Faith alone questions

[st_worm2]

So you don’t have any requirements for salvation in the new covenant?

Hello again Don, sure, Protestants (I assume that's who you are ultimately referring to by "you") have requirements for salvation. Here is what we are taught.

John 3​

16 God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.​

​

John 5​

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.​

​

John 20​

31 These have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name. ​

​

Romans 10​

9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;​

10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

We have MANY more teachings like the ones above (which I will happily provide you with if you'd like me to, but this seems like a good place to start and stop .. for now anyway ).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - actually, I think that there is one last thing that needs to be said about salvation for now (which is always sola gratia et sola fide), that it is accompanied by/~always~ results in a number of wonderful things in our lives (good works, the desire please God rather than ourselves, the ability to live godly lives as new creatures in Christ, are all certainly among them). To be clear, all of the wonderful things that "accompany" salvation .. e.g. Hebrews 6:9 are the FRUIT or RESULT of our salvation, NEVER the cause of it (and that from the moment of our salvation/justification unto Glory).

For more about what Protestants believe, consider again the Calvin quote in my signature line below. And for what it's worth, Luther taught the exact same thing.

Ephesians 2​

8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

.

 

[donadams]

Hello again Don, sure, Protestants (I assume that's who you are ultimately referring to by "you") have requirements for salvation. Here is what we are taught.

John 3​

16 God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.​

​

John 5​

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.​

​

John 20​

31 These have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name. ​

​

Romans 10​

9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;​

10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

We have MANY more teachings like the ones above (which I will happily provide you with if you'd like me to, but this seems like a good place to start and stop .. for now anyway ).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - actually, I think that there is one last thing that needs to be said about salvation for now (which is always sola gratia et sola fide), that it is accompanied by/~always~ results in a number of wonderful things in our lives (good works, the desire please God rather than ourselves, the ability to live godly lives as new creatures in Christ, are all certainly among them). To be clear, all of the wonderful things that "accompany" salvation .. e.g. Hebrews 6:9 are the FRUIT or RESULT of our salvation, NEVER the cause of it (and that from the moment of our salvation/justification unto Glory).

For more about what Protestants believe, consider again the Calvin quote in my signature line below. And for what it's worth, Luther taught the exact same thing.

Ephesians 2​

8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

.

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation it’s already past tense accomplished when it was written

Are you saved?
Are you saved the first moment you believed?
Thanks

 

[st_worm2]

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation it’s already past tense accomplished when it was written

Are you saved?
Are you saved the first moment you believed?
Thanks

Hello again Don, actually, σῴζω (the verb translated as "saved" in Ephesians 2:8) is in the Greek "perfect" tense (not the past tense). The perfect tense speaks of a completed action (often times a "just now completed" action) that has present & ongoing consequences (the emphasis of which always being on the consequences or resulting state of affairs).

Ephesians 2:8 was originally written to (saved) Christian congregants of the Gentile church in Ephesus, not to those who were yet to be saved (which is true of the VAST majority of the Bible, that it is written to/for believers), thus the use of the perfect tense.

You also said that v8 concerns "redemption not salvation". Why do you say that , especially when the Apostle clearly wrote, "By grace you have been ~saved~" not "redeemed"? (Paul had just used the noun form of λυτρόω, the word that we typically translate as "redeem" or "redemption", in the first chapter of the same Epistle, just FYI, so he was certainly familiar with it).

Here again is the Biblical definition of redeem/redemption.

The word redeem means “to buy out.” The term was used specifically in reference to the purchase of a slave’s freedom. The application of this term to Christ’s death on the cross is quite telling. If we are “redeemed,” then our prior condition was one of slavery. God has purchased our freedom, and we are no longer in bondage to sin or to the Old Testament law.​

​

The benefits of redemption include eternal life (Revelation 5:9-10), forgiveness of sins (Ephesians 1:7), righteousness (Romans 5:17), freedom from the law’s curse (Galatians 3:13), adoption into God’s family (Galatians 4:5), deliverance from sin’s bondage (Titus 2:14; 1 Peter 1:14-18), peace with God (Colossians 1:18-20), and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). To be redeemed, then, is to be forgiven, holy, justified, free, adopted, and reconciled. See also Psalm 130:7-8; Luke 2:38; and Acts 20:28. ~https://www.gotquestions.org/redemption.html (the complete article and video can be found at that link).​

Lastly, you asked, "are you saved/are you saved from the moment that you first believed?". My answer is "yes". In fact, if someone is not saved from the moment that they first believe then they are not saved, according to the Bible anyway (as our salvation is not based upon anything that we do, but on all of the things that He did for us, and that from the moment that we first believe unto Glory). For instance,

John 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and ~does not come~ into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

The goal of salvation is eternal life, and v24 tells us plainly that we come into possession of both from the moment that we first believe/come to saving faith.

