I don't read that as only to Apostles. Jesus is with all those who belong to Him now and to each generation even up the end of the age. He also has prepared a place for us. The gospel message hasn't changed and the testimony was complete. Apostles are not required. Overseers appointed for each church should faithfully read and teach from the NT and held to that standard.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Faith alone questions
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
If you read John 17 you will find Jesus prayed for those who believed in Him and those who would come to believe in Him through their message not the whole world.
While it may be offered to all through the generations the forgiveness of sins must be received by faith. I don't see any redemption from iniquity for those who can't enter the kingdom of God because of unbelief.
Jesus to Paul
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Jethro Bodine
Member
I in no way believe that Christ is the teacher of the Catholic church.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I do not believe the leadership of the Catholic church is in any way in the spiritual lineage of the 12 Apostles. I really don't.
Jethro Bodine
Member
This proves nothing about what we're talking about.
Do you must believe in him right?
Jethro Bodine, Randy, wondering, donadams, et al, I've been looking into the topic of apostolic succession again (thanks to this thread 
), and I came across a short article about it yesterday (at www.gotquestions.org). The article is so well-written that I thought that I'd come back here and post an excerpt from it for you. Here it is.
I have several comments that I'd like to make about the above, but I will have to do so later when I return (Dv).
--David
), and I came across a short article about it yesterday (at www.gotquestions.org). The article is so well-written that I thought that I'd come back here and post an excerpt from it for you. Here it is. Nowhere in the New Testament are any of the twelve apostles recorded as passing on their apostolic authority to successors. Nowhere do any of the apostles predict that they will pass on their apostolic authority. No, Jesus ordained the apostles to build the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2).
In short, apostolic succession is not biblical. The concept of apostolic succession is never found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is that the true church will teach what the Scriptures teach and will compare all doctrines and practices to Scripture in order to determine what is true and right.
The Roman Catholic Church claims that a lack of ongoing apostolic authority results in doctrinal confusion and chaos. It is an unfortunate truth (that the apostles acknowledged) that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1). Admittedly, the lack of “supreme authority” among non-Catholic churches results in many different interpretations of the Bible. However, these differences in interpretation are not the result of Scripture being unclear. Rather, they are the result of even non-Catholic Christians carrying on the Catholic tradition of interpreting Scripture in accordance with their own traditions. If Scripture is studied in its entirety and in its proper context, the truth can be easily determined. Doctrinal differences and denominational conflicts are a result of some Christians refusing to agree with what Scripture says – not a result of there being no “supreme authority” to interpret Scripture.
Alignment with scriptural teaching, not apostolic succession, is the determining factor of the trueness of a church. What is mentioned in Scripture is the idea that the Word of God was to be the guide that the church was to follow (Acts 20:32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the Scriptures that teachings are to be compared to (Acts 17:10-12). Apostolic authority was passed on through the writings of the apostles, not through apostolic succession.
I have several comments that I'd like to make about the above, but I will have to do so later when I return (Dv).
--David
Jethro Bodine
Member
Everyone who believes is presently saved:
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. 1 Corinthians 15:2
Look right here in one of your favorite verses:
5He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birtha and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5
'Saved' is in the Aorist tense. That means it's a completed action. Not one yet to be completed. There's no way to refute this.
Stop seeking to bend scripture to defend Catholic doctrine and start seeking the truth in scripture and see if the Catholic church measures up. You will see that they don't.
I agree. The Apostles understood from the scriptures in regard to Judas as written, "let another take his place of leadership" and sought only that replacement. Meanwhile God had already set Paul aside from the womb. The 12 were to sit on 12 thrones of judgment judging the 12 tribes of Israel. A office that extends beyond the life of the body. Only one abandoned that office. The Apostles sought to fill that opening. They selected 2 by their own criteria. Then prayed and immediately cast lots. Had they waited on an answer to their prayers they would have known about God's choice that was already made beforehand. "Paul" Even so they didn't introduce a continuous selection of apostles nor taught such practice.Jethro Bodine, Randy, wondering, donadams, et al, I've been looking into the topic of apostolic succession again (thanks to this thread
Nowhere in the New Testament are any of the twelve apostles recorded as passing on their apostolic authority to successors. Nowhere do any of the apostles predict that they will pass on their apostolic authority. No, Jesus ordained the apostles to build the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2).In short, apostolic succession is not biblical. The concept of apostolic succession is never found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is that the true church will teach what the Scriptures teach and will compare all doctrines and practices to Scripture in order to determine what is true and right. The Roman Catholic Church claims that a lack of ongoing apostolic authority results in doctrinal confusion and chaos. It is an unfortunate truth (that the apostles acknowledged) that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1). Admittedly, the lack of “supreme authority” among non-Catholic churches results in many different interpretations of the Bible. However, these differences in interpretation are not the result of Scripture being unclear. Rather, they are the result of even non-Catholic Christians carrying on the Catholic tradition of interpreting Scripture in accordance with their own traditions. If Scripture is studied in its entirety and in its proper context, the truth can be easily determined. Doctrinal differences and denominational conflicts are a result of some Christians refusing to agree with what Scripture says – not a result of there being no “supreme authority” to interpret Scripture.Alignment with scriptural teaching, not apostolic succession, is the determining factor of the trueness of a church. What is mentioned in Scripture is the idea that the Word of God was to be the guide that the church was to follow (Acts 20:32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the Scriptures that teachings are to be compared to (Acts 17:10-12). Apostolic authority was passed on through the writings of the apostles, not through apostolic succession.
