"Faith" . . . Being held to a standard that is alien to god. Why?

[glorydaz]

Faith is not alien to God.

In the Bible, we have our faith in Christ...true, but we also have the faith of God and the faith of Jesus Christ. Just because some don't believe doesn't mean the faith of God is without effect.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Faith isn't alien to Jesus. His has greater faith than man ever will, as He was faithful unto death. He died that we might have life. Whosoever will.... may come...not everyone will.

“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we HAVE BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST, that we might be justified by THE FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.†(Gal. 2:15 16)

“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST might be given to THEM THAT BELIEVE.†(Gal. 3:22)

 

[Deavonreye]

No, you are unable to understand. You are just spouting gibberish, now.

Spouting gibberish? Nice counter argument.

Stop while you still seem intelligent. No one can rise above the addiction to sin without the blood of Jesus...which is what God has done for us.

People do it all the time. The moment a person stops doing something destructive on their own, they have acheived what god has no ability to experience. Not a negative thing, . . . he just wouldn't have a frame of reference. . . yet punishes people without this frame of reference.

 

[Deavonreye]

Re: Maybe time to ask him to -

"God hasn't "told me" anything."

Then I'd suggest that you ask Him to Reveal Himself to YOU in terms that YOU can understand. He promised to give wisdom in abundance to WHOMEVER asks for it singlemindedly.

"And it isn't a TRUE decision until I actually KNOW both sides. Anyone who says different is simply wrong."

True - but it sounds as though you're only making excuses for unbelief. If You actually DO WANT TO KNOW - then GO to the one who CAN "Turn your light on" for you -[/QUOTE]

This isn't the thread for this, but I asked for this "revealing that I could understand" many MANY times in my past. . . .and still actually do, on occasion. Nothing but silence.

 

[Deavonreye]

peter talked about long suffering of god that he doesnt want us to perish

so if your kid was a murder would just that day continue to talk him and not see that he is punished if you had to turn him in?

think about.
one of God's kids kills another and what is God gonna do?

he has to avenge one and comfort him the other?

wait he did that, and the if the offender repents an innocent man took his punishment.

either way the sentence was served and the offender walks because he repented.

sadly that an innocent man paid the price but that is what God had to do.

This isn't true justice, especially to the one who's family member was killed. If someone killed a member of my family, and at the trial, even if the murderer was sorry for what he did, YET someone said that THEY would take the murderer's place in prison and for the murderer to be set free, . . . . I would QUICKLY call for a mistrial, or appeal it as fast as I could. The "stand in" cannot be justice.

This isn't the thread for this topic, though.

 

[Deavonreye]

Faith is not alien to God.

In the Bible, we have our faith in Christ...true, but we also have the faith of God and the faith of Jesus Christ. Just because some don't believe doesn't mean the faith of God is without effect.

Faith isn't alien to Jesus. His has greater faith than man ever will, as He was faithful unto death. He died that we might have life. Whosoever will.... may come...not everyone will.

This isn't the "faith" I'm talking about, glorydaz. It isn't about "being faithful". I'm talking about requiring someone to be bound only to "faith in what cannot be seen, heard, felt, tasted, smelled" in order to make a huge decision in their life. God is no where to be seen, and we are in the dark about him. THIS is the type of "faith" I'm talking about. It is foreign to god, yet is expected of us [that which he could never experience on his own], and we are punished for not being able to do what god is not capable of.

 

[WIP]

I would like to have a discussion on "faith", specifically . . . how can god hold us to a standard [believing by faith in what is unprovable] when he could never experience such a state?

"Faith" is an illusion. What it means to one person or belief system, . . . it means something else to another. It is supposed to be so powerful, but "faith" in something wrong is one of the biggest follies of mankind, and there have been many of them. The thing is, a person can have "faith" in something, and have it SO strongly, that it causes them an inability to see the actual truth, and they change their life to this fiction. Sometimes to the harm of others. One need only see the aftermath of a suicide bomber with a strong "faith" in Allah.

