Feminism - Let's just do it

[joethemechanic]

So you think it's fine that women should be abused?

No I don't think it's right for anyone to be abused.

But how do you know that there is all this abuse of women going on in other parts of the world? Because you see it in the media?

I hate to tell you this but everything in the media is terribly slanted.

What about the men who are being abused in the family court system? That's happening right here at home. I've seen that with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears. Where is all the concern for those abused men?

 

[AirDancer]

But how do you know that there is all this abuse of women going on in other parts of the world? Because you see it in the media?

You are joking about this one, right, Joe?

There are judges who do not always make the best decisions, whether for men or for women. Individuals take their own chances when dealing with courts.

However, the topic of abused men can have its own thread for discussion.

 

[reba]

This lady has always been concerned about the way some courts treat some guys.

I would bet for every story HE tells about the court abuse One could be told about Her abuse.

I can tell ya one of my sister..

 

[cupid dave]

So I can tell there's some individuals who are itching to tackle this topic; to the point that "feminism" comments are crawling into things that have only tangential connections to them. So, I'm down for just having it out here.

I don't think feminism is in any way the threat that some people make it out to be. The original feminism was to allow women to be seen under the law as persons; to own property and be able to vote. Then it extended to allowing women equal protection at jobs. So far, so good. Nowadays mainstream "feminism" (nobody really calls it that anymore) seems to have calmed down considerably as women are generally treated as equals by governments, courts, and employers.

I sometimes wonder if the people most opposed to equality for women are themselves more threatened than average by the prospect. I know I'm as comfortable with a woman supervisor as a man, ditto for coworkers.

At the very least, people can hopefully distinguish between radical feminism (which should be ignored, like radicals from any demographic including religious), and women in general. Because I've seen a lot of pretty misogynistic posts on here lately.

Well, I dunno what to say. Shall someone post a long angry rant about females, perhaps?

Oh, one final request: if anyone feels the need to talk about "Marxist feminists", can you kindly explain the link between the two? Because women didn't exactly fare too well under communism, and Marx himself was a womanizer who got his housekeeper pregnant.

The feminine part is fine, it is the -ism that causes problems.

The -ism is like Racism, or Nationalism, Sexism, etc.

These are really symbols that mean open discussion and constructive criticism are not permitted.
No discussion can even begin because like Nationalism, "My country, right or wrong," the very idea of criticism will not be tolerated.
These -isms are really signs which say Edited by staff


For instance, if I tried to say that working women doubled the Labor Force for unskilled Labor since 1960, and therefore wages were essentially cut in half, whether it was good or bad, fair or unfair, the matter is so emotionally charged the Truth will never matter.

Any simple research will show that Unskilled Labor since 1960 has been so low that the 50 million men who once could pay the rent and feed a family now MUST have their wife work to make ends meet.

This has been bad for the children, and even the marriage which usually ends with a Single Mother and poverty.

Now maybe this could be examined and people would see that I am right.
But the matter is so charged that we can not discuss how a raise in Minimum Wage could fix things.

 

[cupid dave]

I'm not opposed feminism, as in women having equal rights and opportunity for employment and careers. What's wrong with it? (Being a woman myself. Hehe.)

It irks me just a little bit when I see others acting like we're still being oppressed, though and claim that businesses are less likely to hire women. (Which may be true, but I rather doubt it as there are female employees, like, just about everywhere.)
That said, I believe some countries, like Saudi Arabia, do still treat women as inferior. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) So I can understand if they were talking about other countries.

Yes, the opportunities and acceptance of women in general belies a lot of pretense that women need even more of a running start against the men.

But the growth of the Single Mother Family has been a symptom of this supposed equality between the men and women, forgetting the kids, who are raised without fathers and experience all sorts of abusive situations especially criminal behavior and incarcerations.

The working woman is no longer a wife, and the men are not paying the bills for the privilege of doing what a women says in the house and usually at work, too.

The price of this weird "equality" has been at the expense of the Traditional Family

I mean, this whole thing has been a Social Experiment, but no one wants tobjective evaluate the final evidence.

 

[evenifigoalone]

A woman shouldn't let her job make her abandon her family--I agree. The same is true for a man. The key is responsibility and priorities.


Interestingly, my family fell apart after my mother left her career for the sake of spending more time with her family.
I'm not saying that that caused it, or that she was in the wrong. No. I'm glad she cared about us enough to abandon her career, despite almost everyone telling her it would be a bad move.



Now, you're saying that women being concerned with careers is the cause? Wouldn't that mean that the woman is the one to walk out, and not the man?

