Jethro Bodine
Member
The main issue is we reject the Catholic's claim to apostolic succession, not the gift and office of apostle (though some Christians do say that office has ended).
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Faith alone questions
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
While it is true that they (the 11 + 1) did not reject the RCC doctrine of apostolic succession, neither did they teach it (IOW, there was nothing for them to reject).
Paul was set aside at birth or as he stated from the womb. God's choice in regard to Judas before he did good or bad as in by grace. According to prophecy another was to take a place of leadership in regard to Judas who according to prophecy was the one Jesus lost in order that the scriptures would be fulfilled. Thats 1 to replace the 1 who abandoned his office. They did not put into place apostolic succession. The teachings of Christ and the Apostles were written down for future generations that serve as that authority. We read and preach and teach from that scripture and nothing has changed in regard to the gospel message.
Since the 12 will sit on 12 thrones of judgment that office extended beyond the life of the body.
I knew about of courseHello Don, your not knowing about Mathias in the previous Chapter of Acts didn't make sense to me from the get-go, so I'm back trying to figure out what you were actually trying to convey, and this is where my mind has been wandering since then ;)
Is it your belief that the 11, in their choosing of the godly/faithful Mathias (who, just like the 11, knew the Lord Jesus personally and walked with Him during His ministry years on Earth) to fill the vacated position of the unfaithful traitor, Judas, somehow establishes the basis for (and the Biblical proof of) the RCC's doctrine of apostolic succession?
Considering the extent of all that is said in those verses and passages (in both Acts 1, as well as in the prophetic words from Psalms 69:25 and 109:8) such a conclusion can hardly be reached and justified.
So, perhaps I am still on the wrong track here. If not (and the above is actually what you mean), then please tell me/us what I am missing and/or where the Bible teaches us that, "the line of apostles must continue till Christ returns because only Peter and the apostles have jurisdictional authority".
Thanks
--David
Acts 2:14 is impossible without apostolic succession
Peter and the eleven
Authority of apostles to continue to make and send apostles Jn 20:21
Apostles continue till the end Matt 28:19 I am with you (his apostles) to the end of the world
Acts 1:8 witnesses to the ends of the earth
Requires apostolic succession
Thanks
I believe this was spoken to those who were still in the life of the body.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Those who Overcome the world?
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
Isn't having eternal life salvation?
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Then why keep saying alone?
Sole, sola???
The question is why do you keep asking? I did NOT receive the Spirit when I was baptized as a infant. I stated such before this thread started. I did receive the Spirit when I asked the Lord as one who believes in Him for that gift. So in that experience and context it would be Christ alone but the Father is involved. For how could I believe in my heart with certainty without proof, signs or miracles apart from the Holy Spirit? (outward)
The disciples believed in Jesus and when Jesus spoke to the of the gift of God He told them they already knew that Spirit for it was with them and on that day Jesus spoke of it would be in them.
All that is stated has to do with "God" not man. If one believes in their heart in Jesus and calls on Him in prayer that faith to do so was not on their own. It was from the Father.
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you repudiate it and consider yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us,
‘I have appointed You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’”
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
You the man!
The Bible don’t say that
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
The Apostles are all dead.
Not all the disciples were Apostles.
This was a special title reserved for the 12.
And Paul was an honorary Apostle.
They were referred to as Apostles after Jesus died to distinguish them from disciples.
As to succession.
If you've studied church history, I don't know how you could not agree.
Jethro Bodine
Member
No.
At least those of us in the non-Catholic denomination don't have to believe what every teacher tells us. We have freedom of conscience and discernment to decide who to listen to and who not to listen to. Catholics are not allowed to do that. It's a formula for disaster as we can see by where the Catholic church has ended up.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Don't want to derail...
Why don't you believe in succession?
That's all I want to know.
According to your doctrine maybe but scripture
Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 13:11
Faith and salvation not same
Justification “righteousness” not same as salvation
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
Thanks
No I don’t as referring to those in this forum
Thanks
Matt 28:18 acts 1:8 apostolic succession
Jethro Bodine
Member
The believing justified person is a saved person, right now, according to John 5:24. You need to stop ignoring that verse of scripture. Even in regard to the future element of salvation, that of actually passing safely through the coming wrath of God, Jesus said emphatically the person who believes now will not come into judgement then. It's not a 'maybe you, will maybe you won't' thing as the Catholics erroneously teach. They mislead people with that false teaching, holding them in bondage to their works salvation beliefs and dependence on an otherwise useless and unneeded, bloated hierarchy of so-called apostles and leaders.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
What does it mean when someone is justified?