[_ Old Earth _] Fast cooling magma

[moniker]

Got any non-biblical evidence for this split?

He doesn't*. He also doesn't have very good biblical evidence for it. Doesn't matter, though, because he won't try to prove anything; he just sits back and shifts the burden of proof onto everyone else who have to disprove his claim, thinking that if he says it often enough it will become true. No citations, no quotations, no nothing this entire thread. Just the original claim and a constant attempt to make other people do the legwork since his second post.

*Which isn't to say that it doesn't exist, it is possible although improbable, he simply doesn't have any.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Sure. We can look at starlight from very ancient and distant stars.

Demonstrably true. We can tell what elements are forming, the processes going on in the stars, and many other things. Would you like to learn how we know?

You missed what I was saying. I know all that. As I said, the whole universe now is physical only.

And we can look at light billions of years old, and see that it was physical only, then. How far back do we have to go to find evidence to support your belief?

Barbarian chuckles:
Nope. Someone's abused your trust on that one. You see, the radiation from the stars gives us spectral lines that can show us what they are made of. The spectrum of electromagnetic radiation also tells us much of what goes on inside a star. And since the light from distant stars shows us how they were millions of years ago, we can compare them to closer stars, the radiation of which is closer to our time. And the laws involved are the same. So we know, by the evidence. I am always surprised that YEs have so little regard for faith as to make it an insult.

No, you missed the point, and are way off there. Again, I know all that. What you do not know is that it was different in the past and will be again in the future. As I tried to explain, the split process that seperated the physical from the spiritual may have had some areas that were split before others.

In other words, you made up a non-scriptural doctrine, for which no evidence exists, and you want us to believe it. :

Barbarian earlier:
I know you want us to believe that. But you have no evidence whatever for it. Nor is it scriptural.

There is every bit as much evidence for this as for the different past as the same past.

No. As you can see, the evidence from ancient startlight is very clear.

As for scripture, rather than make silly empty comments, if anything is unscriptural, show us how.

Quite easily. Where in scrpture can we find this belief of yours?

Barbarian on Dad's new doctrine:
You invented it to make the Bible more acceptable to you.

No, the bible was already acceptable, and I simply read what it said the future will be like, and the past was like.

Nope. God never said any of the things youi're trying to sell here.

Not pld age past wet dreams.

Ah, vulgarity. A new way to make you more credible?


Barbarian observes:
We can look at the fossils of ancient creatures and see that they lived by the same processes that go on now, and that they physical forces were then the same.

Only in your head!!!! At least if we are talking more than 4400 years or so ago. If you claim otherwise, show us an example here and now.

Sure. The skeletons of dinosaurs clearly shows the relationship to robustness and absolute size we see today. This is because the strength of a bone increases as the square of its length, but the force on it increases by the cube of its length. This shows that gravity has been essentially constant.

Barbarian observes:
Trilobites. The lenses of their eyes are properly curved so as to use light as it is and always has been. If light was different, the lenses would be different. Would you like to learn why?

Yes. What about the curvature of the trilobite eye says that light was exactly the same?

Lens focus by refraction. Refraction occurs when light goes from one medium to another, and changes speed. If the medium surface is not perpedicular to the light, it also changes direction. So if the speed of light was different then, the curvature of the eyes would be different. But it's not.

You are funny.

Well, yes, I am, but in this case, I just know some things you don't.

Barbarian observes:
Structural and gait analysis of dinosaurs. The relationship beteen speed and gait in a walking animal is determined by Froud numbers, which essentially treats the leg as a pendulum, which is dependent only on lenght and gravity. And the tracks of the dinosaurs show gravity was indeed as it is today.

I disagree.

That's tough. Personal incredulity counts for nothing.

I say there are many assumptions involved there.

Just one. "Gravity has been constant." And darned if the results don't come out just the way they do today. So the assumption was verified.

Barbarian observes:
Lifespans are not physical laws.

So what?

So they will vary depending on the genome of the organism.

They are something different in the past that was a result of different laws!

Show me your evidence.

Barbarian observes:
There is not a single rate of evolution. It depends on the fitness of the organism, and the degree of selective pressure.

This is misleading.

Nonsense. It's precisely right.

ALL evolution now is more or less at a snails pace compared to what I am talking about.

That's nonsense, too. Some evolution causes speciation within human lifetimes. Some takes tens of millions of years.

Just as the continental spread is at a snail's pace.

Continents have never moved that fast. They move about as fast as your fingernails grow, but there is considerable variation in that, too.

