Bible Study Falling Away - Departure

[ByGraceThruFaith]

The resurrection comes first at His Coming.

Then we who are alive and remain will be caught together with them in the air, at His coming.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Why would Paul write to these people a second letter and tell them the Church will be resurrected and raptured (gathered) BEFORE His coming.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

• for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,

I hope you realize this is what you are teaching, by your interpretation, that you are saying that the coming of the Lord, will not take place until the Rapture comes first.


JLB

MY ANSWER:
1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(NOTE: While the Lord is descending, He blows (not the angels that blow the judgments) His trumpet, the dead/those asleep in Christ rise 1st. )


1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(NOTE 1: Next, those of us still alive are caught-up to meet the Lord in the air. Are his feet touching down on Mt Olive? NO!

 

[for_his_glory]

departure is the action of leaving, going, deviation, divergence, digression, shift, variation, falling away etc. etc. Picking any of these words still means departure. There are at least 40 verses that use the word depart/departure/falling away in the Bible.

Here are at least two that use the word depart and falling away as it all means departing/falling away from faith and truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

 

[for_his_glory]

Pretrib teachers twist and add to Rev 4:1, 2 to show we are caught up to Jesus before the great tribulation (God's great wrath). This is a deceptive teaching as it is only John being caught up in the Spirit while being a prisoner on the isle of Patmos as he sees a vision of a door opening before him. The first voice he heard speaking to him was that of great power and authority similar to the powerful sound a trumpet makes. The voice tells John to draw in closer to Gods Spirit to see the visions of those things that are yet future. After hearing this voice John was immediately immersed (slain) in the Holy Spirit and the visions were revealed to him. Being slain in the Spirit is like those disciples in John 18:6 who fell backwards when they realized the Spirit of Christ as being the I Am. It's also like that of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:3-8. Many, including myself, that have ever experienced this knows what I am talking about.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it. And every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation, Ephesians 1:13-14 and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[JLB]

MY ANSWER:
1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(NOTE: While the Lord is descending, He blows (not the angels that blow the judgments) His trumpet, the dead/those asleep in Christ rise 1st. )


1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(NOTE 1: Next, those of us still alive are caught-up to meet the Lord in the air. Are his feet touching down on Mt Olive? NO!

This event of the coming of the Lord is when the resurrection and rapture occur.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

The other thing that happens at His coming is Jesus destroys the antichrist and all the wicked.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8


At the coming of the Lord, these three things occur:

Resurrection
Rapture
Destruction of the antichrist and the wicked.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Pretrib teachers twist and add to Rev 4:1, 2 to show we are caught up to Jesus before the great tribulation (God's great wrath). This is a deceptive teaching as it is only John being caught up in the Spirit while being a prisoner on the isle of Patmos as he sees a vision of a door opening before him. The first voice he heard speaking to him was that of great power and authority similar to the powerful sound a trumpet makes. The voice tells John to draw in closer to Gods Spirit to see the visions of those things that are yet future. After hearing this voice John was immediately immersed (slain) in the Holy Spirit and the visions were revealed to him. Being slain in the Spirit is like those disciples in John 18:6 who fell backwards when they realized the Spirit of Christ as being the I Am. It's also like that of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:3-8. Many, including myself, that have ever experienced this knows what I am talking about.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it. And every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation, Ephesians 1:13-14 and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If the Resurrection, Rapture and destruction of the antichrist take place at His Coming, and its before the tribulation, who will persecute the Church?


JLB

 

[JLB]

MY ANSWER:
1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(NOTE: While the Lord is descending, He blows (not the angels that blow the judgments) His trumpet, the dead/those asleep in Christ rise 1st. )


1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The resurrection and rapture takes place at His coming, not before His coming.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him...2 Thessalonians 2:1

The gathering together at His coming is the resurrection and rapture.


The coming of the Lord and our gathering unto Him won’t happen until the falling away, the apostasy and the man of sin is revealed.

Here it is word for word, as plain as day.


Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,


The Day of Christ, the coming of the Lord, and the gathering of the Church at the resurrection and rapture will not come until the man of sin is revealed.



JLB

 

[JLB]

NOTE 1: Next, those of us still alive are caught-up to meet the Lord in the air. Are his feet touching down on Mt Olive? NO!

The coming of the Lord and the gathering of the Church to Him occurs in the air, high above the earth, on His way to Jerusalem, to destroy the antichrist and the wicked, where Hs feet will touch down on the mount of Olives.


This is the Day of the Lord, at His coming, when he comes with the Church, the dead in Christ, for the Church, those who are alive and remain.


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
Zechariah 14:1




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

If the Resurrection, Rapture and destruction of the antichrist take place at His Coming, and its before the tribulation, who will persecute the Church?


JLB

or even the need for the son of perdition, the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth, If we are out of here what's the purpose of the seven trumpets and the seven vial judgements. Satan and his army would be trying to attach and empty camp as the saints would not be there.

How people allow themselves to be deceived in believing a lie that could cause them to lose faith when all these things occur. It doesn't mean those who believe in pretrib won't be caught up to Jesus, but that some could possibly depart as they fall away from faith.

I use to believe in pretrib until my Spiritual eyes and ears were opened. Pretrib teachers love using Rev 4:1 as proof of a pretrib, but as hard as I tried to believe it I could not see it in that verse and that's when I started questioning their teachings and started searching the scriptures for my self.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. All Satan wants is to steal our faith.