I have several comments that I'd like to make about the above, but I will have to do so later when I return (Dv).
--David
Yes. It's not baptism alone either is it? Babies can't be saved in that manner. I'm not against baptism. I don't think Jesus is compelled/forced to give the Spirit at baptism neither do I believe He can't give the Spirit apart from baptism. "Repent, faith, pledging a clear conscience to God, all also go along with the believer with baptism. Jesus is looking at the heart of those being baptized. He knows those who love and obey Him. Those who really are His disciples.
I'm not sure why you would ask that after all we have discussed. The answer is yes
In John 17 Jesus prayed for His disciples who believed with certainty in Him and those who would come to believe in Him through their message. He specfically stated He was not praying for the whole world. Apart from such faith no one should be baptized.
As Phillip who was sent by God to the eunuch as that eunuch was chosen by God to see the righteous one.
When asked if He could be baptized.
And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
Apart from such faith in baptism one only gets wet.
Yes you did if you were baptized in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Sorry DavidJethro Bodine, Randy, wondering, donadams, et al, I've been looking into the topic of apostolic succession again (thanks to this thread
Nowhere in the New Testament are any of the twelve apostles recorded as passing on their apostolic authority to successors. Nowhere do any of the apostles predict that they will pass on their apostolic authority. No, Jesus ordained the apostles to build the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2).In short, apostolic succession is not biblical. The concept of apostolic succession is never found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is that the true church will teach what the Scriptures teach and will compare all doctrines and practices to Scripture in order to determine what is true and right. The Roman Catholic Church claims that a lack of ongoing apostolic authority results in doctrinal confusion and chaos. It is an unfortunate truth (that the apostles acknowledged) that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1). Admittedly, the lack of “supreme authority” among non-Catholic churches results in many different interpretations of the Bible. However, these differences in interpretation are not the result of Scripture being unclear. Rather, they are the result of even non-Catholic Christians carrying on the Catholic tradition of interpreting Scripture in accordance with their own traditions. If Scripture is studied in its entirety and in its proper context, the truth can be easily determined. Doctrinal differences and denominational conflicts are a result of some Christians refusing to agree with what Scripture says – not a result of there being no “supreme authority” to interpret Scripture.Alignment with scriptural teaching, not apostolic succession, is the determining factor of the trueness of a church. What is mentioned in Scripture is the idea that the Word of God was to be the guide that the church was to follow (Acts 20:32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the Scriptures that teachings are to be compared to (Acts 17:10-12). Apostolic authority was passed on through the writings of the apostles, not through apostolic succession.
I have several comments that I'd like to make about the above, but I will have to do so later when I return (Dv).
--David
But gotquestions is not the place to go for church history.
Try to do a little study on church history.
Will write more on this. Maybe a thread would be good.
I think I know that better than you. No I didn't. We are not saved by baptism alone.
Overseers are an apostle
Acts 20
Paul is speaking about himself and he is an apostle
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Thanks
It is His church he is Christ the king
Christ and His church are one: Acts 9:4 mystical communion: eph 5:32
To accept the church and her doctrine (sacred deposit of faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3) is to accept Christ who established the church and reveled the truth.
To reject the church or her doctrine “sacred deposit of faith” is to reject Christ who established the church and reveled the truth. (Including God)
It would be a strange anarchy to accept the king, but reject the kingdom and truth that the king established and revealed, but they prove their infidelity and disobedience to the king by rejecting His kingdom and doctrine.
But then again they only say they love and obey the king of glory!
Jethro Bodine
Member
We know the Catholic church is not Christ's church because of it's works justification theology. Among other things.
Biblical principles:
God sent Christ:
Acceptance of Christ is acceptance of God.
Jn 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Christ sent the apostles:
Acceptance of the apostles is acceptance of Christ.
The apostles send more apostles:
Acceptance of these apostles is acceptance of the apostles who sent them, and Christ, and God!
Acts 1:26
Matt 10:40 He that receiveth you (the apostles) receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Lk 10:16
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Obedience to the apostles is obedience to Christ!
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine…
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Apostles have the same mission, power, and authority as Christ!
Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Three fold office of apostle:
Teach
Sanctify
Govern the church
Apostles exist till Christ returns in glory:
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
(Apostolic succession continues to the end of the world and to the end of the earth)
Love of Christ is love of God:
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
God sent Christ:
Acceptance of Christ is acceptance of God.
Jn 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Christ sent the apostles:
Acceptance of the apostles is acceptance of Christ.
The apostles send more apostles:
Acceptance of these apostles is acceptance of the apostles who sent them, and Christ, and God!
Acts 1:26
Matt 10:40 He that receiveth you (the apostles) receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Lk 10:16
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Obedience to the apostles is obedience to Christ!
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine…
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Apostles have the same mission, power, and authority as Christ!
Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Three fold office of apostle:
Teach
Sanctify
Govern the church
Apostles exist till Christ returns in glory:
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
(Apostolic succession continues to the end of the world and to the end of the earth)
Love of Christ is love of God:
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
I hold them in high esteem. Pillars of the faith. I take their witness as scripture. Other than that, they are in heaven wearing their crown of righteousness. What was your point?