Barbarian observes:
Measurable by radioisotope dating. Recently, it was used to test the date for the erupted matieral that buried Pompeii, and it worked, so we know it's accurate.

When was POmpeii?

79 AD.

Of course it is pretty accurate up to a point. But totally absolutely, completely erroneous after that.

Show me your evidence.

Barbarian observes:
For one thing, you felt it necessary to invent all the unscriptural nonsense to make the Bible acceptable to you.

Again, you are saying nothing here.

I'm pointing out that all these new doctrines you've been presenting are not scriptural. If you want us to believe them, you'll have to come up with something more secure than your wishful thinking.

 

[Slevin]

What is impossible is not important, here. What was normal, in the earth, is.

Define normal.

No, that is you saying it was like the present. Where are the clouds in Eden? Where does it say the waters above the firmament were in clouds? Ridiculous.

Where does it say the waters above the firmament weren't clouds? What do you think rain is? Water. Where does rain come from? The sky.

râqîya‛
raw-kee'-ah
From H7554; properly an expanse, that is, the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky: - firmament.

No, more like underground seas, how is that not amazing?

Because those still exist today, and aren't uncommon. Underground reserves.

But they were together. Surely you know that much? Therefore, at creation, the land that was seperated had to be that supercontinent.
[quote:8bce4]

I don't think your reasoning is correct in this regard. Together in what sense? Look at a map, dad, it looks like all the water is together to me! Please show me where the oceans are actually separate.

[quote:8bce4]That is science, there are fossils and all kinds of evidence that show the continents were together. You kidding?

Science, fossils, evidence. Great....please point it out.

We ate fruit from trees that were planted a couple days before we ate it. Thats how.

How do you know that? Does it say "and Adam ate some fruit a couple days after they were planted?

No...they don't provide a timeline. Besides, he's God. He doesn't need to have different physics in order to affect things miraculously.

The spiritual exists, of course, but is seperate at the moment. That is why science cannot detect it. This physical only temporary universe is all pitiful science can deal with. Angels are all around us. But the spirit world is seperate, so we can't see them unless they wish to be seen.

How do you know it's separate? Don't we have souls, dad? Is that not spiritual? Are we not in communication with God through prayer? Is that not spiritual? Is God not omnipresent? Can he not see and affect everything?

The past was spiritual and physical, with no decay, and a different light, perhaps no gravity as we know it, and much more. That is the kind of doifferences we are talking here. Science looking at decaying rocks, and assuming it always did and will decay is assuming it was the same.

And what's your evidence for this? You don't even have biblical evidence.

Ge 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided;

Now it is a bit of a mystery, the full meaning of this. There are a few main interpretaions. But they all are a part of the split, dividing tonges, and continents, etc.

So how does that insinuate a spiritual/physical split? You just inserted your assumptions into that. Why should I accept your interpretation over what it literally says? It could also mean nations divided.

Look at supernovae. We know things like the sun would burn out over time the way they are now. That is not eternal. The new heavens eternal state is different.

Why do we need stars in heaven?

No, I am saying the future, and original state of the universe was different than we see now. The state of matter, light, and everything. What we have now is a part of the picture. The physical only, temporary part. WE can't even see that earth is the center of the universe in this state!

[/quote:8bce4][/quote:8bce4]

How do you know? You base all of this off of one line in scripture, out of context. Why should I accept your interpretation when you can't even demonstrate properly your belief?

 

[dad]

Got any non-biblical evidence for this split?

Yes. The flood, long lifespans, far starlight reaching Adam, and many other things are impossible in this present physical only universe. The past was clearly different. The future is also clearly different. We are in the temporary universe, that is soon to pass away.

 

[dad]

Barbarian observes:
Sure. We can look at starlight from very ancient and distant stars.

Demonstrably true. We can tell what elements are forming, the processes going on in the stars, and many other things. Would you like to learn how we know?

Then I am right, thank you the universe is Po now. so?



[quote:d573e]And we can look at light billions of years old, and see that it was physical only, then. How far back do we have to go to find evidence to support your belief?

No you can not look in the far past that did not exist. There was no billions of years ago for creation. The light was different, so it got here almost right away. The split happened some 4400 years ago. Before that the light was different. That is why we can see it.

Barbarian chuckles:
Nope. Someone's abused your trust on that one. You see, the radiation from the stars gives us spectral lines that can show us what they are made of. The spectrum of electromagnetic radiation also tells us much of what goes on inside a star.

