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Father?

for_his_glory said:
I've also researched this outside of scripture like I do many things and the only place I found anything about this was from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Now Paul on the other hand did help to establish Christian Churches in Rome as he went there to preach.
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There's a prison in Rome, near the Coliseum, where Paul and Peter were both imprisoned. History does claim that Peter was in Rome.
If I can find something quick I'll post it. This had to do with Peter being the Bishop of Rome and how other bishops looked to him for guidance.

Could you please check out 1 Peter 5:13.....
It states that Peter is writing from Babylon. It's commonly believed that he wrote this due to fear, but I can't remember everything right now. I believe he didn't want some to know he was in Rome. As it turned out, he did get killed.

I doubt the following will help much...it's not what I had in mind and cannot find it right now.

As JohnDB stated,,,in the end this is not that important.

en.wikipedia.org

Saint Peter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
wondering I agree as in the long run it doesn't matter, but if you could find that article I would like to read it. I already read the Wikipedia article, but thanks for posting it. I have read so many articles, but just never came up with any solid facts. Hopefully it will come to me eventually.
 
for_his_glory said:
wondering I agree as in the long run it doesn't matter, but if you could find that article I would like to read it. I already read the Wikipedia article, but thanks for posting it. I have read so many articles, but just never came up with any solid facts. Hopefully it will come to me eventually.
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I knew the Wkipedia article would be of no help to you since you're a learned person and that was a bit too basic.

I'm going to tell you how the history is and if I can, I'll still look for something to confirm what I'm going to tell you...however, it is correct history. I'll make it short.

After the missionary journeys, the Apostles became separated from each other...each one doing his best to spread this new belief.

By the 2nd century Christianity had grown into all the regions of the Middle East, Europe and Northern Africa. The centers of these regions were 5: Jerusalem, Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople.

These were the major region and each one had a Bishop that was in charge. These Bishops were endearingly called Papa,,,,dad.
Rome came to be the city and the Bishop that were looked to for guidance...it's known that this is because Peter was in Rome at some time and also because that's where the Empire governed.

In about the 600's, it was decided that the Bishop of Rome was to be the authority over the other bishops in a formal sense and that ONLY HE would be called Papa from that time forward.

Thus Papa became, in English, the Pope.
So, really, Peter was not the first Pope even historically speaking,,,but the CC called every Bishop of Rome, from the beginning, Pope as a sign of his authority (not Peter but the Bishops of Rome --- incl Peter).

Maybe with this information you could find the history?
I'll still try.
 
wondering thank you for that article as I appreciate this. I have read so many like this and it can make your head spin. I spent all day working on this as there are just some things I need to work out for myself in order to get my head wrapped around things. I still do not believe anyone here on earth should hold themselves in any office of the body of Christ higher than anyone else and especially calling themselves "Holy Father". Even the Apostles knew Christ was their High Priest and none of them held themselves higher than another as they knew they were servants of God and never esteemed themselves anything more than that.

Peter was never a Pope as Popes can not marry, but was the leader of the first Christian Church in Jerusalem and later traveled with his wife, 1 Corinthians 9:5, throughout the Roman provinces in Asia Minor. Peter never even went to Rome until around 50AD and died a martyr's death by the hands of the Romans in 64AD.

From 64AD - 76AD St. Linus from Tuscia, Central Tuscany was the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church in Rome. theguardian.com has a list of every Pope and it list Peter as the first Pope from 30AD-64AD which is wrong as Peter never went to Rome until around 50AD as he and Paul did help to establish the Christian churches in Rome as being authoritative through Christ, which is different then being authoritative to a Pope.

The beginning of Roman persecutions even to death that were brought against Christians was after Peter became the first leader of the Christian church in Jerusalem and was imprisoned by the Roman government and later as Christian Churches were established throughout the Roman provinces of Asia Minor was carried throughout the whole Roman Empire as what Jesus taught came against Roman paganism that still exist today.

I will continue this in my next reply as I hope this is not off topic, but vital to it.
 
John 21:18 Jesus tells Peter how Peter is going to die by crucifixion when he is old. Peter was crucified by a martyr's death, but it is said by his request he asked the Romans (crucifixion was the form of punishment by Romans) to crucify him upside down as humbled himself saying he was not worthy to die the same way Jesus was crucified.

Peter wrote his first letter while in Babylon (Rome) in response to the news of growing opposition to the believers in Asia Minor (Roman provinces), 1 Peter 1:6; 3:13-17; 4:12-19; 5:9, 10. Hostility and suspicion were mounting against Christians in the Roman Empire and they were being reviled and abused for their lifestyles and subversive talk about another kingdom.