"Faith is fickle". As for christianity, why hold it as THE standard? If you are the deity of a said religion, why make it as the absolute of acts. . . . when that same deity would be completely unable to know what it is like? Unable to put itself in our shoes, with all the thousands of other "faith beliefs" jockying for position? Especially when this same "faith" is found in equally depraved humans as those without it.

Satan does a great job of confusing us, doesn't he?

 

[Alabaster]

This isn't the "faith" I'm talking about, glorydaz. It isn't about "being faithful". I'm talking about requiring someone to be bound only to "faith in what cannot be seen, heard, felt, tasted, smelled" in order to make a huge decision in their life. God is no where to be seen, and we are in the dark about him. THIS is the type of "faith" I'm talking about. It is foreign to god, yet is expected of us [that which he could never experience on his own], and we are punished for not being able to do what god is not capable of.

Faith is a foreign concept to anyone whose god is himself.

Excuse me while I don't have faith in you. ;)

 

[Deavonreye]

Faith is a foreign concept to anyone whose god is himself.

Excuse me while I don't have faith in you. ;)

Attempts at clever twists of words do not address the point at hand.

BTW, I am hardly "my god", . . . . so please keep your faulty perceptions to yourself.

What this subject is talking about . . . is that "faith in a religion [or relationship, for those who don't understand that it's still "a religion"]" is cannot be shown to any person outside of "belief" in that which has no evidence. You can't show someone that your belief is anymore real than another's religion. It is just a "belief that you are right". As it states in scripture, "without FAITH, it is impossible to please him".

Show me evidence for god, . . . . specifically that Jesus died on a cross for the sins of the world, . . . and show me with certanty.

 

[Alabaster]

Those who presume to judge God have placed themselves on a monumental throne. It is simply idolatry of oneself.

 

[Alabaster]

Attempts at clever twists of words do not address the point at hand.

BTW, I am hardly "my god", . . . . so please keep your faulty perceptions to yourself.

What this subject is talking about . . . is that "faith in a religion [or relationship, for those who don't understand that it's still "a religion"]" is cannot be shown to any person outside of "belief" in that which has no evidence. You can't show someone that your belief is anymore real than another's religion. It is just a "belief that you are right". As it states in scripture, "without FAITH, it is impossible to please him".

Show me evidence for god, . . . . specifically that Jesus died on a cross for the sins of the world, . . . and show me with certanty.

The evidence for God is in the revelation only He gives. When we have His revelation, we can firmly say that we know that we know that we know.

Until you have experienced the revelation of truth from God Himself, He will always appear foolish and so will His people.

We receive Him by faith only, and not by logical deduction.


1 Corinthians 2:9-16 NLT
That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard,
and no mind has imagined
what God has prepared
for those who love him.”
10 But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. 11 No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. 12 And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us.
13 When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. 14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. 15 Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. 16 For,
“Who can know the Lord’s thoughts?
Who knows enough to teach him?”
But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
also:

1 Corinthians 3:19 NLT
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise
in the snare of their own cleverness.”

 

[farouk]

Alabaster:

Hebrews 11:

"By faith we believe that the worlds were framed".

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster:

Hebrews 11:

"By faith we believe that the worlds were framed".

That is for sure! Easy peasy!

 

[Deavonreye]

Those who presume to judge God have placed themselves on a monumental throne. It is simply idolatry of oneself.

Oh please. I am no idol or god. I'm disgusting and no one would idolize me or make me as a god, especially not me. Stick to the subject, please.

 

[Alabaster]

Oh please. I am no idol or god. I'm disgusting and no one would idolize me or make me as a god, especially not me. Stick to the subject, please.

It isn't an arguable thing. We all serve something or someone. We were created that way. Some people's religion is their understanding and their antagonism toward the truth.

Why would you say you were disgusting? God has great compassion on you because He loves you beyond what you can even hope to comprehend.