A lot of divorce cases happen due to the father's lack of responsibility and being unfaithful to their wife and family.
That was what happened in my parent's case.


I think there are a lot of factors going into this and you can't pin it on woman being able to have careers.

 

[joethemechanic]

My first experience with family court was a hearing to establish an order of support for me to pay for my daughter. The government provided everything my ex needed including legal council. I had to provide my own attorney.

When I asked about an order of visitation, I was told I had to hire my own attorney.

When she violated the visitation and I went to the court they told me "You have to hire your own attorney".

When she requested an increase in support, the domestic relations court handled everything for her, I had to hire my own attorney,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[joethemechanic]

Yes but your father has to pay for his legal representation.

 

[farouk]

Yes but your father has to pay for his legal representation.

joe:

Are you vulnerable?

AirDancer has talked to you about the danger of being driven by bitterness.

 

[evenifigoalone]

That may be. I don't know much about the laws concerning that. They may even differ from state to state.
I live in GA, which is a pretty conservative state. Anybody know about the laws concerning that here? Or is it a federal law?

 

[reba]

Yes, the opportunities and acceptance of women in general belies a lot of pretense that women need even more of a running start against the men.

But the growth of the Single Mother Family has been a symptom of this supposed equality between the men and women, forgetting the kids, who are raised without fathers and experience all sorts of abusive situations especially criminal behavior and incarcerations.

The working woman is no longer a wife, and the men are not paying the bills for the privilege of doing what a women says in the house and usually at work, too.

The price of this weird "equality" has been at the expense of the Traditional Family

I mean, this whole thing has been a Social Experiment, but no one wants tobjective evaluate the final evidence.

I agree dave... the family has suffered ...

about 1980 Mary's X had taken off with the younger girl, Mary was left with one son... she had to support him X had split the state... She went to truck driving school the other drivers hassled her awful
Taking a mans job etc She finely replied with words that shut them up " I'll tell ya what you marry me ,support me and my son i'll quit!

What is one to do when the other takes off... One parent (not getting support from the other) has to be able to make more monies to cover things like child care.... way to often the children are left with the cheapest care possible..

 

[evenifigoalone]

What is one to do when the other takes off... One parent (not getting support from the other) has to be able to make more monies to cover things like child care.... way to often the children are left with the cheapest care possible..

I remember my mom had some trouble with babysitters. One or two began asking for more than she could afford, and another one we stopped using because their kids were mean to me.



Sorry if I'm getting too off-topic. ^^; This doesn't have much to do with the subject of this thread. I just like to talk a lot.

 

[cupid dave]

I agree dave... the family has suffered ...

about 1980 Mary's X had taken off with the younger girl, Mary was left with one son... she had to support him X had split the state... She went to truck driving school the other drivers hassled her awful
Taking a mans job etc She finely replied with words that shut them up " I'll tell ya what you marry me ,support me and my son i'll quit!

What is one to do when the other takes off... One parent (not getting support from the other) has to be able to make more monies to cover things like child care.... way to often the children are left with the cheapest care possible..

The situation is more dire than the No Fault Laws have allowed easy walk away from responsibility, or for women to "get their half," and not put up with louse.
That would be bad enough.

But in America we abort one third of all pregnancies, birth one tjird as illegitimate babies, and bring into the world one third of the babies who will be raised by a traditional mother/father set of parents.

The result of this New Life Style since the feminist revolution of 1960 has half the families in America raising kids without a father and many without a mother either.

The cost of Welfare now equals the Military Budget.
70% of all violent Crime is caused by people who have been raised in Single Mother Families.

Now, remember, I am not blaming single women, just saying...
Sure, the situation just ends with mothers without men.

The blame, if we waste time on that, is us all.
We are the village raising the next generation.

What ought we do about it?

 

[cupid dave]

Yes but your father has to pay for his legal representation.

Before the separation, did you have a Wife, like back in the day?
Were you paying for a wife before the divorce, and getting what you paid for?

Men today complain that they do not get the wife, but they get the same expectations from the woman they live with.
The income may increase when the wife works.
But so do the bills.

The Bills usually are basically centered around the home.
The shopping which so many women feel requires they do so, until they drop, because, after all, now they are spending their own money, too, and yours.

The women feel that their money is theirs, and so is yours, as was always the case when they stayed home.
This does not apply always with educated people where both are making well above the Middle Class and /or professional incomes,... unless she earns way more.

But we must remember that the reality is that unskilled married people are working hard and paid low salaries that are more difficult to get along on.
The spending situation is really an issue, especially about who is the boss when it comes to the spending and on what.
Working women feel way more entitled to a say, almost as if resenting the husband doesn't make enough that they can keep their own money totally.