Great, kindergarden class here. Tell us something we don't know! The universe is PO, didn't I aready cover that? What else would you expect in a star???

And since the light from distant stars shows us how they were millions of years ago, we can compare them to closer stars, the radiation of which is closer to our time.

No millions anywhere, but yes, the far ones and the close ones are physical only universe matter, and react now as such, as we would expect. The point is, 4400 years ago, the did not do this. What we see now is PO matter in a PO universe, with it's light. Yes it is in decay, and radiates a certain way, and our light now behaves a certain way. One cannot look at this and assume it will always be so. That is all you are doing.

And the laws involved are the same. So we know, by the evidence. I am always surprised that YEs have so little regard for faith as to make it an insult.

The laws for far stars and the sun, of course work the same, yes, of course. The issue is not that in any way, but the issue is how did the laws work pre split, and in the future? All you do is look under your nose at the PO present.

In other words, you made up a non-scriptural doctrine, for which no evidence exists, and you want us to believe it. :

Show me you bible case that the future and past were and will not be different. Otherwise you are talking out your assumption.

No. As you can see, the evidence from ancient startlight is very clear.

AS I showed all you, no.

Quite easily. Where in scrpture can we find this belief of yours?

From Genesis to revelations and in between! The past and future are different, This heavens is just temporary. Any bible to oppose that?

Nope. God never said any of the things youi're trying to sell here.

Heaven and earth will pass away ---Jesus My God said plenty.

Sure. The skeletons of dinosaurs clearly shows the relationship to robustness and absolute size we see today. This is because the strength of a bone increases as the square of its length, but the force on it increases by the cube of its length. This shows that gravity has been essentially constant.

But there was forces in place before our present gravity. Can you show how bones of dinosaurs would not be the same? If the force in place were similar to gravity, perhaps slightly less, say?

Lens focus by refraction. Refraction occurs when light goes from one medium to another, and changes speed. If the medium surface is not perpedicular to the light, it also changes direction. So if the speed of light was different then, the curvature of the eyes would be different. But it's not.

It was not the speed of light that was different so much as light itself. It was not our present light going faster. Nothing about trilobite eyes says that they had the slightest problem with the former light!!! I hear the light of heaven is a soft light, and I don't know that the refraction levels are the same at all. Do you? Or do you even believe in heaven, and it's light?

Well, yes, I am, but in this case, I just know some things you don't.

Glad you think so. Have all the rope you need.

That's tough. Personal incredulity counts for nothing.

No, it is fact. Your petty present based ideas cannot be taken into a different past. The scale of things you look at is not indicitive of how things were in the least. You hardly make a cohesive point.

Just one. "Gravity has been constant." And darned if the results don't come out just the way they do today. So the assumption was verified.

Well, there you go. Gravity is NOT constant in the past and fiuture, no wonder you were way off. Can you prove it was? No. For example, in the future the bible talks about a city the size of the moon landing on earth. Gravity as we know it then? Don't think so.

So they will vary depending on the genome of the organism.

Of course they will. But in the past they were ten times longer than now, that is the point. In the future we will live forever. That does not depend of some decaying rotten genome of the soon to pass away temporary universe!!!

Show me your evidence.

You claim science, show me your evidence. I have shown how the bible speaks of a different past and future.

Nonsense. It's precisely right.

Only as far as the present goes. That little fishbowl has strict limits. Time you learned this.

That's nonsense, too. Some evolution causes speciation within human lifetimes. Some takes tens of millions of years.

No, saying it doesn't make it so. Show us here and now one clear example of what took millions of years? Show us precisely why the times are claimed. Ha.

Continents have never moved that fast. They move about as fast as your fingernails grow, but there is considerable variation in that, too.

That is your old age dream claim. I say they raced apart. The residual movements now are tiny leftovers.

79 AD.

That is useless, cause you and I agree there has been decay since then. The far past is all that matters in the creation debate!

Show me your evidence.

The evidence is you cannot prove there was decay beyond 4400 years ago. So don't claim there was.

I'm pointing out that all these new doctrines you've been presenting are not scriptural.

[/quote:d573e]

No, you are whining, and moaning, and not making a bible case in any way!!! You are not saying, 'there was decay in Eden, because... this verse...' Or, this heaven and earth will not pass away, as Jesus said, because....' All you do is make silly statements when it comes to bible.

 

[dad]

Define normal.

Here in our physical temporary universe, all we see is normal. In the future and the far past, the merged spiritual and physical is the norm.