God bless you!!

--David

Ephesians 2​

8 By grace you have been ~~saved~ through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

​

 

[donadams]

Hello again Don, actually, σῴζω (the verb translated as "saved" in Ephesians 2:8) is in the Greek "perfect" tense (not the past tense). The perfect tense speaks of a completed action (often times a "just now completed" action) that has present & ongoing consequences (the emphasis of which always being on the consequences or resulting state of affairs).

Ephesians 2:8 was originally written to (saved) Christian congregants of the Gentile church in Ephesus, not to those who were yet to be saved (which is true of the VAST majority of the Bible, that it is written to/for believers), thus the use of the perfect tense.

You also said that v8 concerns "redemption not salvation". Why do you say that , especially when the Apostle clearly wrote, "By grace you have been ~saved~" not "redeemed"? (Paul had just used the noun form of λυτρόω, the word that we typically translate as "redeem" or "redemption", in the first chapter of the same Epistle, just FYI, so he was certainly familiar with it).

Here again is the Biblical definition of redeem/redemption.

The word redeem means “to buy out.” The term was used specifically in reference to the purchase of a slave’s freedom. The application of this term to Christ’s death on the cross is quite telling. If we are “redeemed,” then our prior condition was one of slavery. God has purchased our freedom, and we are no longer in bondage to sin or to the Old Testament law.​

​

The benefits of redemption include eternal life (Revelation 5:9-10), forgiveness of sins (Ephesians 1:7), righteousness (Romans 5:17), freedom from the law’s curse (Galatians 3:13), adoption into God’s family (Galatians 4:5), deliverance from sin’s bondage (Titus 2:14; 1 Peter 1:14-18), peace with God (Colossians 1:18-20), and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). To be redeemed, then, is to be forgiven, holy, justified, free, adopted, and reconciled. See also Psalm 130:7-8; Luke 2:38; and Acts 20:28. ~https://www.gotquestions.org/redemption.html (the complete article and video can be found at that link).​

Lastly, you asked, "are you saved/are you saved from the moment that you first believed?". My answer is "yes". In fact, if someone is not saved from the moment that they first believe then they are not saved, according to the Bible anyway (as our salvation is not based upon anything that we do, but on all of the things that He did for us, and that from the moment that we first believe unto Glory). For instance,



The goal of salvation is eternal life, and v24 tells us plainly that we come into possession of both from the moment that we first believe/come to saving faith.

God bless you!!

--David

Ephesians 2​

8 By grace you have been ~~saved~ through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;​

9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for/unto good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.​

​

If you think saved refers to salvation please explain Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13 rom 13:11

Or
“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!


We must also suffer!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[st_worm2]

If you think saved refers to salvation please explain Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13 rom 13:11

Hello again Don, I'm not sure what else "saved" could refer to, other than to "salvation", but to answer your question directly, those who come to true, saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ due to God causing them to be regenerated, justified (declared just) & saved, those who He makes "His workmanship" as wholly "new creatures" in Christ, ARE the ones (the ONLY ones) who endure to the end in their faith, (because our heavenly Abba makes sure that we do, by preserving us, His children by adoption, in our faith, so that we CAN and WILL persevere :amen). If He did not, we would not!! For instance (in very small part),

Philippians 1​

6 I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.​

​

1 Thessalonians 5​

23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He will bring it to pass.​

​

Hebrews 7​

25 He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.​

​

1 John 5​

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.​

​

Jude ​

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from falling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,​

25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. :amen​

This is enough for now. I'll continue my reply to your last post in my next post.

