Faith. Two questions.

[mutzrein]

One day a child of mine asked me, “Dad, why are we so poor?†I said, “What makes you think we are poor?†And he told me of all the things others he knew, did and had. So I said to him, “Son, when you go to bed at night you don’t have to worry about whether you’ll be warm and safe in your bed. It’s already provided for you. When you wake up in the morning, you don’t have to worry about whether there will be breakfast for you. It’s already provided. The clothes you wear, your food, your schooling, the home you live in and the security of a father that loves you. You don’t have to do anything to get them. They are all yours. You have everything you need.
And at this point I knew that God was showing me a lesson too so I carried on, “and this is the same relationship I have with my heavenly father. As I walk in the provision of his love every day I know that all of my needs have already been met. And yours are too.â€Â

And this is what faith is. We don’t have to worry about anything because we know that while we live and walk in the provision of a loving heavenly Father, whatever the circumstance, He cares and will provide for His own. And so our lives become a walk of faith. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to worry. We just need to dwell in Him. And this is the righteousness that we have in Christ. To those who are His son’s and daughters, His provision has already been made.

By Gods grace, through Christ alone, we have been born into His family as sons and heirs of the living God. And by reason of our relationship to Him, the gift of faith enables us to dwell in His provision day by day. We don’t have to strive. We don’t have to be anxious for anything because we know God will, rather, has already provided. And this is the inheritance we have through Christ. It is our confidence even as the gospel was preached in advance to Abraham, the man of faith - to whom God credited righteousness - because he believed God and trusted in His provision. This is the same righteousness imputed to us by faith that is inherent in any child who trusts in the provision of all things from his father.

So, faith is not an act of the will or even a state of mind. It is position of implicit trust. And when this is so, we walk as Jesus walked – doing the will of our Father in heaven.

Now tell me . . . who has faith?

 

[Rick W]

I've found analogies of an earthly parent/child relationship is very helpful in getting a point across, after all we can relate. And besides, isn't that who we are? Children? A childlike faith has much to offer.
Good post mutzrein.

 

[stansenemy]

faith

dear cedric ,you have probably asked the most complex questions ,but you have asked some of the most important questios,i used to be agnostic and had to be thoroughly convinced through study.ill share some thoughts with you from the scriptures but might make amendmnets in the future,because there is not just one reason that god requires faith but a number of reasons.john 1;18 says no man has seen god at any time,now this same god says dont use images in your worship of me.do you see the importance of one reason to pay attention to that scripture.he points out not only in the hebrew scriptures but in the greek scriptures that use of images in worship constitute idolatry a violaton of the ten commandments.now i am going to tell you something many people will not find popular.this was information for the honesthearted to seek out true worship and he knew that in the time that we were living in that there would be many religions professing to worship him but what did jesus also say matthew 7;22 there would be many that said they worshipped god acceptably but jesus would say go away i dont know you,because their wirship was not according to gods arrangement,now here is where faith comes in ,now we have just gone over the fact that use of images like crosses,statues,basically and paraphenalia is prohibited by god.now how many religions that profess to be christian that use images,alot,how do you think they would react if you told them that .not good.in fact it would take a lot of faith and trust in god to support you in your decision to worship him acceptably,because the popular view of our time is to use images,but we know that that is wrong according to god.it is in black and white in every single bible,.that takes faith,to see what is in gods word and do what it says irregardless of public opinion.if you had to ask the right questions to safeguard your opprtunity for everlasting life those questions definitly qualify.i share more at another timeoh by the way that scripture exodus20;4,psalms 78;58 isaiah 42;8 daniel 3;18 rev 20;4

 

[Cedric]

I can tell this is going to be a moving discussion, so try to address this post as much as possible, and not the original in the thread.

The answer to your question Cedric is found in Hebrews 11:6
(or why not read all of chapter 11? since the whole chapter deals with faith)

Thanks, that answers most of my question.

I dont know why God doesnt just show himself...i guess its just a test of faith that his doing this...besides...seeing isnt always beleiving. Think about air, we cant see it but we know its there.

Oh i live in sydney :-D

Well yes, but I can feel the air as I move my hands, I can taste/smell it and from a logical perspective, the idea of an atmosphere makes sense to me. I have no sense of God in anyway. Oh, and that's to bad man, Melbourne's better :wink:.

