Faith or Works?

[Randy]

Yes faith is required but where does it say “faith alone”?

1 cor 13:2?
1 cor 13:13?
Phil 1:29?
James 2:24?

How is this not grace from God not of ourselves?
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Jesus's intercession in regard to Peter -as he did not lose Him
But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

The Spirit according to what He hears from the mind of God
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
It's Christ in us not just us as well as Gods intercession as shown above.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

So those who really are Jesus's disciples will hold to the truth and walk in love and in doing so fulfill all the law. Those who claim to know Him but do not do what He states are liars.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[WIP]

Agreed.
You should Express this in your posts.
I feel that the CC is very much misunderstood by the Protestant world.
I just would love to see more understanding between us.
Fra' Lorenzo, a monk I studied with and respect said,,,,,we can know we are saved, at the foot of the cross.

One of the problems in many Protestant denominations with their watered down gospel is the near total disregard for works. It's almost like a fear of works. I even have had discussions about this in our own Lutheran congregation. Works is not a bad word and not evil. In my opinion, works is the outward expression of faith.

 

[Butch5]

One of the problems in many Protestant denominations with their watered down gospel is the near total disregard for works. It's almost like a fear of works. I even have had discussions about this in our own Lutheran congregation. Works is not a bad word and not evil. In my opinion, works is the outward expression of faith.

That's the fear they instilled in Christians.

 

[WIP]

That's the fear they instilled in Christians.

In my own church as soon as I bring up the topic of works I start hearing about legalism.

 

[donadams]

Agreed.
You should Express this in your posts.
I feel that the CC is very much misunderstood by the Protestant world.
I just would love to see more understanding between us.
Fra' Lorenzo, a monk I studied with and respect said,,,,,we can know we are saved, at the foot of the cross.

Redeemed by the blood of Christ yes!

 

[Hopeful 2]

In my own church as soon as I bring up the topic of works I start hearing about legalism.

Folks don't want to be told what to do, so if someone says "don't lie", they attack that voice.
Telling the truth is a work, done for salvation...to the deceived.

 

[GodsGrace]

One of the problems in many Protestant denominations with their watered down gospel is the near total disregard for works. It's almost like a fear of works. I even have had discussions about this in our own Lutheran congregation. Works is not a bad word and not evil. In my opinion, works is the outward expression of faith.

Agreed.
First of all, Jesus spoke of many works, both physical and behavioral.
How anyone can deny this is beyond my understanding.

I think part of the problem is the idea that some think that we think that we're saved by works.
As I've said many times, I don't know any Christian that believes he is saved by works. Only faith saves.

But what comes next?
Of course it has to be works!
This is what Jesus taught.

I think all Christian denominations have a lot in common.
Maybe we just like to highlight the differences instead.

Happy so many on this site agree with us!

 

[GodsGrace]

Folks don't want to be told what to do, so if someone says "don't lie", they attack that voice.
Telling the truth is a work, done for salvation...to the deceived.

I think this is the reason so many decide to be atheist.
They just don't want to be told what to do or not do.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's the fear they instilled in Christians.

Fear of serving God....
Which is what we are called to do!

 

[Hopeful 2]

I think this is the reason so many decide to be atheist.
They just don't want to be told what to do or not do.

Could be.
On the other hand, many seek out a church with little of no requirements of Christians.

 

[GodsGrace]

Could be.
On the other hand, many seek out a church with little of no requirements of Christians.

Yes. This too.
What's that verse....

I think Peter....will check.

 

[GodsGrace]

Could be.
On the other hand, many seek out a church with little of no requirements of Christians.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

 

[GodsGrace]

My hope is in God not my works.

I think this sums it up for me.
My hope is in God's unfailing love and faithfulness expressed through Jesus Christ my Lord not my works.

I'm never sure what persons mean.

Are you saying that once you're saved, you never have to do anything for God?

I do want to state that no one on this forum, and I do believe I've already stated this to you,
believes that anyone is saved by works.

Please keep that in mind when you reply.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey All,
"You mean what is necessary for salvation:
Faith or good works?" Quote from wondering

No I don't wondering. There is something inbetween the salvation of the believer and his/her performing good works. Continue to think about it and search the scriptures. You will find it if you look for it.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Josef,
You won't get a reply unless the other member knows you're writing to them.

I saw the above by mistake and would never have replied to you.

To reply to a member:
Click on the REPLY button at the bottom of the right hand screen.
Write what you want to write, and when done,
Click on the POST REPLY button also at the bottom of the right hand screen.

This will allow the other member to see that you replied and also, you won't have to retype what they wrote.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey All,
"You mean what is necessary for salvation:
Faith or good works?" Quote from wondering

No I don't wondering. There is something inbetween the salvation of the believer and his/her performing good works. Continue to think about it and search the scriptures. You will find it if you look for it.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Instead of letting me find it,,,,
just tell me what you believe it is.

Let's see if we can agree.
I think we do....

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey All
"I'm sure you must know what BELIEVE means in Greek. So, actually, john 3,16 does contain works." Quote from wondering

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Yes belief is a work. It is the work of God.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Josef,
I mentioned John 3:16 and said that it contained works.
The word BELEIVE contains works.

You replied with John 6:28-29
I don't understand why.

 

[Butch5]

In my own church as soon as I bring up the topic of works I start hearing about legalism.

Yep! But that's a contrived argument. Back in the day people used it for control. Now the argument just continue on. People are afraid to challenge "othodoxy".

 

[Randy]

I'm never sure what persons mean.

What do you mean "persons"?

Are you saying that once you're saved, you never have to do anything for God?

A spirit filled person will live as one who believes in Jesus. That's not doing things for God but walking in love which has a obedience context not work context.

I do want to state that no one on this forum, and I do believe I've already stated this to you,
believes that anyone is saved by works

Yet this is how God chose to "forgive sin". Col 1:20
So the focus is on what do you do to have your "sins" forgiven? I believe repentance was shown as a good start.
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Please keep that in mind when you reply.

 

[Butch5]

Fear of serving God....
Which is what we are called to do!

Not fear of serving God. They used fear to control people.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hey All,
"You mean what is necessary for salvation:
Faith or good works?" Quote from wondering

No I don't wondering. There is something inbetween the salvation of the believer and his/her performing good works. Continue to think about it and search the scriptures. You will find it if you look for it.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

It's not "either or", it's "both and". Faith and work are like the left and right halves of your brain, there's no "left brainer" who's good at analytic and logical thinking and "right brainer" who's good at holistic and conceptual thinking. That's a myth with no anatomical evidence. One cannot serve two masters, but one must use two halves, you weigh in too much on one side, you're off balance. If you believe "walk by faith and not by sight," then please "work by faith" as well, have faith in the right brain and work with your left brain.