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - there is an "already/not yet" sense to MANY things in the Bible, like the Kingdom of God, for instance. I believe that this can also be said to be true (in a very real sense) concerning salvation. IOW, while it is Biblically true that we are saved from the moment that we first believe (justification), there is also an ongoing sense (once we have been saved/justified) that we are being saved, more and more, throughout our lives here/being made more and more like Christ (which Protestants refer to as "sanctification").

Finally, it is also true Biblically true to say that we will be saved at the end of our lives/in the age to come (glorification). As the saying goes about this then, there is a sense "that we are saved, that we are being saved, and that we will be saved", and this is a saying that both Protestants AND Catholics share and admit to.

 

[st_worm2]

One last thing (as a point of interest), I believe that once we are saved, we NEVER stop learning and growing, IOW, that we never stop growing in our knowledge and understanding of God and/or in becoming more and more Christlike, and that throughout the eternity that is before us (not just on this side of the grave).

I also believe that there will be no end to the growing, personal relationship (that we first established with God here) throughout the balance of eternity. How could there be, all things considered? (e.g. John 17:3).

As the prophet said,

Isaiah 9​

6 Unto us a Child is born,​

Unto us a Son is given;​

And the government will be upon His shoulder.​

And His name will be called​

Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,​

Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.​

7 Of the ~increase~ of His government and of peace​

~There will be no end~,​

Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,​

To order it and establish it with judgment and justice​

From that time forward, even forever.​

The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

--David
p.s. - one last question (that just came to mind) about the topic of "already/not yet" salvation, if you believe there is no "already" sense to God's salvation, does that mean that you disagree with the Roman Catholic teaching concerning baptized infants, a teaching that tells us that they have indeed been, following their water baptism, freed from sin and saved (such that they would go immediately into Heaven if they died to be with God forevermore)? Thanks!

I ask because I've had a number of Roman Catholics tell me that this is what Catholicism teaches, and I believe that it is also said to be true in the CCC (I'll see if I can locate it and get back to you).
.

 

[Highway54]

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!


We must also suffer!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Did Jesus work? Do his disciples? A fruit of identification don't you think Don?

 

[donadams]

Did Jesus work? Do his disciples? A fruit of identification don't you think Don?

What do you mean by work?

 

[Highway54]

What do you mean by work?

Christians were given an assignment Don, Jesus said: (Matthew 28:19, 20) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. . . .That is our work.

Jesus worked: (John 17:4) 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.

We are to obey his teachings, as well as God's: (John 14:15) 15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. . .(1 John 5:3) . . .For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments. . .

That is what I mean Don. Of course there are many rules and regulations we Christians must follow. One example is meeting together with fellow Christians Heb 10:24,25; Isa 2:2,3 included in that is the beating of our instruments of war into implements of peace verse 4.

 

[donadams]

Christians were given an assignment Don, Jesus said: (Matthew 28:19, 20) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. . . .That is our work.

Jesus worked: (John 17:4) 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.

We are to obey his teachings, as well as God's: (John 14:15) 15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments. . .(1 John 5:3) . . .For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments. . .

That is what I mean Don. Of course there are many rules and regulations we Christians must follow. One example is meeting together with fellow Christians Heb 10:24,25; Isa 2:2,3 included in that is the beating of our instruments of war into implements of peace verse 4.

Jesus does not send the people to teach and sanctify all nations, he sent apostles Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21

But since you think you are sent please do tell me what he commanded in Matt 28:20
Thanks

 

[st_worm2]

Jesus does not send the people to teach and sanctify all nations, he sent apostles Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21

But since you think you are sent please do tell me what he commanded in Matt 28:20
Thanks

Hello Don & Highway54, I hope you two don't mind if I jump in here quickly!?

The Apostles are in Heaven (I believe that they've been there for quite some time now, in fact ). Of course, while they lived (the 11 + 1 following the Ascension, that is) they trained and sent MANY others to lead those, even in the remotest parts of the world, to faith. We (all), according to the Lord Jesus in His, Sermon on the Mount, are designated by Him as the "salt" and the "light" of this world .. e.g. Matthew 5:13-16 (see this passage at the bottom).

The RCC also agrees (with the Bible/with Protestants) that ALL believers are called to be God's witnesses, as this small example from the CCC/Catechism of the Catholic Church will demonstrate.