Where does it say the waters above the firmament weren't clouds? What do you think rain is? Water. Where does rain come from? The sky.

What rain IS, is not the question. What was is.

I don't think your reasoning is correct in this regard. Together in what sense? Look at a map, dad, it looks like all the water is together to me! Please show me where the oceans are actually separate.

When there was a supercontinent, the land was seperated from the waters. Later, the continents seperated.

Science, fossils, evidence. Great....please point it out.

Have you never heard that some fossils were found on different continents, that were similar, and that is one reason they came up with the idea that there was a supercontinent?

How do you know that? Does it say "and Adam ate some fruit a couple days after they were planted?

Basically, yes. The garden was planted. Plants were created on day three. Man on day 6, I think. We ate the plants, and fruit of trees.

How do you know it's separate? Don't we have souls, dad? Is that not spiritual? Are we not in communication with God through prayer? Is that not spiritual? Is God not omnipresent? Can he not see and affect everything?

Do you see angels marrying women now? No. The angels exist, but seperately in the spiritual dimension. They can come here. One angel in Daniel had to fight a spiritual prince of Persia for a month or so before he got through to Daniel. There is a seperation.

And what's your evidence for this? You don't even have biblical evidence.

Yes, stars and earth and sun will last forever, not decay away. So will we. The state of decay has to end.
Also, can you prove to us here, that rocks decayed 5000 years ago?

So how does that insinuate a spiritual/physical split? You just inserted your assumptions into that. Why should I accept your interpretation over what it literally says? It could also mean nations divided.

It does, nations were divided also. So were tongues. Manty interpret that to mean the continents seperated. I think they all are right, all part of the great split.

Why do we need stars in heaven?

Why do we need them here? Ask God.

How do you know? You base all of this off of one line in scripture, out of context. Why should I accept your interpretation when you can't even demonstrate properly your belief?

No, that verse is just for the timing of the split. The different past six ways from Sunday prove something went down. Again, the different future tells us something. We are the odd man out here in the present, this is the temporary state. The bible claerly says there will be an eternal new heavens.

 

[Nooj]

Yes. The flood, long lifespans, far starlight reaching Adam, and many other things are impossible in this present physical only universe.

That's right.

The past was clearly different.

You're jumping. Just because the Flood couldn't happen today doesn't mean it could happen yesterday.

Have you heard of something called uniformitarianism?

 

[dad]

You're jumping. Just because the Flood couldn't happen today doesn't mean it could happen yesterday.

But the fact it could not happen today should tell believers in the bible something, I don't know about you. That is, that the past was different. Either that, or the bible is a pack of fairy tales. Science cannot evidence that the past, or future is the same. This means that any claims are worthless Godless assumptions!!!! You have a right to beleive them, yes, like you can believe in the tooth fairy!

[quote:1f41e]Have you heard of something called uniformitarianism?

[/quote:1f41e]
Yes, it is an attempt to explain things without the different past, and is a joke.

 

[peace4all]

You're jumping. Just because the Flood couldn't happen today doesn't mean it could happen yesterday.

But the fact it could not happen today should tell believers in the bible something, I don't know about you. That is, that the past was different. Either that, or the bible is a pack of fairy tales. Science cannot evidence that the past, or future is the same. This means that any claims are worthless Godless assumptions!!!! You have a right to beleive them, yes, like you can believe in the tooth fairy!

[quote:7276d]Have you heard of something called uniformitarianism?

Yes, it is an attempt to explain things without the different past, and is a joke.

[/quote:7276d]

Dad...

What makes the Bible, NOT a pack of fairy tales, yet makes every greek legend a pack of fairy tales? to those at the time, it was the truth, because nothing was better at explaining the truth. Of course, to this day, there are still some people, that, although proven wrong, and shown they are wrong, still believe Zeus, and Psoideon, and other greek /roman gods created earth and all that is on it.

The plausibility you give to the bible, is the same that should be given to any piece of literature from that time, claiming to be factual.

 

[moniker]

Actually Gaia produced Zeus and Poseidon. She appeared from chaos at the same time as Tartarus, and Eros. She produced Uranus, the sky, and then mated with him to produce the various titans. Fearing their uprisal Uranus forced all the titans to hide within Gaia. Cronus, one of the titans, rebelled and killed Uranus at the request of Gaia. He then produced his own children with Rhea who are the Olympic Pantheon. Fearing their betrayal, as he betrayed his own father, Cronus devoured all of them but Zeus, who was hid by Gaia. Zeus forces Cronus to vomit all of his bretheren up and then wages war on the titans and giants victoriously imprisoning them in Tartarus.