Man, in his fallen state, does not comprehend God's nature, nor His pure state of existence, and lives a life far below that of God's. God's standards are much higher, in fact, light years beyond man's doubtful, unbelieving, questioning, state of existence. God is EXTREMELY positive in nature, else His existence would not be paradise, yet man is very negative in thought and deed by comparison.

I said that to say this; because of that vast difference between man and God, God will not stoop down to man's level without justification (because He is perfect). Justification is the only way. This is far more than just requiring an intrinsic belief because there are alot of people that believe in God's existence, yet do not know Him.

Yeah, I know that. What I was getting at was that, the idea that God is separated from us, and we are judged according to whether we believe in his existence doesn't seem fair. Someone commented that God has given us an inbuilt set of values and morals yes? Well this doesn't feel... right.

C.S. Lewis explained it very well, in respects to why God requires faith. You see, God wants us to love him. If we were forced to love him, it wouldn't really be love. Therefore God will not reveal himself completely, because if he did He would be undeniable. God loves us so much, He allows our own free will into the relationship. We can choose to leave the relationship, which is the same as not having faith. Ergo, an all loving God gives free will to have faith or not.

That makes sense... sort of. Belief in God and loving him are two separate things though. One may love the idea of a God, but cannot love him because they are unsure of his existence. Belief in God is not an act of love. You can't love God so much and that leads to belief.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Actually God reveals Himself in many ways if one cares to look and believe. The creation is a good place to start but these days we view Creation only through the eyes of our own sciences, the study of the physical. God isn't physical therefore science can neither prove or disprove God. So, we need another lenses, faith.

That answers my question and makes some sense. Problem is, I cannot simply create faith within myself because I want it.

Yes. I think a big problem is that the Definition of Faith gets garbled from Christian to Atheist. You see, while an atheist will consider Faith as the belief in an unknown, a CHristian recognizes faith as the knowledge of the unseen, accepting that the Father exists whether we see him or not.

I see no major difference in those 2 definitions.

The creation is indeed a good place to start, because science, even with evolution, cannot tell us how time and space came into existance. Thus we must consider that everything is the effect of a higher power, be it a what or a who.

I don't like this approach. At one point in time we could not explain volcanoes or tornadoes, so we dubbed them 'act's of God' or the result of some other higher power working. When they devasted it was because 'God is punishing us for our wrong doings'. When they spared the cities it was because 'God has saved us. He is merciful'. We now know what actually causes these events. At this current point in time science cannot fully explain how the universe came into existence. Who's to say that it wont be explained in future though?

We can see through similarities in everyculture that mankind has either inherited or invented collectively a sense of right and wrong. An atheist will say that this is merely a result of evolution as well. A Christian, because Faith in their god demands love and concern for everyone, accepts morality because it automatically gives intrinsic value to human life. And by seeing that morals in many cultures, although they are supposed to be separated by evolution, have extremely similar values-such as not killing, not commiting adultery, not stealing.

Why are morals in different cultures meant to be different according to evolution? Those morals all make sense for a group to function. A group would not last long, if they stole/killed each other. Thus they have developed, and parents have taught their children.

Science cannot answer age old questions

Of course it can. The answers follow.

What is the purpose of life?

Life has no intrinsic meaning or purpose.

What is all this for? (the creation)

As above. It is not for anything.

Is this all there is?

What do you mean by 'this'? If you mean everything, well then yes.

Who am I?

You are PotLuck, a moderator of these Christian forums. You live in Belle Vernon, Pa and are interested in Electronics.

Do I return to oblivion as before I was born or is there something else?

By 'I' I assume you mean your soul. Science has no solid evidence of the existence of a soul, so it is not going anywhere.

Questions like these science can't answer and never will.

They all have answers. The problem is, no one likes the answers.

These are not questions of composition, structure or laws of nature but questions from the soul embedded in us from the beginning so we may seek our God.
And no I'm definitely not against science for I believe science is God-given so we may know Him more. As we see or reveal more of His creation through science we are to stand in ever-increasing awe of His glory and power. But we don't do that choosing instead to use the gift of science in an attempt to prove there is no God. Science produces the data... the scientist produces the conclusion.
Depends on what you set out to prove in the first place. All research begins with assumption.
/Hey, what are you doing?
I'm looking for something.
/What are you looking for?
I don't know.
/Why are you looking for it?
I don't know that either.

