Bible Study Faith Is A Simple Test: To Find Out If You Are Teachable?

[JAG ..]

Agreed.
What is truth? How is my bias distorting truth? How do I determine truth? Where am I wrong? Yahda, yada.




Agreed, though not to all humans but to His chosen humans. Seems we're on therapeutics till we die.



Agreed. Glorification seems the ultimate solution. These are but therapeutics IMO.


I classify myself a a libertarian. I vote republican and hold my nose also. I wrote in TED CRUZ the first time Trump won, but voted for Trump the 2nd time. Trump as a person sucks, liked his policies. I couldn't stand McCain. Romney turned out to be less than I hoped as did Bush II. Being in Texas, I can waste a presidential vote on whoever.




I just complain to myself ... but in a more thoughtful moment I realize God is in charge of all things (though many disagree)



I look at it as all predetermined. God creates what we call problems and then addresses them as He seems fit.

FF,
Thanks for those points and for taking the time to make them.
Maybe we can chat some more here and there.


God bless.

JAG

PS
Here is an idea to ponder with regard to political parties being
the solution to human problems or to ponder just for the sake
of what might be true:
That old culture warrior Patrick J. Buchanan once said:
"The Republican Party and the Democratic Party are the
two wings of the same bird of prey."

_____________

In another vein:

Thought For Today:

"Strength and honor"__Maximus

[]

 

[Fastfredy0]

That old culture warrior Patrick J. Buchanan once said:
"The Republican Party and the Democratic Party are the
two wings of the same bird of prey."

Pat Buchanan ... been a long time since I heard his name.
Some truth to be found in most general, subjective statements.
Makes me think the thought that both parties use the peoples money to bribe them to vote for them. Republicans, supposedly conservative, are at a disadvantage as in theory they offer less goodies.
Aside: Balanced budget amendment the solution, though I am sure they will find a way to circumvent it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Faith can mean trusting in anything that makes sense to you. I have faith to believe the sky is blue and the grass is green by the evidence of the colors I have learned since childhood. But to have faith in something that is not seen, but hoped for is evidenced in that which proves itself to be in all power, glory and Majesty throughout the universe.

Some say what is that faith that one can not use their five senses to detect. It is a faith of whom we can trust that is set before us before the foundation of the world in all He has created and set before us to see and enjoy.

Our faith comes by belief in the witness and testimonies of others as when you seek truth you will find it. Knock and the door will be opened unto you.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

[RevSRE]

What is the content of faith? Jesus can say "have faith", but if one doesn't know what faith is, Christ's statement is of little use.

In Christian thought, Faith is to accept what God said without having to see proof.
God, The Self-existent Majesty of Holiness is absolute Good. To turn from God in any way or form is Evil that leads to SIN. (Sin is the result not the cause.)
FAITH is to obey God always.

 

[Fastfredy0]

In Christian thought, Faith is to accept what God said without having to see proof.

Agreed, though the source of what God has stated in not in this statement and no one knows everything God has stated (John 21:25).

FAITH is to obey God always.

I would argue that Faith is not works as this statement states. Evidence of faith is found in works, but the definition of saving faith cannot include works for we are not saved by works (some disagree).
Also, to obey God always is not possible before glorification, thus if faith is to obey God always then none have saving faith. Hopefully, that is not the case and the definition needs adjustment.

Again, my question that you responded to was "What is the content of faith? Jesus can say "have faith", but if one doesn't know what faith is, Christ's statement is of little use". Your response did not address my question save to accept what God has said ... and my question asked for specifics. Restated my question is, "What has God said one must do and must not do to be saved". I don't think there is a precise answer. I precise answer would be, for example, saving faith is to do/believe A, B and C but don't do/believe X and Y.

I don't think anyone can accurately answer the question as posed though many can give a partial list (but all list will be missing something or adding something that is not necessary. Even if one could give a complete list, a slim percentage of people would except the answer. Perhaps, saving faith varies from person to person in regards to content to some degree.

 

[for_his_glory]

Agreed, though the source of what God has stated in not in this statement and no one knows everything God has stated (John 21:25).