Christianity had not yet received the official Roman ban, but the stage was being set for the persecution and martyrdom of the near future. The martyrdom of many Christians in the Romam Empire occurred over two centuries beginning with the great fire of Rome in 64AD under Nero who blamed the Christians for this fire. The ban continued until the Edict of Milan in 313AD when Roman Emperors Constantine and Licinius legalized the Christian religion.

Acts 2:14-41 Peter preaches in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost in 30AD
Acts 5:1-16 over the next few years after 30AD Peter is still in Jerusalem as the leader of the church.
Acts 5:17-42 Peter is the spokesman when he and another apostle were arrested in Jerusalem
Acts 8:25 Peter returns to Jerusalem from being in Samaria in 35AD
Acts 9:32-35 later in the year Peter goes to Lydda (Lod) in 35AD
Acts 9:36-43 Peter is called to the port of Joppa in 35AD
Acts 10:23-48 Peter travels to Caesarea towards the end of 35AD
Acts 11:18 Peter returns back to Jerusalem
Acts 12:1-19 jumps to 44AD where Peter is arrested in Jerusalem during the Passover festival, but miraculously freed from prison by an angel. Peter than goes to the home of John/Mark in Jerusalem and hands over the leadership of the Jerusalem church to James the half brother of Jesus and then flees elsewhere to safety.
Acts 15:1-21 around 49/50AD Peter addresses the assembly of believers in Jerusalem

Galatians 2:11-14 Peter meets Paul in Antioch in 50AD

1 Corinthians 1:12 It could be that when Peter fled from Jerusalem after the angel freed him from prison in 44AD he might have gone to Corinth and preached there from 44AD to 49AD. We see Paul writing to the Corinthians in 56AD some believer claim to follow Peter while others claim to follow Paul.

1 Peter 1:1 in 66AD Peter writes to the believers in Asia Minor while being in Rome

2 Peter 1:14, 15 in 67AD Peter writes again from Rome where he was imprisoned and is about to be executed.
 
for_his_glory said:
wondering thank you for that article as I appreciate this. I have read so many like this and it can make your head spin. I spent all day working on this as there are just some things I need to work out for myself in order to get my head wrapped around things. I still do not believe anyone here on earth should hold themselves in any office of the body of Christ higher than anyone else and especially calling themselves "Holy Father". Even the Apostles knew Christ was their High Priest and none of them held themselves higher than another as they knew they were servants of God and never esteemed themselves anything more than that.

Peter was never a Pope as Popes can not marry, but was the leader of the first Christian Church in Jerusalem and later traveled with his wife, 1 Corinthians 9:5, throughout the Roman provinces in Asia Minor. Peter never even went to Rome until around 50AD and died a martyr's death by the hands of the Romans in 64AD.

From 64AD - 76AD St. Linus from Tuscia, Central Tuscany was the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church in Rome. theguardian.com has a list of every Pope and it list Peter as the first Pope from 30AD-64AD which is wrong as Peter never went to Rome until around 50AD as he and Paul did help to establish the Christian churches in Rome as being authoritative through Christ, which is different then being authoritative to a Pope.

The beginning of Roman persecutions even to death that were brought against Christians was after Peter became the first leader of the Christian church in Jerusalem and was imprisoned by the Roman government and later as Christian Churches were established throughout the Roman provinces of Asia Minor was carried throughout the whole Roman Empire as what Jesus taught came against Roman paganism that still exist today.

I will continue this in my next reply as I hope this is not off topic, but vital to it.
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It refers to calling the Pope Holy Father, which is not off topic, IMO.

You're letting yourself be taught by Catholic History as THEY see it.

There was no Pope in the year 64AD...unless you mean the Bishop of Rome.

Keep searching for the history by other than the CC.
If you check Wikipedia, you'll find, for instance, that they say the first Pope was Peter and then name each succeeding Pope...even though this is wrong.

I guess it would be: History of the Papacy...but from secular sources.
 
wondering
I've been at this for over 25 years researching Catholic and non-Catholic articles. I got the list of every Pope there has been including Frances from theguardian.com but, it's to long to put the list in here. I just Googled list of all the Popes and that website came up. But, even still no matter if they are Called Emperors, Caesars, Bishops, Popes or any of the other titles given to them they are not to be called "Holy Father" and that's the bottom line.

Peter, like all those who have died a martyr's death by the hands of the Roman Empire was never associated with the Roman Catholic Church as even the bones that have been excavated under St. Peter's Basilica are only assumed to be Peter's bones as there is no proof.

Since Peter and Paul established Christian Churches in Rome and both dying a martyr's death by the hands of the Romans around the same time there could have been one of their churches where the Vatican now sits.

But anyway, the research will never end until the day I die unless Christ comes back first.:)
 
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