A defense attorney uses the science of forensics to prove his client innocent. The prosecutor uses forensic science to prove his guilt. Each seeks something different not looking for evidence the other wants but science is used by both... to produce data. In most cases conflicting evidence is overlooked simply because it's not what is sought. In the end the data produced from both is judged by a jury of his peers.. the conclusion.
The soul cannot be placed under a microscope. We see it's effect and know it exists but we can't point to it and say, "Here is the soul." Same with gravity... we see it's effects, know it exists but can't point to it and say, "This is gravity."

I want to find God, but I have not found anything. What other possible conclusion can I draw? Oh, and we may be able to point and say "this is gravity" soon enough. There is a popular theory that suggests we are on the verge of discovering a gravity(Higgs) particle.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Even an atheist has faith.... that the scientific conclusions, theories, of man's science are correct.

In case you have not read my signature, I am not an atheist.

1. God requires faith because, well he requires love. How can you love someone and have no faith in them?

Yes, I understand the answer to my first question now. It leads me to another though. It is in the final paragraphs of this post.

2. People say that they have never seen evidence of God... it's because they reject the true reality. You could try and explain the beginning of the universe with the "Big Bang" theory, but it's hopelessly flawed.

The Big Bang theory has its flaws. That does not automatically mean that some higher power exists. There are other options. Even if it did, that does not mean the higher power is necessarily the Christian God.

I believe faith exists because God wants us to find him on our own. Solving a problem on your own is more gratifying than being handed the answer. God's love is made more valuable to us by the fact that we have to seek it out. By not giving us all the answers out of hat, God ensures that the answers we do find will be treasured more.

Thanks for that ArtGuy. I thought that was very well put. So, what the first step in finding the answers?

...According to what Jesus said, if you want to be blessed here and after this life is over, just simply believe...

Basically, that is Pascal's Wager. There are many problems with that. Take a look at the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
EDIT: ^^ Why is that not showing up as a link? I see no problems with it. Just copy the link without the 'url' tabs into your... I forget what's called... Address bar?
The whole article has info but the problems with it are under the Criticisms section.

One day I said to God, "I know it's not right, but can I test your presence"? God said, "It's ok". So I just know He's presence, after a special "dialogue" (dont get me wrong here, it's not about the 'voice'). I believe whom I was talking to is our Lord Jesus with the Holy Spirit.

I know, you wont believe it, will you. 8-) Still, It's...........TRUE!

I believe that you believe it. I am unsure whether it actually happened. Should I try this?

I believe that if you died and returned back then met the demon, God may try to speak to you, personally.

Uhh... what? So I have to flat line first before I can speak to him?

So, faith is not an act of the will or even a state of mind. It is position of implicit trust. And when this is so, we walk as Jesus walked – doing the will of our Father in heaven.

Right on the money. I cannot force myself to believe in God. So unless he does something, I'm stuck.

Now tell me . . . who has faith?

Not me buddy... *sigh* I wish.

dear cedric ,you have probably asked the most complex questions ,but you have asked some of the most important questios,i used to be agnostic and had to be thoroughly convinced through study.ill share some thoughts with you from the scriptures but might make amendmnets in the future,because there is not just one reason that god requires faith but a number of reasons.john 1;18 says no man has seen god at any time,now this same god says dont use images in your worship of me.do you see the importance of one reason to pay attention to that scripture.he points out not only in the hebrew scriptures but in the greek scriptures that use of images in worship constitute idolatry a violaton of the ten commandments.now i am going to tell you something many people will not find popular.this was information for the honesthearted to seek out true worship and he knew that in the time that we were living in that there would be many religions professing to worship him but what did jesus also say matthew 7;22 there would be many that said they worshipped god acceptably but jesus would say go away i dont know you,because their wirship was not according to gods arrangement,now here is where faith comes in ,now we have just gone over the fact that use of images like crosses,statues,basically and paraphenalia is prohibited by god.now how many religions that profess to be christian that use images,alot,how do you think they would react if you told them that .not good.in fact it would take a lot of faith and trust in god to support you in your decision to worship him acceptably,because the popular view of our time is to use images,but we know that that is wrong according to god.it is in black and white in every single bible,.that takes faith,to see what is in gods word and do what it says irregardless of public opinion.if you had to ask the right questions to safeguard your opprtunity for everlasting life those questions definitly qualify.i share more at another timeoh by the way that scripture exodus20;4,psalms 78;58 isaiah 42;8 daniel 3;18 rev 20;4

I think you went a little off-topic there mate :D. It's all good though. I got something out of it. :wink:

I am flattered to see all of these people trying to help me. Thank you all for your time and efforts.

