[_ Old Earth _] Fast cooling magma

[Guest]

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now, again, I comment. . . .which is more likely. The laws of physics were drastically changed because of "sin", . . . or Genesis is allegorical/a parable?

No contradictions in the bible. The earth will pass away, the surface of the earth will be burned with fire. But the earth itself will not pass away. All we need is God's help and Spirit to interpret the bible.

:-? What are you talking about???? :-? "should not be removed for ever." and "Heaven and Earth shall pass away" are clearly contradictory. Where are you seeing that "just the surface is removed"? :-? Is just "the surface" of Heaven also going to be burned with fire? :smt104

 

[dad]

So you don't have any specific scripture just a general feeling from your understanding of the early books of the Bible as a whole.

Well, the past was dealt with there, but all through the bible we see heaven, and the new heavens talked about. It is clear that the past and future have to be quite different.

[quote:07336]You didn't use any articles or peer reviewed works of research, so no search engine(s), and you haven't read any geological books nor looked through them for falsification

Science is limited, like a fishbowl to the present, or near past. All books deal with that. No observations of the far past as a physical only place exist. No books can help you there. No peer reviewed papers deal with it.

you simply made an assumption and are relying on others laziness to not disprove you. Gotcha.

[/quote:07336]
You should not assume such a thing. I deduced things from the evidence and the bible, and inspiration. Do you have a point, or are you too lazy to have one of those?

 

[dad]

:-? What are you talking about???? :-? "should not be removed for ever." and "Heaven and Earth shall pass away" are clearly contradictory.

Not at all. It is talking about, if we were to look deeply, that this earth will be here forever. The surface will be burned with fire, just before, or at the merge, where the new heavens appear. The ball, or the earth itself, will still be here.
[quote:7b964]Where are you seeing that "just the surface is removed"? :-? Is just "the surface" of Heaven also going to be burned with fire? :smt104

[/quote:7b964]
The surface of the world will be burned, this is not removal.
2Pe 3:12 - Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Is this from the perspective of the earth, when fire comes down from heaven? It seems so. Why? Because the sun and stars will still be here as well as the earth. But they will be changed. No longer as they now are, in decay, and physical only.
I suppose we could see this as some kind of light, or fire that might be seen when the heavens are merged with the spiritual, and renewed to their, I believe, original state. I would think, however, it may be talking about the great fire God sends on the earth at the end of the millenium.

 

[Guest]

:-? What are you talking about???? :-? "should not be removed for ever." and "Heaven and Earth shall pass away" are clearly contradictory.

Not at all. It is talking about, if we were to look deeply, that this earth will be here forever. The surface will be burned with fire, just before, or at the merge, where the new heavens appear. The ball, or the earth itself, will still be here.
[quote:c2769]Where are you seeing that "just the surface is removed"? :-? Is just "the surface" of Heaven also going to be burned with fire? :smt104

The surface of the world will be burned, this is not removal.
2Pe 3:12 - Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Is this from the perspective of the earth, when fire comes down from heaven? It seems so. Why? Because the sun and stars will still be here as well as the earth. But they will be changed. No longer as they now are, in decay, and physical only.
I suppose we could see this as some kind of light, or fire that might be seen when the heavens are merged with the spiritual, and renewed to their, I believe, original state. I would think, however, it may be talking about the great fire God sends on the earth at the end of the millenium.

[/quote:c2769]

Seems like two separate things to me. One talks about "heavens", whatever that means in this context, burning. The other talks about "heaven and earth SHALL PASS AWAY". Just the way I see it. If you still have some of the earth here, then earth has not passed away, just changed.

 

[Guest]

:-? What are you talking about???? :-? "should not be removed for ever." and "Heaven and Earth shall pass away" are clearly contradictory.

Not at all. It is talking about, if we were to look deeply, that this earth will be here forever. The surface will be burned with fire, just before, or at the merge, where the new heavens appear. The ball, or the earth itself, will still be here.
[quote:93b45]Where are you seeing that "just the surface is removed"? :-? Is just "the surface" of Heaven also going to be burned with fire? :smt104

The surface of the world will be burned, this is not removal.
2Pe 3:12 - Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Is this from the perspective of the earth, when fire comes down from heaven? It seems so. Why? Because the sun and stars will still be here as well as the earth. But they will be changed. No longer as they now are, in decay, and physical only.
I suppose we could see this as some kind of light, or fire that might be seen when the heavens are merged with the spiritual, and renewed to their, I believe, original state. I would think, however, it may be talking about the great fire God sends on the earth at the end of the millenium.