I would argue that Faith is not works as this statement states. Evidence of faith is found in works, but the definition of saving faith cannot include works for we are not saved by works (some disagree).
Also, to obey God always is not possible before glorification, thus if faith is to obey God always then none have saving faith. Hopefully, that is not the case and the definition needs adjustment.

Again, my question that you responded to was "What is the content of faith? Jesus can say "have faith", but if one doesn't know what faith is, Christ's statement is of little use". Your response did not address my question save to accept what God has said ... and my question asked for specifics. Restated my question is, "What has God said one must do and must not do to be saved". I don't think there is a precise answer. I precise answer would be, for example, saving faith is to do/believe A, B and C but don't do/believe X and Y.

I don't think anyone can accurately answer the question as posed though many can give a partial list (but all list will be missing something or adding something that is not necessary. Even if one could give a complete list, a slim percentage of people would except the answer. Perhaps, saving faith varies from person to person in regards to content to some degree.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Our faith is in our belief and as a child of God that belief is in Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross for all who will believe in Him.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Our faith is in our belief and as a child of God that belief is in Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross for all who will believe in Him.

Your response did not address my question ... and my question asked for specifics. Restated my question is, "What has God said one must do and must not do to be saved". I don't think there is a precise answer. I precise answer would be, for example, saving faith is to do A, B and C but don't do X and Y and anything else does not matter.

Since I've read your responses on the "Tasted Death for Everyone" thread so I know your answer is also lacking content as to what people who never heard of Christ and died must do to be saved. Your short answer does not address this aspect of what the content of 'saving faith' is.

Example answer (not my answer):
To have 'saving faith' one must do the following (anything else doesn't matter):
1) confess Christ verbally as Lord and Lord mean to say Christ is Lord (or whatever)
2) get baptized
3) not take part in sorcery

Alternate method for those the have never heard of Christ:
1) Believe there is a God that made the trees
2) Don't worship the trees

I don't think anyone can accurately answer the question as posed though many can give a partial list (but all list will be missing something or adding something that is not necessary. Even if one could give a complete list, a slim percentage of people would except the answer. Perhaps, saving faith varies from person to person in regards to content to some degree.


Aside:
There is an unhelpful question about the minimum amount of knowledge required in order to be saved. Protestant theologians who wrested with this issue were aware of the juxtaposition of faith and certain knowledge “by which I hold as true all that God has revealed in his Word” and the “confidence that all my sins have been forgiven me for Christ’s sake.” This could give rise to locating the point of gravity either in the “general” faith or in the “special” faith; emphasizing “knowledge” or “confidence.”
There is a danger in reducing the faith to quantitative measurement. Such an arithmetic of belief obscures the qualitative, gracious, person, organic relation to Christ. Faith is trust in the grace of God and not calculable. The content of faith is not reducible to an arithmetic addition of articles. All believers, in principle, share the same knowledge and trust in the grace of God to save. Herman Bavinck – Reformed Dogmatics
I don't know if this is true, but I am leaning this way.

 

[RevSRE]

I don't think anyone can accurately answer the question as posed though many can give a partial list

first I will say I know we do not agree, I am so not CALVINIST we think totally different.

1. God make us with the Image of GOD in that we have the right and ability to make choice to obey HIM or NOT!
2. We have enough of the Image of GOD to truly know and fellowship with GOD.
God made us in His Image, enough like Him to truly know Him and He made us with the RIGHT and ABILITY to CHOOSE to KNOW HIM or NOT!
This is the KEY to this discussion.
It is really that simple,
IT IS A CHOICE.