After re-reading what I have written I sometimes come off sounding to harsh. Please don't misunderstand me people. I'm not here to bash your beliefs. If I am going to come to God, I want my faith to be solid, so I have to 'shake the foundations' so to speak.

You all speak of faith as if it was a gift from God. Given the fact that he has given us freewill, how is that possible? Unless of course, you must ask for it. If it is indeed a gift, what should I do to receive it?

 

[Ajax 777]

Well, the Bible says "Faith comes but by hearing, and hearing but by the word of God."

Maybe you just need to read the Bible more.

A nice, simple answer. Either way, it certainly couldn't hurt.

 

[Guest]

Hey everyone,

I've been gone a while. Anyway, I created a couple of topics on this same subject earlier but it seems when I left that they went off-topic and my questions were... overshadowed. So instead of resurrecting them I thought I would start off fresh. I have two related, yet different questions and I would like them both answered individually. I'll keep them short to make them easier to answer.

1. EDIT 2: How can I gain faith in God?

2. How do you know God exists?

It would be great if I could get your feedback on these. They have still been troubling me as I was away. Thanks in advance.

I don't know how to answer the first one

you don't

 

[mutzrein]

So, faith is not an act of the will or even a state of mind. It is position of implicit trust. And when this is so, we walk as Jesus walked – doing the will of our Father in heaven.

Right on the money. I cannot force myself to believe in God. So unless he does something, I'm stuck.

Now tell me . . . who has faith?

Not me buddy... *sigh* I wish.

Cedric - With a name like that I figured it you might be from around these parts - an antipodean no less.

So ya don't mind being stuck & wishful huh. No worries. The bible says something about those who have been given 'faith' in God. And paraphrased it says, "From those to whom much has been given, much will be required." So, people like myself and others who have this faith will be much worse off, if we turn away from it, than those who never had it."

Cheers

 

[Cedric]

Well, the Bible says "Faith comes but by hearing, and hearing but by the word of God."

Maybe you just need to read the Bible more.

A nice, simple answer. Either way, it certainly couldn't hurt.

If it doesn't work I'm coming after you first Ajax. Nah jokes. I will do that, and try to stay as open minded as possible.

Hey everyone,

I've been gone a while. Anyway, I created a couple of topics on this same subject earlier but it seems when I left that they went off-topic and my questions were... overshadowed. So instead of resurrecting them I thought I would start off fresh. I have two related, yet different questions and I would like them both answered individually. I'll keep them short to make them easier to answer.

1. EDIT 2: How can I gain faith in God?

2. How do you know God exists?

It would be great if I could get your feedback on these. They have still been troubling me as I was away. Thanks in advance.

I don't know how to answer the first one

you don't

No... the question was, how do you know God exists? So it was predominantly addressed at Christians.

Cedric - With a name like that I figured it you might be from around these parts - an antipodean no less.

That's not my real name in case someone I know spots me here.

Is that right? I thought being an antipodean meant I was on the opposite side of the world. I'm right next to you, in Aus.

I was thinking about going to NZ on holidays though. I hear you've got great things over there, like hairy green fruit and hot mud :wink:. Jokes dude. I was actually thinking of it, camper van style, never got around to it though.

So ya don't mind being stuck & wishful huh. No worries. The bible says something about those who have been given 'faith' in God. And paraphrased it says, "From those to whom much has been given, much will be required." So, people like myself and others who have this faith will be much worse off, if we turn away from it, than those who never had it."

Cheers

Nah man. I hate being stuck, which is why I am wishful. I know you are trying to console me, but I'm sorry to say that doesn't really help me. Those that have been given faith are much better off in my opinion, whether they turn away from it or not. They have a choice, as I have been given no faith, I have none, and am left with no choice. Do you see?