The more you know.

 

[Slevin]

Here in our physical temporary universe, all we see is normal. In the future and the far past, the merged spiritual and physical is the norm.

That's not defining normal, you're actually just showing how arbitrary the word is.

What rain IS, is not the question. What was is.

So now you're saying that rain wasn't water? :roll:

When there was a supercontinent, the land was seperated from the waters. Later, the continents seperated.

You're saying the opposite of what you were saying before. Plus it doesn't even line up with scripture. You're just relying on your own interpretation.

Have you never heard that some fossils were found on different continents, that were similar, and that is one reason they came up with the idea that there was a supercontinent?

Who's they?

Basically, yes. The garden was planted. Plants were created on day three. Man on day 6, I think. We ate the plants, and fruit of trees.

It still shows nothing about how the forces of nature were different. After your supposed split God made the sun stand still for a day, Jesus rose from the dead, Lazarus rose from the dead, people ascended to heaven, etc.

Do you see angels marrying women now? No. The angels exist, but seperately in the spiritual dimension. They can come here. One angel in Daniel had to fight a spiritual prince of Persia for a month or so before he got through to Daniel. There is a seperation.

Uh...so because angels aren't doing women there is a separation....right. But God conceiving Jesus in Mary's womb isn't separation, Jesus being God AND Man and performing miracles isn't separation, God affecting everything in the bible isn't separation. You still have no scriptural support for your belief.

Yes, stars and earth and sun will last forever, not decay away. So will we. The state of decay has to end.
Also, can you prove to us here, that rocks decayed 5000 years ago?

I'm not claiming that rocks decayed 5000 years ago. Prove that they didn't. The state of decay doesn't have to end, the universe will end and we will live in heaven.

It does, nations were divided also. So were tongues. Manty interpret that to mean the continents seperated. I think they all are right, all part of the great split.

And yet nowhere in the context does split mean "spiritual" split. Even if you are right with the lands being divided, nations being divided and tongues being divided, you still have no support to show that this applies to a spiritual division.

Why do we need them here? Ask God.

For one thing they help guided early travellers, they were also used to show signs regarding the Messiah among other things. We wont need that stuff in Heaven.

No, that verse is just for the timing of the split. The different past six ways from Sunday prove something went down. Again, the different future tells us something. We are the odd man out here in the present, this is the temporary state. The bible claerly says there will be an eternal new heavens.

How do you know there was a different past? Of course it says there will be an eternal new heavens....that's where we will go once Jesus returns. This has nothing to do with the universe we live in now. It's entirely different.

 

[dad]

[
Dad...

What makes the Bible, NOT a pack of fairy tales, yet makes every greek legend a pack of fairy tales? to those at the time, it was the truth, because nothing was better at explaining the truth.

If you think Greek tales were meant to be gospel, rather than fireside entertainment, thats up to you. I don't know or care that much about them.
As for the bible, it is written by a Friend ofmine, so I know it's true. For those who don't know Him, Jesus rose from the dead, and did many things to show He was God. The bible is choc full of fantastic prophesies that are all fulfilled, being fulfilled, or will be fulfilled. Nothing else on the planet like that. Also, millions have got healed, and helped in their lives and prayers answered, looking to the book, it's God, and promises. They work. They are real. Try it, you might like it.


[quote:9efcd]Of course, to this day, there are still some people, that, although proven wrong, and shown they are wrong, still believe Zeus, and Psoideon, and other greek /roman gods created earth and all that is on it.

[/quote:9efcd]
Like me! I think many of those chaps were based on real spirits, so what? Of course they never created the earth, etc, but there could be some grains of truth to much of it.

 

[Barbarian]

So it comes down to your unsupported belief that things were different in the past.

But without scriptural support or any evidence for such an assumption, you can surely understand why people don't believe it.

 

[dad]

So it comes down to your unsupported belief that things were different in the past.

But without scriptural support or any evidence for such an assumption, you can surely understand why people don't believe it.

There is a mountain of bible evidence both the past and future were different. I have outlined many of the differences. No decay, matter in an eternal state, trees of life with 12 kinds of fruit growing every month, transparent gold, and much more in the future. Also clear statements that this heaven and earth will pass away, and a new eternal ones be revealed. Adam also was meant to live forever, and could have. If the earth and sun were as now, they would decay away under his feet, and over his head one day, they are in the physical temporary decaying state! Clear evidence. Then the flood, it could not happen in the present. It had to be different, lifespans even, were very very different. Angels marrying our girls, waters seperating from land without deadly heat, continental seperation, trees that were planted days before we ate the fruits, and that grew in a week or so after the flood, etc etc.
Science also has nothing to saty the past was the same or different, it cannot oppose here. The evidences all around us agree, and are as expected.
You ought to do more than make little empty false statements, no?