God is absolute GOOD the turn from God in any way is to turn to EVIL. To Know God is to choose to TURN TO GOD! (This is NOT to turn from Evil, The discussion and practice of Knowing God is to TURN TO GOD. It should be clear that when we turn to God there can be no evil.)
Each of the Attributes that describe God and help reveal Who He Is to us clearly has an opposite description in the counterfeit Satan teaches.
Self-existent....................................................................Matter or energy as Form
Immutable.......................................................................evolving in a natural state
Eternal...............................................................................Beginning and Changing
Holy (set apart)..............................................................Part of all Universal Nature
Omniscience (Perfect knowledge)..........................Subject to changing reality
Omnipresent...................................................................Subject to Time and Space
Self-sufficient..................................................................Needs of Nature
Omnipotence..................................................................Universal Power in matter/ energy
Sovereignty......................................................................Universal existence
JUSTICE..............................................................................Relative outcome
Good...................................................................................Evil
Love.....................................................................................Hate
Mercy..................................................................................Wrath
Grace...................................................................................Works
I know there are many lists of attributes some would have more some less, My point here is that each has an opposite in the counterfeit.
We now need to expand that discussion here to include all these attributes of God.
The Last five of the list above deal with God’s relation to man. They are a little easier for us to understand. Before I have said:

When bible teachers misread or blend ancient philosophy and religion with what they think the bible says, or their theology requires, they come to a teaching like “all matter is evil”. They are very possibly led by Satan to teach error.

The problem is how could the Self-existent Holy God create Evil? How Could the Holy Son of God be born of evil flesh? The answer to both questions is “the premise is wrong.” God did not create evil and all flesh is not material evil.

There are some ideas that are basic to logic. If there is good the absence of good is evil. There is a level of thought that comes from elemental concepts. God cannot be evil. The very meaning of evil is an elemental opposite of God. To say this another way some ideas are so basic they are the foundation of the discussion. Elemental Ideas are so basic they come from the character and nature of God Himself and were not created by God they ARE the basis of the discussion. Words and ideas have meaning, elemental ideas come from the foundation of reality, and they just are. God is Holy, Love, Good. Did God create Holiness, Good, Love, Mercy, Justice? No, they are the attributes that describe God. The Opposite exists because the opposite is elemental to the Idea, unholy, hate, evil. From the idea God could not create evil came the many other ideas trying to explain how evil or sin came to be.

It is simple,
To Disobey GOD is EVIL that results in SIN.
Satan and man made a choice to disobey God.

Now if we simply make an expansion of the idea and include all the attributes, especially the last five, we can see the truth revealed here.
God does not change, God does not need to develop control or power, (He already has it). All of the attributes of God are always in place and are forever the same. All of the attributes of God are present to the ones that turn to God in obedience and fellowship. In HIM we have Justice, Goodness, Love, Mercy, Grace. It is only when one TURNS FROM HIM that the elemental opposite is a reality and takes over their life.
OK! Here is a possible new point for some. Both are always present, God does not change, His descriptive attributes and their opposites are always present. HERE IS THE POINT! Our relation to the truth is based on the choice WE MAKE to obey God or ourselves.
We will know the attributes of God IF WE CHOOSE GOD.
We will know the elemental opposites if we turn from God.
WE CANNOT BLAME GOD FOR WHERE WE STAND. IT IS A CHOICE!!

The answer to your question list how to be saved, IT IS A CHOICE TO OBEY GOD!!

 

[for_his_glory]

Your response did not address my question ... and my question asked for specifics. Restated my question is, "What has God said one must do and must not do to be saved". I don't think there is a precise answer. I precise answer would be, for example, saving faith is to do A, B and C but don't do X and Y and anything else does not matter.

Since I've read your responses on the "Tasted Death for Everyone" thread so I know your answer is also lacking content as to what people who never heard of Christ and died must do to be saved. Your short answer does not address this aspect of what the content of 'saving faith' is.

Example answer (not my answer):
To have 'saving faith' one must do the following (anything else doesn't matter):
1) confess Christ verbally as Lord and Lord mean to say Christ is Lord (or whatever)
2) get baptized
3) not take part in sorcery

Alternate method for those the have never heard of Christ:
1) Believe there is a God that made the trees
2) Don't worship the trees

I don't think anyone can accurately answer the question as posed though many can give a partial list (but all list will be missing something or adding something that is not necessary. Even if one could give a complete list, a slim percentage of people would except the answer. Perhaps, saving faith varies from person to person in regards to content to some degree.


