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Faith alone questions

Faith and salvation not same
But anyway, to this point, they aren't the same thing, but what the Catholic church fails to know and teach is that the justified person is a saved person. Saved from the coming wrath of God? No, because that hasn't happened yet. But saved in that they are now indeed not going to suffer that wrath and are saved children of God, right now. Not later on condition of properly performing various rites and rituals and doing good deeds. That is the works justification gospel condemned in scripture.
 
What does it mean when someone is justified?
Made righteous.
Made righteous with the righteousness that comes from God, not you, whereby which you are qualified to enter the kingdom of God, given as a free gift of his grace which you receive by faith, not by being obedient to do righteous rituals and good deeds.

And this is not a righteousness by which you then do good works and rituals to make yourself satisfactorily righteous in behavior over time and thereby acceptable to God as the Catholic church teaches. That is a deceitfully disguised works gospel.

This is a righteousness the presence of which all by itself makes you a child of God and allows you entry into the kingdom of God,.
 
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I believe this was spoken to those who were still in the life of the body.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Those who Overcome the world?
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
Isn't having eternal life salvation?
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Eternal life of grace, the life of God in us by faith and baptism
Eternal life is grace Not salvation
Thanks
 
Matt 28:18 acts 1:8 apostolic succession
Even if I witnessed tongues of flames come upon another I would still ask Jesus about it. I didn't think you held to a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since the Apostles who Jesus appointed were clothed with power how does that speak of succession? Paul's shadow came on the sick and they were healed. He was bitten by a poisonous viper that had no effect on Him.

The credentials of a true Apostle of the Lord.

Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

The Son of Man
When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. 19Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

20Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

How does that compare to your Pope in the Vatican?
 
Eternal life of grace, the life of God in us by faith and baptism
Eternal life is grace Not salvation
Thanks
Eternal life as in never dies as in saved forever.

Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?’ 27 She said to him, ‘Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.’
 
The question is why do you keep asking? I did NOT receive the Spirit when I was baptized as a infant. I stated such before this thread started. I did receive the Spirit when I asked the Lord as one who believes in Him for that gift. So in that experience and context it would be Christ alone but the Father is involved. For how could I believe in my heart with certainty without proof, signs or miracles apart from the Holy Spirit? (outward)
The disciples believed in Jesus and when Jesus spoke to the of the gift of God He told them they already knew that Spirit for it was with them and on that day Jesus spoke of it would be in them.
All that is stated has to do with "God" not man. If one believes in their heart in Jesus and calls on Him in prayer that faith to do so was not on their own. It was from the Father.


“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you repudiate it and consider yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have appointed You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’”
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).
 
Even if I witnessed tongues of flames come upon another I would still ask Jesus about it. I didn't think you held to a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since the Apostles who Jesus appointed were clothed with power how does that speak of succession? Paul's shadow came on the sick and they were healed. He was bitten by a poisonous viper that had no effect on Him.

The credentials of a true Apostle of the Lord.

Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

The Son of Man
When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. 19Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

20Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

How does that compare to your Pope in the Vatican?
PLEASE DISCUSS THE TOPIC AND DO NOT DEMEAN ANOTHER MEMBER'S DENOMINATION.

PLEASE FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH THE TERMS OF SERVICE.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD. USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.

THANKS
 
Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).
I only stated and truthfully I didn't receive the Spirit when I was baptized as a infant. I consider myself baptized.
 
I only stated and truthfully I didn't receive the Spirit when I was baptized as a infant. I consider myself baptized.
Randy
Infant baptism is legitimate and you can consider yourself baptized.

The part about the Holy Spirit is like this:
You receive the Holy Spirit, but if you don't make use of Him as an adult, it's as if He were sleeping and waiting for you to wake up.

If this were not so, it would mean that every Catholic is saved because they are all baptized.

Well,not really all.
Some parents are not baptizing their baby.
 
Randy
Infant baptism is legitimate and you can consider yourself baptized.

The part about the Holy Spirit is like this:
You receive the Holy Spirit, but if you don't make use of Him as an adult, it's as if He were sleeping and waiting for you to wake up.

If this were not so, it would mean that every Catholic is saved because they are all baptized.

Well,not really all.
Some parents are not baptizing their baby.
I had no inner witness nor ever felt the presence of the Spirit until after I asked the Lord for that gift. Lutherans do baptize infants. I not sure how one makes use of the Spirit of God within us. I have however believed in and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory goes. In the NT it was stated to those who believed "repent" and be baptized not something one can do as a infant. I do believe clergy have authority from above to baptize so if they baptize anyone they are baptized regardless of those who disagree. If I ever travel to Israel I have in mind to get baptized in the Jordan and I will have the upper hand in whose baptism is more proper. :)
 
No.

At least those of us in the non-Catholic denomination don't have to believe what every teacher tells us. We have freedom of conscience and discernment to decide who to listen to and who not to listen to. Catholics are not allowed to do that. It's a formula for disaster as we can see by where the Catholic church has ended up.
Not when Christ is the teacher
 
I had no inner witness nor ever felt the presence of the Spirit until after I asked the Lord for that gift. Lutherans do baptize infants. I not sure how one makes use of the Spirit of God within us. I have however believed in and prayed to Jesus as far back as my memory goes. In the NT it was stated to those who believed "repent" and be baptized not something one can do as a infant. I do believe clergy have authority from above to baptize so if they baptize anyone they are baptized regardless of those who disagree. If I ever travel to Israel I have in mind to get baptized in the Jordan and I will have the upper hand in whose baptism is more proper. :)
They're all proper Randy.
God does the baptizing, not man or a denomination.

I'd love to go to Israel one day.
 
The believing justified person is a saved person, right now, according to John 5:24. You need to stop ignoring that verse of scripture. Even in regard to the future element of salvation, that of actually passing safely through the coming wrath of God, Jesus said emphatically the person who believes now will not come into judgement then. It's not a 'maybe you, will maybe you won't' thing as the Catholics erroneously teach. They mislead people with that false teaching, holding them in bondage to their works salvation beliefs and dependence on an otherwise useless and unneeded, bloated hierarchy of so-called apostles and leaders.

John 5:24

King James Version

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Where does it say saved?
Life refers to grace, the divine life of God in us eph 2:1 &5 quickend or brought to life by faith and baptism
Thanks
 
Sorry

Find here

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
 
But anyway, to this point, they aren't the same thing, but what the Catholic church fails to know and teach is that the justified person is a saved person. Saved from the coming wrath of God? No, because that hasn't happened yet. But saved in that they are now indeed not going to suffer that wrath and are saved children of God, right now. Not later on condition of properly performing various rites and rituals and doing good deeds. That is the works justification gospel condemned in scripture.
Jn 15:1-5
Thanks
 
Sorry

Find here

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
This sounds right to me.

I wonder why Jethro Bodine Doesn't agree.
 
Even if I witnessed tongues of flames come upon another I would still ask Jesus about it. I didn't think you held to a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since the Apostles who Jesus appointed were clothed with power how does that speak of succession? Paul's shadow came on the sick and they were healed. He was bitten by a poisonous viper that had no effect on Him.

The credentials of a true Apostle of the Lord.

Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

The Son of Man
When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. 19Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

20Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

How does that compare to your Pope in the Vatican?
Matt 28:19:20 Christ to hs apostles “I am with you to the end” so the apostles must continue to the end
Acts 1:8 my witnesses to the ends of their earth
Apostolic succession is required

Christ is king
The new covenant church his kingdom
The apostles / bishops who govern the kingdom are princes
Thanks
 
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