[/quote:93b45]

Seems like two separate things to me. One talks about "heavens", whatever that means in this context, burning. The other talks about "heaven and earth SHALL PASS AWAY". Just the way I see it. If you still have some of the earth here, then earth has not passed away, just changed.

 

[moniker]

You should not assume such a thing. I deduced things from the evidence and the bible, and inspiration. Do you have a point, or are you too lazy to have one of those?

Evidence you will not cite, scripture you will not quote... seems like all you have going for you is the inspirational aspect. Which is my point. You have made a claim and done nothing to substantiate it. It is the equivalent of anything my fevered mind could concoct (and I can come up with some crazy stuff) and yet you expect it to be treated differently than any other supposition or, at the very least, discussed differently.

 

[Slevin]

You should not assume such a thing. I deduced things from the evidence and the bible, and inspiration. Do you have a point, or are you too lazy to have one of those?

Evidence you will not cite, scripture you will not quote... seems like all you have going for you is the inspirational aspect. Which is my point. You have made a claim and done nothing to substantiate it. It is the equivalent of anything my fevered mind could concoct (and I can come up with some crazy stuff) and yet you expect it to be treated differently than any other supposition or, at the very least, discussed differently.

Don't worry about him, he was laughed out of a different forum so he's bringing his hubris here.

 

[dad]

Don't worry about him, he was laughed out of a different forum so he's bringing his hubris here.

Not true.

 

[dad]

Evidence you will not cite, scripture you will not quote...

All evidence goes along with a different past and future as well as a same one. AS for the bible it clearly in many many ways describes the future and past as different. Didn't I list some things? Here is one for you. Plants like trees were created only days before we ate them. Also, they were planted, says the bible, where we lived, and the beasts, eden. So, they grew fast. Is that different?


Ac 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

[dad]

Seems like two separate things to me. One talks about "heavens", whatever that means in this context, burning.

Since we know fire comes down from heaven from God to burn the surface of the earth, and the rebels at the end of the millenium, I see no need to agaonize ove the meaning here.

[quote:4fd3c]The other talks about "heaven and earth SHALL PASS AWAY". Just the way I see it. If you still have some of the earth here, then earth has not passed away, just changed.

[/quote:4fd3c]
Some people are so literal. This earth as we know it will pass away but good. The surface will be burned, mountains made low, like a cheese melt, just hills after that. The fabric of the universe, and earth will also change, and be also spiritual, and eternal. No more decay. The sun and stars will never burn out. Earth will never decay away. The whole temporary universe we know will pass away, as such. It will be changed, restored, and made new. Truly the earth and universe, or heavens will pass away, and a truly new ones revealed. But God is still coming here to this same world forever to live, and we will still have stars and a sun. Etc. The eternal complete, merged, and I say, original creation back forever.

 

[Guest]

Well, dad, I haven't much else to say. I don't get, nor follow, where your beliefs come from, but if you choose to hold those beliefs, then that is your choice.

By the way, and I'll just say this, . . the whole "fire coming down from heaven" is just one of many examples of where the writer believed the world was flat. It's common amongst many biblical writers, back when they only knew the sky as one direction, and the stars as small points of light, not galactic bodies millions of light years away.

Blessings.

 

[dad]

Well, dad, I haven't much else to say. I don't get, nor follow, where your beliefs come from, but if you choose to hold those beliefs, then that is your choice.

If you hold your same past and future beliefs, if you have them, that is your choice.

By the way, and I'll just say this, . . the whole "fire coming down from heaven" is just one of many examples of where the writer believed the world was flat.

Nonsense, Orion. God burning the surface of the planet, and the wicked satan following rebels at the end of the millenium has nothing at all to do with your flat earth!

It's common amongst many biblical writers, back when they only knew the sky as one direction, and the stars as small points of light, not galactic bodies millions of light years away.

They are not millions of years away. Never were. They are very far, yes. But since the former light was different, it took almost no time to get here. Nowhere is there any millions of years, any more than a flat earth.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

They are not millions of years away. Never were. They are very far, yes. But since the former light was different, it took almost no time to get here. Nowhere is there any millions of years, any more than a flat earth.