Aside:
There is an unhelpful question about the minimum amount of knowledge required in order to be saved. Protestant theologians who wrested with this issue were aware of the juxtaposition of faith and certain knowledge “by which I hold as true all that God has revealed in his Word” and the “confidence that all my sins have been forgiven me for Christ’s sake.” This could give rise to locating the point of gravity either in the “general” faith or in the “special” faith; emphasizing “knowledge” or “confidence.”
There is a danger in reducing the faith to quantitative measurement. Such an arithmetic of belief obscures the qualitative, gracious, person, organic relation to Christ. Faith is trust in the grace of God and not calculable. The content of faith is not reducible to an arithmetic addition of articles. All believers, in principle, share the same knowledge and trust in the grace of God to save. Herman Bavinck – Reformed Dogmatics
I don't know if this is true, but I am leaning this way.

Many do answer you, but it is you that doesn't accept our answer as it is not what you are looking for or how you believe. IMO Romans 10:9-10 is the content of faith and how we are saved as we believe and confess Christ Jesus.

Really do not know what you are looking for.


There are five requirements to Salvation

1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15

 

[Fastfredy0]

I don't think anyone can accurately answer the question as posed though many can give a partial list

Agreed

God make us with the Image of GOD in that we have the right and ability to make choice to obey HIM or NOT!

There is no consensus regarding what the IMAGE OF GOD means, so that premise is of little value.
Example: Since I am in the image of God my choices will always align with God's choices. The premise is valueless because it is not defined, the conclusion has no foundation.

We have enough of the Image of GOD to truly know and fellowship with GOD.

Again, the IMAGE OF GOD premise lacks definition and scripture does not define it. The IMAGE OF GOD is of no practical use.

This is the KEY to this discussion.
It is really that simple,
IT IS A CHOICE.

Agreed, it's a choice. Who/what determines the choice being part of the understanding of the mechanism involved.

It should be clear that when we turn to God there can be no evil.)

I don't agree, as you are proposing a person can become sinless and that is not possible this side of physical death.

The problem is how could the Self-existent Holy God create Evil?

Wow, we left the thread question: Faith Is A Simple Test: To Find Out If You Are Teachable?

The answer to your question list how to be saved, IT IS A CHOICE TO OBEY GOD!!

?????? So your answer to my question: List all the things one must do and not do to be saved is .... IT IS A CHOICE TO OBEY GOD.
Interesting.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Many do answer you, but it is you that doesn't accept our answer as it is not what you are looking for or how you believe. IMO Romans 10:9-10 is the content of faith and how we are saved as we believe and confess Christ Jesus.

Well, if they gave a correct answer then all the answer would be the same. Logically, there is only one true answere. You yourself give two answers to the same question. Both of your answer cannot be true. There is only one complete list of things you must do or not do in order to be saved. Logically, at least one of your answers is untrue. Logically, you contradicted yourself. Logically, I cannot accept both your answers.
You give the answer of Roman 10:9-10. Then you don't explain with LORD even means. I am suppose to accept your unqualified answer? I think not.

There are five requirements to Salvation

1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15

Then you give another answer that has a list of things not included in your first answer.

You CANNOT have two different answers to this question as it applies to the same person. Either your first answer is your correct/complete response ... or your second answer is correct/complete response. "A" cannot equal NOT "A". Not to mention you said in previous post that people don't need to know of Christ to be saved, yet you list answers that all require knowledge of Christ. This is another contradiction.

Many do answer you, but it is you that doesn't accept our answer as it is not what you are looking for or how you believe.

I do not accept contradictory answers, this is true.
I am of the opinion that there is no precise answer, there is not list of all do's and dont's that would fit everyone that knows of Christ (not to mention your opinion of a list for those who do not know Christ).
I think there is a general answer, but no an exact list that can be dissected in a way that would form a legal contract.
There is some that agree with my opinion, not that that makes me correct.

Aside: I've seen lists by great theologians ... they don't agree

 

[for_his_glory]

Again, the IMAGE OF GOD premise lacks definition and scripture does not define it. The IMAGE OF GOD is of no practical use.