​

856 The missionary task implies a respectful dialogue with those who do not yet accept the Gospel. Believers can profit from this dialogue by learning to appreciate better “those elements of truth and grace which are found among peoples, and which are, as it were, a secret presence of God.”360 They proclaim the Good News to those who do not know it, in order to consolidate, complete, and raise up the truth and the goodness that God has distributed among men and nations, and to purify them from error and evil “for the glory of God, the confusion of the demon, and the happiness of man.” (839; 843)[1]​

​

900 Since, like all the faithful, lay Christians are entrusted by God with the apostolate by virtue of their Baptism and Confirmation, they have ~the right and duty~, individually or grouped in associations, ~to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth~. This duty is the more pressing when it is only through them that men can hear the Gospel and know Christ. Their activity in ecclesial communities is so necessary that, for the most part, the apostolate of the pastors cannot be fully effective without it[2]​

​

904 “Christ … fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy … but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word” (785; 92) To teach in order to lead others to faith ~is the task of every preacher AND of each believer~.[3]​

905 Lay people also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, “that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life.” For lay people, “this evangelization … acquires a specific property and peculiar efficacy because it is accomplished in the ordinary circumstances of the world.” (2044; 2472)​

​

This witness of life, however, is not the sole element in the apostolate; the true apostle is on the lookout for occasions of announcing Christ by word, either to unbelievers … or to the faithful.[4]​

​

---

[1] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., pp. 226–227). United States Catholic Conference.​

[2] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 238). United States Catholic Conference.​

[3] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 239). United States Catholic Conference.​

[4] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 239). United States Catholic Conference.​

​

There is more concerning lay witnessing/evangelism in the CCC (and elsewhere, of course), but I'll stop here for now.

God bless you both!!

--David
p.s. - below is a VERY small portion of what the Lord had to say to and/or about the laity (lay believers, that is). Take note of His instructions to His disciples concerning lay missionaries as well (see Matthew 9 below). The work of reaching the world for Christ was never in the hands of the Apostles alone. How could it have been?

​

Matthew 5​

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.​

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;​

15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.​

16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.​

​

Matthew 9​

37 Jesus said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.​

38 "Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.”​

​

 

[Randy]

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!


We must also suffer!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

No one comes to the Son apart from the "Father" and no one comes to the Father except by the "Son".

So not only is it grace through faith but it is not of ourselves. And the blessing is based off a "promise" not works of the law. As in heirs according to the "promise".

Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

How God the Father chose to forgive sin.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

“Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests

If anyone is truly in Christ it is of the Father. "Gods Grace"
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[Highway54]

Jesus does not send the people to teach and sanctify all nations, he sent apostles Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21

But since you think you are sent please do tell me what he commanded in Matt 28:20
Thanks

Who really is the faithful slave Don? Mat 24:45-47.

I am really kind of taken back by your statement Don, do you really believe that God lost all His teachers when the apostles died? What is your take on the part of making disciples sir? Did they not make disciples, who made disciples, who made disciples etc, so that in the last days we have them still going out with the message Isa 2:2,3 working on fulfilling the words of Mat 24:14? If no one is spreading that gospel to the nations, how will that ever get fulfilled?

No sir, I submit you are in error, and that God does have people who are taking that good news to the ends of the earth, and that we are on the verge of completing that. Soon the end will come, because virtually everyone on earth has access to God's message. Everyone you know has been reached most likely many times by us sir.

 

[donadams]

Hello Don & Highway54, I hope you two don't mind if I jump in here quickly!?

The Apostles are in Heaven (I believe that they've been there for quite some time now, in fact ). Of course, while they lived (the 11 + 1 following the Ascension, that is) they trained and sent MANY others to lead those, even in the remotest parts of the world, to faith. We (all), according to the Lord Jesus in His, Sermon on the Mount, are designated by Him as the "salt" and the "light" of this world .. e.g. Matthew 5:13-16 (see this passage at the bottom).

The RCC also agrees (with the Bible/with Protestants) that ALL believers are called to be God's witnesses, as this small example from the CCC/Catechism of the Catholic Church will demonstrate.