How did the spending break down when both salaries were mixed together?
Were you driving that Caddy or BMW while she did without?

 

[DarkHorseRising]

When I was a kid if a girl or woman was unmarried and pregnant it was a terribly shameful thing. Now more than half of all babies are born to unwed mothers.

Who says it still isn't shameful? Morality doesn't change just because something becomes common. What you're neglecting to mention is that the shame was borne almost entirely by the woman. The man seldom lost his reputation for fornication; only the woman bore that shame.

It's not the twenties anymore, they can vote, get jobs, lead a household, and do anything a man can do legally.

Which is probably why feminism is seldom heard about anymore except when it's focused on third world countries, stopping women from being stoned to death for immodesty or sold as sex slaves.

Today's feminist who stands up to say that they fight for equality for women is sort of like someone standing up saying they are fighting to make sure every home in America has electricity. While there are a tiny number of exceptions, the goal has already been accomplished.

As I mentioned above, they're fighting for that in third world countries.

All they know is what they've been told by their cultural marxist college professors.

I don't have any cultural marxist professors though! You just keep saying that because it's unfalsifiable and enables you to dismiss my argument without actually debating it.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Dark Horse Rising,

A few questions:

Are you male or female?

What is your age?

Are you currently attending college or university?

Male, 20's, attending university for sciences (Zoology & Physics; I've taken practically nothing outside those disciplines.)

Any particular reason you ask?

 

[DarkHorseRising]

I've seen more than one reference to the divorce rate; and although I presently lack any scientific study, I would wager that for every one woman who cheats on her husband, there's two men who do so to their wives. Another big reason, mentioned previously, is that women in abusive relationships are able to leave without being majorly stigmatized. A century ago, if your husband was violent you kind of had to accept that because people simply didn't talk about it.

 

[reba]

Before the separation, did you have a Wife, like back in the day?
Were you paying for a wife before the divorce, and getting what you paid for?

Men today complain that they do not get the wife, but they get the same expectations from the woman they live with.
The income may increase when the wife works.
But so do the bills.

The Bills usually are basically centered around the home.
The shopping which so many women feel requires they do so, until they drop, because, after all, now they are spending their own money, too, and yours.

The women feel that their money is theirs, and so is yours, as was always the case when they stayed home.
This does not apply always with educated people where both are making well above the Middle Class and /or professional incomes,... unless she earns way more.

But we must remember that the reality is that unskilled married people are working hard and paid low salaries that are more difficult to get along on.
The spending situation is really an issue, especially about who is the boss when it comes to the spending and on what.
Working women feel way more entitled to a say, almost as if resenting the husband doesn't make enough that they can keep their own money totally.

How did the spending break down when both salaries were mixed together?
Were you driving that Caddy or BMW while she did without?

You are making a lot of generalizations.... I am a woman i don't like shopping. Our monies are joint. You are way off base....

I tried working out side home when the kids were little it didnt work .... He could make more $$ so i stayed home.. later on i worked out side home..... Bills, yup bills, 57 vettes cost $$$ as do GTXs and camaros 56 ford pickups as do his kids (They were his as much as mine ). 32 fords ..bowling TVs Dirt bikes ( i got the old one ) Fishing gear..... Women are not the only ones who can run up bills... people run up bills mostly selfish dumb people... Most of us fit that description ever so often..

Working women feel way more entitled to a say, almost as if resenting the husband doesn't make enough that they can keep their own money totally.

I dont know one woman who feels that way. But then i am 65 and the world is different.... What a bad attitude on women... What a shame i find yours and Joes thoughts so very sad....

 

[reba]

I've seen more than one reference to the divorce rate; and although I presently lack any scientific study, I would wager that for every one woman who cheats on her husband, there's two men who do so to their wives. Another big reason, mentioned previously, is that women in abusive relationships are able to leave without being majorly stigmatized. A century ago, if your husband was violent you kind of had to accept that because people simply didn't talk about it.

A century ago, if your husband was violent you kind of had to accept that because people simply didn't talk about it

wasn't that long ago

 

[DarkHorseRising]

I can place the destruction of the American Family squarely on the shoulders of the feminists

Malarky. You think men don't cheat, abuse drugs or alcohol, leave their families, have casual random sex leading to pregnancy, or suddenly decide they're homosexual?

Newsflash: Both women and men do these things ALL THE TIME. Both genders are guilty of this. But you seem to be utterly silent on all that men have done to destroy family life while focusing 100% of your attention and blame on women.