 

[Guest]

Are you guys STILL arguing with dad? :-? 7 pages of speculation without any scientific evidence at all (which is why I stopped debating him, because he gave no SCIENTIFIC evidence, which he said he could, but never did).

IOW, . . . don't waste your time.

 

[dad]

Are you guys STILL arguing with dad? :-? 7 pages of speculation without any scientific evidence at all (which is why I stopped debating him, because he gave no SCIENTIFIC evidence, which he said he could, but never did).

IOW, . . . don't waste your time.

You misunderstand. Science is limited to the present. Beyond that fishbolw, is the future and the past, where science cannot apply. Unless you show scientific evidence it does. I don't have to cause I say it does not. Got it?

 

[Guest]

Are you guys STILL arguing with dad? :-? 7 pages of speculation without any scientific evidence at all (which is why I stopped debating him, because he gave no SCIENTIFIC evidence, which he said he could, but never did).

IOW, . . . don't waste your time.

You misunderstand. Science is limited to the present. Beyond that fishbolw, is the future and the past, where science cannot apply. Unless you show scientific evidence it does. I don't have to cause I say it does not. Got it?

Perhaps I DID misunderstand you. I thought you said that you had the Bible AND science on your side. But, if science is unable to corroborate your claims, then that's fine. You are welcome to your ideas of what you believe the past to be like.

FWIW, I also have a pretty wacky idea about the universe. Will I ever explain it? . . . . . . I don't know.

 

[3kixintehead]

If you think Greek tales were meant to be gospel, rather than fireside entertainment, thats up to you. I don't know or care that much about them.
As for the bible, it is written by a Friend ofmine, so I know it's true. For those who don't know Him, Jesus rose from the dead, and did many things to show He was God. The bible is choc full of fantastic prophesies that are all fulfilled, being fulfilled, or will be fulfilled. Nothing else on the planet like that. Also, millions have got healed, and helped in their lives and prayers answered, looking to the book, it's God, and promises. They work. They are real. Try it, you might like it.

How do you know that your Bible wasn't written as fireside entertainment? I don't know about you but I dont see this Jesus character still showing us he's around. However you can easily show the effects of the Greek Pantheon. When lightning strikes that is Zues. When a tidal wave kills thousands of people it is poseidon who is angry. Anyone can make up "Prophecies" in a book and then write a character who "fulfills" these prophecies.

 

[LittleNipper]

If you think Greek tales were meant to be gospel, rather than fireside entertainment, thats up to you. I don't know or care that much about them.
As for the bible, it is written by a Friend ofmine, so I know it's true. For those who don't know Him, Jesus rose from the dead, and did many things to show He was God. The bible is choc full of fantastic prophesies that are all fulfilled, being fulfilled, or will be fulfilled. Nothing else on the planet like that. Also, millions have got healed, and helped in their lives and prayers answered, looking to the book, it's God, and promises. They work. They are real. Try it, you might like it.

How do you know that your Bible wasn't written as fireside entertainment? I don't know about you but I dont see this Jesus character still showing us he's around. However you can easily show the effects of the Greek Pantheon. When lightning strikes that is Zues. When a tidal wave kills thousands of people it is poseidon who is angry. Anyone can make up "Prophecies" in a book and then write a character who "fulfills" these prophecies.

John 16:7-8

Nevertheless I (Jesus) tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the COMFORTER (HOLY SPIRIT) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send HIM unto you. And when HE is come, HE will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Revlations 1:3

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time at hand.

 

[dad]

Perhaps I DID misunderstand you. I thought you said that you had the Bible AND science on your side. But, if science is unable to corroborate your claims, then that's fine. You are welcome to your ideas of what you believe the past to be like.

FWIW, I also have a pretty wacky idea about the universe. Will I ever explain it? . . . . . . I don't know.

Right, science is on my side, as much as yours, something flood geology folks can't really say. You have no science to say the past was physical only like the present. And, the idea of us being seperated from the spiritual, and left as physical only fits with all evidences we do have. Cosmology, geology, fossils, observed evolution, etc.
Then, we throw in the full weight of the bible as well, to tip the balances solidly on the side of the split/young earth creation.