The image of God is pure and holy as we are made in that very image. God is Spirit and truth and we worship Him in His image of Spirit and truth as we are Spiritually born again into His image of His love as we were made pure and holy. As God is with worth and value, so now are we also of worth and value in the kingdom of God. Be ye holy as He is holy is, John 4:23-24; 1Peter 1:15-16.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then you give another answer that has a list of things not included in your first answer.

My first answer was Romans 10:9-10 as you asked what is the content of faith. That is number one in the five requirements of salvations in how we will be saved when Christ returns. I have not contradicted myself, but took it further in answering your question, but I guess you do not see that.

 

[Quantrill]

There is no certain number of requirements for faith.

The only requirement is,...do you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Saviour?

Do you believe?

If you believe that, then you are a child of God. Because you could not believe that unless God opened your eyes to it. (Matt. 16:13-18).

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Not to mention you said in previous post that people don't need to know of Christ to be saved

I never said people do not need to know of Christ to be saved. If I did please show me where I said that.
I believe what I said was that none of us truly knew Christ other than in name only when we first came to seek Him.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Any devout Catholic or Protestant is by definition not teachable, because their dogmas require their respective adherents to place traditional beliefs over what the Bible actually shows. In fact, most of what is taught in both of those circles directly contradict or even ignore what is actually taught in the Bible.

A perfect example of this is Christ's statement in Matt. 5:17. How many Catholics and Protestants can accept Christ's own words that no one was to even think that He come to abolish the Law or start or a new religion that was devoid of the obligation to keep God's laws? 0. Instead of taking Christ's plain words at face value, both groups argue that He came to keep the Law so other people wouldn't have to.

Another example of how both groups ignore what is in the Bible is Rom. 3:31 and 1 Cor. 7:19. Both of those passages show Paul telling Gentile Christians that they were supposed to keep God's commandments. But what do Catholics and Protestants do? They ignore it. Why? Because it is interferes with the traditional belief that Paul said Gentile Christians weren't required to keep God's commandments.

If Catholics and Protestants are really honest with themselves, they would know deep down that they believe what they do because false teachers told them to believe it or they really don't want to be corrected by the Bible.

Agreed


There is no consensus regarding what the IMAGE OF GOD means, so that premise is of little value.
Example: Since I am in the image of God my choices will always align with God's choices. The premise is valueless because it is not defined, the conclusion has no foundation.

It is not true when you say the Bible never defines what it means to be made in the image of God, because it does:

"whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." - Cor. 4:4

A person who is in the image of God has God's very character in them that has resulted from a lifetime of keeping His commandments the way they are supposed to be kept. It doesn't matter whether people can agree on what the term means or not because the Bible has already defined what it means for absolute certainty. It is incredibly foolish to believe the Bible wouldn't define this when Gen. 1 shows God saying "let Us make man in Our image".

 

[Fastfredy0]

Any devout Catholic or Protestant is by definition not teachable,

Well, the means the Spirit's gift of teaching is a vain effort.

Any devout Catholic or Protestant is by definition not teachable, because their dogmas require their respective adherents to place traditional beliefs over what the Bible actually shows

All protestant dogma, though based on the bible, admit to fallibility. Thus I disagree. I believe some confessions state this but I am too lazy to do a search.

If Catholics and Protestants are really honest with themselves, they would know deep down that they believe what they do because false teachers told them to believe it or they really don't want to be corrected by the Bible.

False premise.
Aside...i won't speak for the R.Cs.
There are false teachers, we all make doctrinal errors...but the only infallible source of God's word is the bible which protestants interpret fallibily.

It is not true when you say the Bible never defines what it means to be made in the image of God, because it does:

"whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." - Cor. 4:4

Good point ... I was referring to men who were originally created in the image of God...the "image of god" means is so poorly defined as to have little meaning and thus easily abused.

A person who is in the image of God has God's very character in them that has resulted from a lifetime of keeping His commandments the way they are supposed to be kept. It doesn't matter whether people can agree on what the term means or not because the Bible has already defined what it means for absolute certainty. It is incredibly foolish to believe the Bible wouldn't define this when Gen. 1 shows God saying "let Us make man in Our image".

We disagree.