​

856 The missionary task implies a respectful dialogue with those who do not yet accept the Gospel. Believers can profit from this dialogue by learning to appreciate better “those elements of truth and grace which are found among peoples, and which are, as it were, a secret presence of God.”360 They proclaim the Good News to those who do not know it, in order to consolidate, complete, and raise up the truth and the goodness that God has distributed among men and nations, and to purify them from error and evil “for the glory of God, the confusion of the demon, and the happiness of man.” (839; 843)[1]​

​

900 Since, like all the faithful, lay Christians are entrusted by God with the apostolate by virtue of their Baptism and Confirmation, they have ~the right and duty~, individually or grouped in associations, ~to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth~. This duty is the more pressing when it is only through them that men can hear the Gospel and know Christ. Their activity in ecclesial communities is so necessary that, for the most part, the apostolate of the pastors cannot be fully effective without it[2]​

​

904 “Christ … fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy … but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word” (785; 92) To teach in order to lead others to faith ~is the task of every preacher AND of each believer~.[3]​

905 Lay people also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, “that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life.” For lay people, “this evangelization … acquires a specific property and peculiar efficacy because it is accomplished in the ordinary circumstances of the world.” (2044; 2472)​

​

This witness of life, however, is not the sole element in the apostolate; the true apostle is on the lookout for occasions of announcing Christ by word, either to unbelievers … or to the faithful.[4]​

​

---

[1] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., pp. 226–227). United States Catholic Conference.​

[2] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 238). United States Catholic Conference.​

[3] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 239). United States Catholic Conference.​

[4] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 239). United States Catholic Conference.​

​

There is more concerning lay witnessing/evangelism in the CCC (and elsewhere, of course), but I'll stop here for now.

God bless you both!!

--David
p.s. - below is a VERY small portion of what the Lord had to say to and/or about the laity (lay believers, that is). Take note of His instructions to His disciples concerning lay missionaries as well (see Matthew 9 below). The work of reaching the world for Christ was never in the hands of the Apostles alone. How could it have been?

​

Matthew 5​

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.​

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;​

15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.​

16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.​

​

Matthew 9​

37 Jesus said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.​

38 "Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.”​

​

Thanks
The apostles continue to the end with the same mission power and authority as Christ Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8

Ccc? Aka the catechism of the council of Vatican 2 no thanks

 

[donadams]

No one comes to the Son apart from the "Father" and no one comes to the Father except by the "Son".

So not only is it grace through faith but it is not of ourselves. And the blessing is based off a "promise" not works of the law. As in heirs according to the "promise".

Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

How God the Father chose to forgive sin.
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

“Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests

If anyone is truly in Christ it is of the Father. "Gods Grace"
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

What happened to the sola “Christ Alone”?

 

[donadams]

Who really is the faithful slave Don? Mat 24:45-47.

I am really kind of taken back by your statement Don, do you really believe that God lost all His teachers when the apostles died? What is your take on the part of making disciples sir? Did they not make disciples, who made disciples, who made disciples etc, so that in the last days we have them still going out with the message Isa 2:2,3 working on fulfilling the words of Mat 24:14? If no one is spreading that gospel to the nations, how will that ever get fulfilled?

No sir, I submit you are in error, and that God does have people who are taking that good news to the ends of the earth, and that we are on the verge of completing that. Soon the end will come, because virtually everyone on earth has access to God's message. Everyone you know has been reached most likely many times by us sir.

Jn 2:21 the apostles have the same authority as Christ
Christ made apostles
The apostles made apostles acts 1:26 those apostles made more apostles till Christ returns
Thanks

 

[st_worm2]

Ccc? Aka the catechism of the council of Vatican 2 no thanks

Hello again Don, I'm confused about the comment that you just made (about the CCC). I believe that it was commissioned and published under the direction of JP II (if memory serves), so it is certainly an official publication of the RCC. I have Catholic family members, friends and acquaintances, and they quote or point me to the Catechism regularly to make points about the RC faith when we are discussing it (well, my Catholic family members/friends who are serious about RC theology do anyway ).

Are you saying that it is wrong for them to do so, that what the CCC teaches is actually false teaching/NOT what the RCC actually teaches? The CCC is not an original document, of course, but a concise summary of many the RCC's official dogmas, doctrines and/or other official church teachings (which are all nicely referenced for us in the CCC), so do you consider all of the RC official source documents that were used to create it false teachings as well?

Again, I am quite confused and would appreciate a bit of clarification from you. I hope that you do not mind me asking you these two questions (if you do, for whatever reason, then please don't answer them), 1. are you are a Roman Catholic in good standing with the church at this time, yes/no?, and 2. if your answer is "no", what church are you a member of?