 

[Cedric]

Cmon. Someone answer. Please?

 

[mutzrein]

Woops sorry about that mate. I should have followed up to see what you thought of what I mailed you. Thoughts?

 

[gingercat]

Hi, cedric,

My answers are

1. By reading the Bible and do the best to obey everything Jesus teaches.

2. He is giving me confidentce everyday that I can handle anything with Him.

Thank you for your questions :angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[HisFriend]

Hey everyone,

I've been gone a while. Anyway, I created a couple of topics on this same subject earlier but it seems when I left that they went off-topic and my questions were... overshadowed. So instead of resurrecting them I thought I would start off fresh. I have two related, yet different questions and I would like them both answered individually. I'll keep them short to make them easier to answer.

1. EDIT 2: How can I gain faith in God?

First by believing God exists. However, this is not really all that faith in God means. Faith in God involves doing what he says just like faith in your doctor involves doing what he says.

2. How do you know God exists?

I met him.

 

[Cedric]

Hi, cedric,

My answers are

1. By reading the Bible and do the best to obey everything Jesus teaches.

How will that give me faith in God?

1. How can I gain faith in God?

First by believing God exists. However, this is not really all that faith in God means. Faith in God involves doing what he says just like faith in your doctor involves doing what he says.

You didn't really answer my question. In essence this is what you replied with, 'How can I gain faith in God? First gain faith in God...'

[quote:c3ef8]
2. How do you know God exists?

I met him.[/quote:c3ef8] :o Uhh... care to expand on that? How can I meet him?

I adjusted the first question to clarify any ambiguity.

 

[mutzrein]

Cedric - did you get to have a look at the doc I sent you?

You can ignore this now - I got ya PM.

Thanks

 

[ChristineES]

1. I don't think anyone can tell you how to gain faith in God. That is a personal experience.
2. The Earth is too perfect to have created itself. It heals, the food chain works logically, and many other wonders. The Big Bang takes more faith than believing in than believing in God does. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I used to believe in it, not anymore. I used to believe in evolution, but I found out later there were too many holes in this theory. I found God and haven't turned back or even wanted to.
You seem to want to believe. I think most agnostics do, since they do not call themselves atheists. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

 

[Sothenes]

Well, the Bible says "Faith comes but by hearing, and hearing but by the word of God."

Maybe you just need to read the Bible more.

A nice, simple answer. Either way, it certainly couldn't hurt.

I agree.

 

[reznwerks]

faith

1. I don't think anyone can tell you how to gain faith in God. That is a personal experience.
True
2. The Earth is too perfect to have created itself.
It heals, the food chain works logically, and many other wonders.
Perfect? Really? The food chain works. It is not logic, if it didn't work we would either be different or not here. Things work the way they do because they do.If things were different than then either things would be different or we might not be here. We are and that is all that matters.

The Big Bang takes more faith than believing in than believing in God does. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I used to believe in it, not anymore.
How does the Big Bang take more faith than believing in God. Science can see evidence of it's occurrance and hasn't one bit of evidence that a supernatural being exists. You really think it is more logical to claim a supernatural being exists ,that always was, yet has no evidence to confirm the claim? You really believe it is logical that a being was created perfect and all knowing without a blue print and without cause?Would a perfect being fall into the trappings of human fallability by craving worship and belief which is a human emotion of ego.

I used to believe in evolution, but I found out later there were too many holes in this theory. I found God and haven't turned back or even wanted to.
I really need to clear this one up. The only people claiming that evolution has holes in it are theists and hard core theists at that. The overwhelming majority of those versed in the evolutionary sciences have no problem with it. Perhaps you should spend some time on the "Christianity and Science" thread of the past few weeks. A lot of those supposedly "holes" that exist have been filled in.
You seem to want to believe. I think most agnostics do, since they do not call themselves atheists. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
Wanting to believe and having a reason to believe are often very far apart.

 

[Lawtonfogle]

Re: faith

1. I don't think anyone can tell you how to gain faith in God. That is a personal experience.
True
2. The Earth is too perfect to have created itself.
It heals, the food chain works logically, and many other wonders.
Perfect? Really? The food chain works. It is not logic, if it didn't work we would either be different or not here. Things work the way they do because they do.If things were different than then either things would be different or we might not be here. We are and that is all that matters.

