship are one stands and promiscuous behavior. There is in Torah a commandment governing that too! When I read it and finally understood it. The first thing that came to mind it was very reminiscent of what is called a 'shotgun wedding'. lol
What is not a kosher relationship are one stands and promiscuous behavior. There is in Torah a commandment governing that too! When I read it and finally understood it. The first thing that came to mind it was very reminiscent of what is called a 'shotgun wedding'. lol
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I grew up in a single parent home for, well, part of my life. My biological father left.
As to what causes it...seems complex. My mom says in our case she should have know better than to marry my father. Apparently there were plenty of warning signs. So...what does that amount to, essentially? And how common a cause is that in all?
As to what causes it...seems complex. My mom says in our case she should have know better than to marry my father. Apparently there were plenty of warning signs. So...what does that amount to, essentially? And how common a cause is that in all?
Malachi
Member
The common denominators are (1) separation from God, (2) applying human wisdom to spiritual problems, (3) choosing to sin rather than be righteous.
Malachi
Member
The real world would like at these issues as simply moral issues. The Bible would look at all issues as spiritual issues. Most societies would frown on these practices, even though they are not Christian.