 

[Deavonreye]

The evidence for God is in the revelation only He gives. When we have His revelation, we can firmly say that we know that we know that we know.

Until you have experienced the revelation of truth from God Himself, He will always appear foolish and so will His people.

We receive Him by faith only, and not by logical deduction.


1 Corinthians 2:9-16 NLT
That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined...

This "revelation of truth" isn't the same as real truth that can be evidential. It is still a matter of faith. Show me your evidence for god! You can't. You can quote from the bible all you like, but you still haven't seen him, but must rely on this "faith". THAT'S the point here. And it is unknowable to god what WE must "come to believe".

 

[Deavonreye]

It isn't an arguable thing. We all serve something or someone. We were created that way. Some people's religion is their understanding and their antagonism toward the truth.

Why would you say you were disgusting? God has great compassion on you because He loves you beyond what you can even hope to comprehend.

I really don't want to get off topic here.

 

[Alabaster]

This "revelation of truth" isn't the same as real truth that can be evidential. It is still a matter of faith. Show me your evidence for god! You can't. You can quote from the bible all you like, but you still haven't seen him, but must rely on this "faith". THAT'S the point here. And it is unknowable to god what WE must "come to believe".

My evidence is a changed life. My evidence is that God speaks and I see what He has told me come to pass.

Nothing is unknowable to God---that is just a wayward thought you are having.

 

[Deavonreye]

My evidence is a changed life. My evidence is that God speaks and I see what He has told me come to pass.

Nothing is unknowable to God---that is just a wayward thought you are having.

But you don't hear an audible voice. It is inner, . . . and many people can say that that inner voice is a myriad of things. It is still "faith that cannot be truly evidential". A "changed life" is a product of the individual alone, . . . .and to them, I congradulate!

I still stand by the OP of this thread. We are bound to that which god could never understand. I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. And again, this isn't a negative. It would be the nature of him. But to damn us through what he can't know? That would be the negative.

Good night, all.

 

[Alabaster]

But you don't hear an audible voice. It is inner, . . . and many people can say that that inner voice is a myriad of things. It is still "faith that cannot be truly evidential". A "changed life" is a product of the individual alone, . . . .and to them, I congradulate!

God has spoken to me in an audible voice!

The changed life that only God can perform in us is not something that people can do. Congratulations to people is out of order. All praise goes to God the Father.

I still stand by the OP of this thread. We are bound to that which god could never understand. I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. And again, this isn't a negative. It would be the nature of him. But to damn us through what he can't know? That would be the negative.

Good night, all.

God understands all things. You don't know what you are saying, and what you are saying is indeed negative and it is once again placing yourself above God in judgment of Him, and for that there will be an accounting one day.

Psalm 94:10 NKJV
He who instructs the nations, shall He not correct,
He who teaches man knowledge?

Jesus as God:
John 16:30 NLT
Now we understand that you know everything, and there’s no need to question you. From this we believe that you came from God.”

1 John 3:20 NLT
Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything.

 

[glorydaz]

This isn't the "faith" I'm talking about, glorydaz. It isn't about "being faithful". I'm talking about requiring someone to be bound only to "faith in what cannot be seen, heard, felt, tasted, smelled" in order to make a huge decision in their life. God is no where to be seen, and we are in the dark about him. THIS is the type of "faith" I'm talking about. It is foreign to god, yet is expected of us [that which he could never experience on his own], and we are punished for not being able to do what god is not capable of.

Of course God is capable of faith. God came in the flesh and dwelt among us...Jesus, remember? He took on human nature and was tested and tried more than you or I ever will be. He had faith that He would be raised from the dead, having taken all your sins and mine instead of us having to pay the price. All you need to do is accept that free gift and you'll experience all that you deny is possible.

You say God is no where to be seen...you know better than that. Why are you posting on a Christian site? I say it's because you want someone to convince you that God exists, but you know that already, or you wouldn't be here.