The Big Bang takes more faith than believing in than believing in God does. It makes absolutely no sense to me. I used to believe in it, not anymore.
How does the Big Bang take more faith than believing in God. Science can see evidence of it's occurrance and hasn't one bit of evidence that a supernatural being exists. You really think it is more logical to claim a supernatural being exists ,that always was, yet has no evidence to confirm the claim? You really believe it is logical that a being was created perfect and all knowing without a blue print and without cause?Would a perfect being fall into the trappings of human fallability by craving worship and belief which is a human emotion of ego.

I used to believe in evolution, but I found out later there were too many holes in this theory. I found God and haven't turned back or even wanted to.
I really need to clear this one up. The only people claiming that evolution has holes in it are theists and hard core theists at that. The overwhelming majority of those versed in the evolutionary sciences have no problem with it. Perhaps you should spend some time on the "Christianity and Science" thread of the past few weeks. A lot of those supposedly "holes" that exist have been filled in.
You seem to want to believe. I think most agnostics do, since they do not call themselves atheists. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
Wanting to believe and having a reason to believe are often very far apart.

First let me state I am a Christian.

Now, reznwerks has a point when he speaks of the food chain. If it didn't work, we wouldn't be here to say that it didn't work. So the food chain must work for a natural being to say it worked.

Now, for the Big Bang. What I know of it allows me to state these two things (given there is more out there I have yet to read).
1. The Big Bang does not make creation impossible and vice versa.
2. All scientific either points to a true Big Bang, or a simulated one.

By a simulated big bang, I am saying that the universe could have been created so that at the moment of creation, it was 3 billion years after the big bang. Of course, I put this just to clear up a few technical loop holes. In the end, I see no reason not to believe the big bang. But then again, I see no reason to believe it. I accept that God exist (personal experiences lead me to say this) and so I accept He created the world. I am do not have my belief of how (though I still try to learn about it).

Now, for evolution. My timelife concerning evolution is like this.

Grow up in Christian family where evolution was never mentioned, only heard a little at church, and decide its wrong.

Get into high school, decide to challenge evolution (with an open-mind).

Being open-mind allows me to see evolution (micro is a sure, so I will speak about macro) seems to be true, and that it does not controdict the Bible.

(Present) Continue to keep up to date on developments on evolution. See evidence evolution is not as sure as thought of though things such as evolution of the gaps (spin off of God of the gaps arguement), Darwin's Black Box, Gap theory, ect. (of course if you have anything to disbute what I have said, say new findings, I'm all ears).

As of now, the theory of evolution I was taught does not hold up, though I am sure there are those making a better fit theory. I am still looking up evidence for and against. But either way, there is a God who I believe sent His Son to die for me. As I have already said, I have come to this though personal experiences that mostlikely cannot be shared.

And to stop someone from saying I am just making these up, I will give a real world, scientific example of proof that cannot be shared. A man is bouncing a ball against a wall. It quantum tunnels though. He has proof that the ball quantum tunneled though the wall, be even if he had happened to have a videotape recording it happen, others will just say that it was special effect. He has proof for himself, but for others to use his proof it takes faith.

 

[Cedric]

Okay. To everyone having the Evolution vs. Intelligent Design debate in here. Let me save you the trouble and tell you that God cannot be proven or disproven either way. Atheists will try to disprove God through logic, but it will never work because God is outside logic. He has to obey no laws. Christians cannot prove his existence because He does not want to be proven. He requires faith. See why that is earlier in the thread. So enough already, aight?

Well, the Bible says "Faith comes but by hearing, and hearing but by the word of God."

Maybe you just need to read the Bible more.

A nice, simple answer. Either way, it certainly couldn't hurt.

I agree.

And if it didn't help?

 

[ChristineES]

I needed to take a life science (I am back in school studying accounting) and I decided to take Physical Anthropology. There was not one thing in that class that disproves my faith in God. In a way I really can't explain, it strenghthened my faith. I got an A in the course, and I even enjoyed it. There were other Christians in that class who felt as I did.
I don't feel as though I have closed my mind at all. I listened to both explanations and chose the one I wanted: God.