Your hypotheses, as always, are amusingly preposterous. You say all of this, this entire thread, without ever really wondering what consequences of such a state of past affairs would have on the current universe. Assuming for instance that matter must have cooled much faster 6000 years ago, to the point that incredible upheavals in the earth's crust could cool fast enough not to boil us all from the sudden and complete melting of the earth's surface, you haven't considered a number of things. Where does that energy go? What affects on the surrounding universe would this energy have? Why would there be no record of the sudden fundamental change in the way physics works? I mean suddenly pots would stay warmer longer, suddenly fires would burn for hours instead of the minutes that they would have been capable of sustaining? Why would the sky be devoid of the hundreds of supernovae each night from the visible 10^22 stars in the sky? Why indeed would there be night?

Because if all the light of the 10000 billion billion suns could have in the past reached us, then there would never be night. If the temperature to which all objects very quickly became was ~60 degrees F fires would burn very very fast, stars would burn very very very fast. Indeed the only thing keeping this new universe you've portraited from instantly succumbing to heat death is divine intervention.

 

[dad]

Your hypotheses, as always, are amusingly preposterous. You say all of this, this entire thread, without ever really wondering what consequences of such a state of past affairs would have on the current universe.

Really? You think I never considered it well, eh? Alright, let's see what you got.

[quote:e2861]Assuming for instance that matter must have cooled much faster 6000 years ago, to the point that incredible upheavals in the earth's crust could cool fast enough not to boil us all from the sudden and complete melting of the earth's surface, you haven't considered a number of things.

Right, I wait with baited breath here.

Where does that energy go? What affects on the surrounding universe would this energy have?

Where does energy go? Look at it this way, a physical only universe produces, or has so much energy. The merged, complete, spiritual added universe works a different way. We do not measure things in PO universe energy units! Heavens. Talk about amusing. PO energy is not produced in a non PO universe. How could it be? What was produced was something in line with the reality of the universe at the time. That reality saw massive matter movements, and little heat.

Why would there be no record of the sudden fundamental change in the way physics works? I mean suddenly pots would stay warmer longer, suddenly fires would burn for hours instead of the minutes that they would have been capable of sustaining?

When did this change occur, first of all? 100 years after the flood, where almost everyone on earth was just wiped out! How many people recorded differences in their pots??? Hec, the tongues if you remember had all just been confused!!!! They had to resort to heirioglyhics!

Why would the sky be devoid of the hundreds of supernovae each night from the visible 10^22 stars in the sky? Why indeed would there be night?

If the supernova were split process explosions, why would we have seen then before the split? Try to think these things out if you can.

Because if all the light of the 10000 billion billion suns could have in the past reached us, then there would never be night.

You assume present light. Who says that the former light relayed to earth more than a twinkle in appropriate cases? Maybe the sky did look different. I expect it will look different at the new heavens as well! Do you think the eternal stars then will take night away? Well, in heaven, as it happens there is no night, if I recall!

If the temperature to which all objects very quickly became was ~60 degrees F fires would burn very very fast, stars would burn very very very fast.

Where did you dig up the -60 degree temperatures? No idea where you dreamed that one up.

Indeed the only thing keeping this new universe you've portraited from instantly succumbing to heat death is divine intervention.

[/quote:e2861]
What heat? Do you somehow imagine the nice spiritual former light was real hot or something!!!!? If so, why in heaven's name would you claim that??????

 

[Guest]

Nonsense, Orion. God burning the surface of the planet, and the wicked satan following rebels at the end of the millenium has nothing at all to do with your flat earth!

It's the same as any imagery of someone "going up into the clouds" . . .as if Heaven was that direction (seeing that such a realm is not in any specific direction), thus making it look like "going up into the clouds" was going to heaven, is just another example of when people thougth that the earth was flat, and heaven was just beyond the curtain of stars. :roll:

They are not millions of years away. Never were. They are very far, yes. But since the former light was different, it took almost no time to get here. Nowhere is there any millions of years, any more than a flat earth.

Oh, this is simply wonderful. Therefore, you can throw Romans 1:20 right out the window, since what we see as evidenced in nature/creation is not true at all. What we see as stars that are millions and billions of light years away, is all false (according to you, and YEC biblical literalists). That also means that because of that particular action, God would have (in effect) deceived millions of poeple with that act of "increased speed of light".

I choose to see creation with the evidence that is true, . . . . not with blinders on, in which there is no evidence (a MUCH different world before the fall).

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

The ~ denotes an approximation. It was approximately 60 degrees that everything quickly falls to.

When did this change occur, first of all? 100 years after the flood, where almost everyone on earth was just wiped out! How many people recorded differences in their pots??? Hec, the tongues if you remember had all just been confused!!!! They had to resort to heirioglyhics!