Thanks

--David

 

[Randy]

What happened to the sola “Christ Alone”?

I don't believe I stated that as you state but clearly the Father is involved.
John 6
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[st_worm2]

The apostles continue to the end with the same mission power and authority as Christ Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8

"The Apostles continue to the end." What They are among the living, of course, but they are living in Heaven with the Lord at this time, not here on Earth, so the idea that they are continuing the Great Commission themselves (if that's what you're actually saying) is not possible

Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus' "Great Commission" continues to be carried out in this world w/o them PTL, by His saints (by all true disciples/believers, that is) thanks to the indwelling and ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit in all of our lives. As the Apostle Peter also made clear to all of us who have, by grace through faith, become His adoptive children,

1 Peter 2​

9 You are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may ~proclaim~ the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.​

--David
p.s. - the Great Commission was first given to the 11 + 1, but it was hardly given to them alone to carry out. We know that St. Thomas Aquinas certainly understood this (from what he wrote, see the example below) as did MANY, MANY others, of course, including the RCC itself (as we have recently seen).

"To teach in order to lead others to faith is the task
of every preacher AND of each believer"
St. Thomas Aquinas
​

 

[Highway54]

Hello Don & Highway54, I hope you two don't mind if I jump in here quickly!?

The Apostles are in Heaven (I believe that they've been there for quite some time now, in fact ). Of course, while they lived (the 11 + 1 following the Ascension, that is) they trained and sent MANY others to lead those, even in the remotest parts of the world, to faith. We (all), according to the Lord Jesus in His, Sermon on the Mount, are designated by Him as the "salt" and the "light" of this world .. e.g. Matthew 5:13-16 (see this passage at the bottom).

The RCC also agrees (with the Bible/with Protestants) that ALL believers are called to be God's witnesses, as this small example from the CCC/Catechism of the Catholic Church will demonstrate.

​

856 The missionary task implies a respectful dialogue with those who do not yet accept the Gospel. Believers can profit from this dialogue by learning to appreciate better “those elements of truth and grace which are found among peoples, and which are, as it were, a secret presence of God.”360 They proclaim the Good News to those who do not know it, in order to consolidate, complete, and raise up the truth and the goodness that God has distributed among men and nations, and to purify them from error and evil “for the glory of God, the confusion of the demon, and the happiness of man.” (839; 843)[1]​

​

900 Since, like all the faithful, lay Christians are entrusted by God with the apostolate by virtue of their Baptism and Confirmation, they have ~the right and duty~, individually or grouped in associations, ~to work so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all men throughout the earth~. This duty is the more pressing when it is only through them that men can hear the Gospel and know Christ. Their activity in ecclesial communities is so necessary that, for the most part, the apostolate of the pastors cannot be fully effective without it[2]​

​

904 “Christ … fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy … but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word” (785; 92) To teach in order to lead others to faith ~is the task of every preacher AND of each believer~.[3]​

905 Lay people also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, “that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life.” For lay people, “this evangelization … acquires a specific property and peculiar efficacy because it is accomplished in the ordinary circumstances of the world.” (2044; 2472)​

​

This witness of life, however, is not the sole element in the apostolate; the true apostle is on the lookout for occasions of announcing Christ by word, either to unbelievers … or to the faithful.[4]​

​

---

[1] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., pp. 226–227). United States Catholic Conference.​

[2] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 238). United States Catholic Conference.​

[3] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 239). United States Catholic Conference.​

[4] Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., p. 239). United States Catholic Conference.​

​

There is more concerning lay witnessing/evangelism in the CCC (and elsewhere, of course), but I'll stop here for now.

God bless you both!!

--David
p.s. - below is a VERY small portion of what the Lord had to say to and/or about the laity (lay believers, that is). Take note of His instructions to His disciples concerning lay missionaries as well (see Matthew 9 below). The work of reaching the world for Christ was never in the hands of the Apostles alone. How could it have been?

​

Matthew 5​

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.​

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;​

15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.​

16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.​

​

Matthew 9​

37 Jesus said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.​

38 "Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.”​

​

Hi sir, yes we too believe the apostles are in heaven for a while now. We believe the first resurrection happened shortly after Jesus was crowned King of God's Kingdom.