 

[JLB]

or even the need for the son of perdition, the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth, If we are out of here what's the purpose of the seven trumpets and the seven vial judgements. Satan and his army would be trying to attach and empty camp as the saints would not be there.

How people allow themselves to be deceived in believing a lie that could cause them to lose faith when all these things occur. It doesn't mean those who believe in pretrib won't be caught up to Jesus, but that some could possibly depart as they fall away from faith.

I use to believe in pretrib until my Spiritual eyes and ears were opened. Pretrib teachers love using Rev 4:1 as proof of a pretrib, but as hard as I tried to believe it I could not see it in that verse and that's when I started questioning their teachings and started searching the scriptures for my self.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. All Satan wants is to steal our faith.

Amen.



JLB

 

[JLB]

1st: here's the link to KJV dictionary I posted from in the OP.

DEPARTURE - Definition from the KJV Dictionary

Definition of DEPARTURE from the King James Bible Dictionary

av1611.com

Here is what your link says. -

KJV Dictionary Definition: departure
departure
DEPARTURE, n.
1. The act of going away; a moving from or leaving a place; as a departure from London.
2. Death; decease; removal from the present life.
The time of my departure is at hand. 2 Tim. 4.
3. A forsaking; abandonment; as a departure from evil.
4. A desisting; as a departure from a purpose.
5. Ruin; destruction. Ezek. 26.
6. A deviation from the title or defense in pleading.
7. In navigation, the distance of two places on the same parallel, counted in miles of the equator.
Definitions from Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828.


This is simply a definition of the word departure from the Webster’s Dictionary!


Here is what the word apostasy means from the Strongs Concordance.


Falling away - Strongs G646 - apostasia

KJV Translation Count — Total: 2x
The KJV translates Strong's G646 in the following manner:to forsake (with G575) (1x), falling away (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a falling away, defection, apostasy

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.


This word appears two times in the New Testament.


Here they are:


but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. Acts 21:21


Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3



In both cases it refers to a forsaking of or a falling away from the faith in Christ or the law of Moses.


No where is this word used as the Webster’s Dictionary you quoted, uses it.

You are trying to compare the English word departure with the Greek word apostasia

This is where we get the word apostasy or apostate from.

If you want to compare Dictionary meanings of a word, then compare the applicable word.


apostasy
noun
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apos·ta·sy | \ ə-ˈpä-stə-sē \
plural apostasies
Definition of apostasy

1: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
2: abandonment of a previous loyalty : DEFECTION






JLB

 

[ByGraceThruFaith]

At the coming of the Lord, the scripture teaches these three things take place.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. Again in order, these three things occur at His coming:
2. Resurrection
3. Rapture
4. Destruction of the antichrist

Do you agree or disagree ?

JLB

Lets start here:

1 Thes 4:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(NOTE: verse 16 those asleep RISE, those alive are: CAUGHT UP ""TOGETHER WITH THEM""". This is ALL people's IN CHRIST/BELIEVERS dead & alive, RESURRECTED. Where does this meeting of BOTH/TOGETHER take place? IN THE AIR!)

 

[ByGraceThruFaith]

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Timothy is teaching about the falling away or the departure of sound doctrine in all truth. His departure is at hand as he is about to die and has fought a good fight and finished his course here on earth as he kept the faith.

Jesus will plant His feet on the Mt of Olives on the last day when He returns as then we are gathered/caught up to Him. There is no pretrib Rapture mentioned anywhere in scripture as it says Christ returns on the last day.

We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

THIS 1st:
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

OK, YOU HIGHLIGHT vs 6 THEN WRITE THE FOLLOWING:

Timothy is teaching about the falling away or the departure of sound doctrine in all truth. His departure is at hand as he is about to die and has fought a good fight and finished his course here on earth as he kept the faith.
Verse 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. So, your position here, is the depature in vs 6 is apostasy? REALLY?

THIS NEXT:
Jesus will plant His feet on the Mt of Olives on the last day when He returns as then we are gathered/caught up to Him.

SO, YOUR POSITION IS, HE PLANTS HIS FEET ON MT OLIVE. THEN CALLS US TO UP MEET HIM IN THE AIR. Sorry, I disagree with this narrative. The Trib is over when He physically returns. And the saints are with him.

Zec 14:5 On that day His feet will stand on Mt Olive. The Mt will split in 2 from east to west. Then the Lord your God will come, & """all the saints with Him."""
Jude 14 (B) Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

1 Thes 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, """at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints""".

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
(NOTE: IN THAT DAY! Not on any last day. Read Zec 12: 3, 4, 6, 8, 11 = IN THAT DAY!

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
(NOTE: The LORD shall be King over the earth IN THAT DAY.

Also as posted in #1
Final thought:
Find supporting scripture on Gods people (Body of Christ/Church) escaping wrath:

We see here the church escaping the wrath of the great tribulation soon to be poured out

1 Thes 1:10, And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even ""Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come""

Rom 5:9 being now justified by his blood ""we shall be saved from wrath"" through him

1 thes 5:9 ""God hath not appointed us to wrath"" but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

More Examples:

The angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear

Noah and his family were delivered from wrath before the flood came

The great tribulation to come is called the time of Jacobs/Israels trouble Jer 30:7.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers (the Church is the Bride of Christ), and shut thy doors about thee & hide thyself as it were for a little moment, ""until the wrath be past"".
(NOTE: Believers go to The New Jerusalem Revelation 21. The place Jesus goes to prepare for us in (John 14:3)