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Faith comes by Hearing, but Obedience comes by Fear!

O

ozell

Member
If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4).

Baptism is one of those words.

In order to be baptized, certain events must take place:

You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you.

Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law.

You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues).

These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation.

You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord.

Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Lets read something Paul said in Romans, that fly right over people heads....

Rom. 3:23-25

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.
 
So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus, not Titles, but Jesus name.

And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death.

But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose.

That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins.

And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis.

Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again.

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

Lets read these full verses....

Lets go into Hebrews 10

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins.

26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Now do we understand what’s being said here?


If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you.


27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).
 
Thank you for your very good post. May I ask, do you baptize in the name of Jesus only?
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Please, lets not turn this into a Oneness discussion.

Lets stay on topic please. :yes
 
Faith comes by Hearing, but Obedience comes by Fear!
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This isn't what the Bible states:

John 14:15 (NIV)
If you love me, you will obey what I command.

1 John 4:18 (NIV)
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
 
Obedience comes out of love, not fear. For me, if fear comes from anywhere it comes from myself. I fear me for I know that I am incapable of gaining eternal life in my own right. It is ONLY by the love and grace of God that I have any hope at all. Left to my own devices I am doomed for destruction and THAT is where my fear is fostered.

"O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 8:24-25 KJV)
 
Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law.

You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues).
Click to expand...

Yours is the same "gospel" the Judaizers of Paul's time preached. It's as wrong now as it was then.

Gentiles have never been under the Law and - according to Paul's letter to the Galatians - were never intended to keep it. Jews had to keep it until it was completely fulfilled. That happened in 70 AD, when God took "vengeance for the covenant" for the last time, according to Leviticus 26.

There are a number of other issues with your posts but this was the most glaring.
 
Stormcrow said:
Yours is the same "gospel" the Judaizers of Paul's time preached. It's as wrong now as it was then.

Gentiles have never been under the Law and - according to Paul's letter to the Galatians - were never intended to keep it. Jews had to keep it until it was completely fulfilled. That happened in 70 AD, when God took "vengeance for the covenant" for the last time, according to Leviticus 26.

There are a number of other issues with your posts but this was the most glaring.
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actually the jews were freed at the cross.

otherwise they would as new messainic jews attend the temple and be under rabbinical authority.
 
Stormcrow said:
Gentiles have never been under the Law...
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Stormcrow,

The below passage says that Gentiles show the work of the law written on their hearts. To say we were not under the law, I think is incorrect. Take those who are unbelievers today, why are they in a state of condemnation? The reason people are in the condemned state is because their sins are still on their account. They are not forgiven because they have not believed in Jesus Christ. They are still under the curse of the law.

- Davies
Romans 2:14-16

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ,



 
Stormcrow said:
Gentiles have never been under the Law...
Click to expand...

Stormcrow,

The below passage says that Gentiles show the work of the law written on their hearts. To say we were not under the law, I think is incorrect. Take those who are unbelievers today, why are they in a state of condemnation? The reason people are in the condemned state is because their sins are still on their account. They are not forgiven because they have not believed in Jesus Christ. They are still under the curse of the law.


Romans 2:14-16

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ,

We all know the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but it is the kindness of God that brings a man to repentance.

Romans 2:4

New King James Version (NKJV)

4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

- Davies
 
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jasoncran said:
actually the jews were freed at the cross.
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Freed from sin and its wages, as are we all.

But if everything was accomplished at the cross, why did Christ tell the disciples this:

{17} "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. {18} "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. {19} "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19 (NASB)

Everything having to do with man's redemption from the fall was accomplished at the cross. But the kingdom still belonged to apostate Israel until "all [was] accomplished." Vengeance for the covenant (please read Leviticus 26 to understand that phrase) didn't happen until that generation was ready to go.

See also the parable of the landowner's son in Matthew 21, and the 8 woes pronounced against Israel's rulers (the chief priests) in Matthew 23.

otherwise they would as new messainic jews attend the temple and be under rabbinical authority.
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Book of Acts:

{16} For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost. Acts 20:16 (NASB)

Paul was going there to celebrate the feast of Pentecost in the Temple.

{20} And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; {21} and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. {22} "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. {23} "Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; {24} take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. {25} "But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication." {26} Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them. Acts 21:20-26 (NASB)

Paul kept the Law among those of the Law, so that he could be - as he once wrote - "all things to all men."
 
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Sromcrow,

Let me say first, I'll give up this conversation, because I think we have different points of view and we're not willing to give it up, nor should we if we can't do it in faith. I went back through this thread, and thought this was in reference to the Scripture I shared.

Stormcrow said:
So Gentiles have the Law, according to you?
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Roman 2:14
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

You could say we adopt the law when we do the things written in the law. When we do them, it shows the law has been written on our hearts, even though the Gentiles weren't given the law. Perhaps this is why when two people do the same thing like eating meat, one could be sinning, because they are inclined to eat vegetarian and think eating meat is sinful. They can't eat meat with faith, so they would be sinning if they did.

I think this is important to the title of the thread, because we fear God in the beginning, fear is the beginning of wisdom, but God gave the law because of His grace just the same as He sent Jesus to perform all its requirements for us. That fact should motivate us to be obedient, not out of fear, but love.

It's hard to let go the arguement though, when it is something very critical. But I can if this is something that is so disagreeable to you or anyone else for that matter.

- Davies
 
Now, Jesus said in Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Lets take a look at what Paul said in Acts 10:35 - But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Also in Acts 13:16 - Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

Where is the fear of God today?

Where?

1 Peter 2:17 - Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king
 
theLords said:
This isn't what the Bible states:

John 14:15 (NIV)
If you love me, you will obey what I command.

1 John 4:18 (NIV)
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
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the same John you quote is the same John who wrote

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Paul said

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Peter said

1 Peter 2:17
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

solomon said

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

there is a fear that Jesus servants must have toward him.
 
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

should we not fear the one who can destroy the body and soul in Hell?
 
WIP said:
Obedience comes out of love, not fear. For me, if fear comes from anywhere it comes from myself. I fear me for I know that I am incapable of gaining eternal life in my own right. It is ONLY by the love and grace of God that I have any hope at all. Left to my own devices I am doomed for destruction and THAT is where my fear is fostered.

"O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 8:24-25 KJV)
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what is the bible definiton of Love?

Love is this according to the bible is keeping the commandments


Romans 13:8-11

8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
we are told to fear God by the prophets and apostles

Paul said this


Romans 13
7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

God said fear him
 
Stormcrow said:
Yours is the same "gospel" the Judaizers of Paul's time preached. It's as wrong now as it was then.

Gentiles have never been under the Law and - according to Paul's letter to the Galatians - were never intended to keep it. Jews had to keep it until it was completely fulfilled. That happened in 70 AD, when God took "vengeance for the covenant" for the last time, according to Leviticus 26.

There are a number of other issues with your posts but this was the most glaring.
Click to expand...

where is the word of Judaizer in the bible?

is Jesus a judahizer?

Jesus said when He walked the earth

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

in New Jerusalem it is written

Revelation 22

1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:


14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


why are these judahizer in God's kingdom?
 
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