Funny, they kept rather close track of the geneology of everyone involved over that time. You would think that someone would have noticed the rather jaw dropping sudden change in the way fires burn or heat no longer diffuses nearly as quickly.

If the supernova were split process explosions, why would we have seen then before the split? Try to think these things out if you can.

Well everything else that stars do doesn't seem to be different. Because that would be inconvenient in your universe.

Everything you have said is really inconsistent. You claim that the bible is a perfect history and yet none of the changes in the physics of the universe that would have consequences accross the gamut of things that happen have been recorded. Even using the Bible as evidence your conjectures hold no water.(Just like the sky)

 

[dad]

It's the same as any imagery of someone "going up into the clouds" . . .as if Heaven was that direction (seeing that such a realm is not in any specific direction), thus making it look like "going up into the clouds" was going to heaven, is just another example of when people thougth that the earth was flat, and heaven was just beyond the curtain of stars. :roll:

You call it imagery, but it is very real. There is a new heaven and earth. There is fire from heaven that comes at the end of the millenium, to destroy the rbels who follow the devil, who is released from the bottomless pit to see if they would listen to him after all that heaven. It burns the surface of the earth, and this is right before the new heaven and earth are revealed. Jesus went up, and that is where heaven is. Not below. That is why the tower of babel was built, not a tunnel dug. No, we cannot see it, as we are in a seperate state of existance at the moment, but one day we will.

Oh, this is simply wonderful. Therefore, you can throw Romans 1:20 right out the window, since what we see as evidenced in nature/creation is not true at all.

The invisible things since the creation of the world can be seen by faith. Like Paul said through a glass, darkly. But one day, face to face. But remember that these things that are not visible to our eyes were things since the creation. That includes the past, and the merged state if there was one.

What we see as stars that are millions and billions of light years away, is all false (according to you, and YEC biblical literalists).

No it is true, they are as far away as our present light takes to rravel in billions of years, theoretically. The thing is it was not our light that was here. Adam saw the light of far stars. Our light is temporary universe, physical only universe light. It's speed has nothing to do with real time.

That also means that because of that particular action, God would have (in effect) deceived millions of poeple with that act of "increased speed of light".

No. It was not our light that was here, so it was not an increase in it's speed. Our light is what came to exist in the seperated PO state of the universe that we live in now, that is temporary. The deception is claiming, without proof, that theis state will always be, and always was! That is not God doing that. That is some spirit that tried to make God sound dead, or like a liar.

 

[dad]

Funny, they kept rather close track of the geneology of everyone involved over that time. You would think that someone would have noticed the rather jaw dropping sudden change in the way fires burn or heat no longer diffuses nearly as quickly.

The change came after the flood, and the confusion of languages, and the rapid separation of continents. There was so much change that had just went on, that noticing how fast magma cooled was not something that apparently was in the top things to remember. But I haven't studied hieroglyphics, and legends to see if there were any different accounts of this.
One thing the bible records, men would notice is shorter lifespans. Also, we noticed we all do not speak the same tongue! We might also notice that we are not all on the same continent! We might notice rainbows, and no more water coming up in a mist to water the earth. Etc.

Well everything else that stars do doesn't seem to be different. Because that would be inconvenient in your universe.

How would you know what was different? All you have to compare things with is the current temporary state of the universe we live in. Because the light from stars was carried here on the light highway that was still merged.

Everything you have said is really inconsistent. You claim that the bible is a perfect history and yet none of the changes in the physics of the universe that would have consequences accross the gamut of things that happen have been recorded. Even using the Bible as evidence your conjectures hold no water.(Just like the sky)

Many things have been recorded, like how different it was, and will be, that we are in a universe soon to pass away, etc. The water above the earth was recorded, it is no longer there. Lifespans, plant growth, and even a light that existed before the sun was made. The differences are pretty well outlined.

 

[Slevin]

Don't worry about him, he was laughed out of a different forum so he's bringing his hubris here.

Not true.

Oh that's why nearly everyone who doesn't enjoy the entertainment has you on ignore?

Your double standard of proof is amazing.

 

[dad]

Oh that's why nearly everyone who doesn't enjoy the entertainment has you on ignore?

Your double standard of proof is amazing.

Can you elaborate? This board, some other one? As for the suggestion that my opinion is entertainment, thank you. I don't like to do boring. Do you? Much of the world has God on ignore. I would be flatterered to be in such company.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, do you have a point? Some science or bible perhaps?