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[_ Old Earth _] Fire breathing dinosaurs

Barbarian observes:
Boiling hot chemicals. But not fire. And that is related to other chemicals and structures found in less spectacular beetles. The problem is that vertebrates don't have any structures from which even very hot chemical jets could evolve.

For something like that to appear, there has to be a chain of intermediate forms that would at worst be harmless to the organism. And there just isn't a way. Humans, who use hands for almost everything, would be well-served by a second pair of them. But there's no path to evolve a second set of limbs.

Roro1972 said:
then Giraffes should not exist, but they do.
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And all sorts of intermediate giraffoids have existed. Some of them still exist.

what intermediate forms let to a long neck and a heavy duty heart and a special heart valve
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From short to longest:
Pronghorn antelopes, okapis, Sivatherium (fossil), modern giraffes. Turns out neck length in giraffes is allometric. That is, an increase in absolute size produces a relative increase in neck length. There are a lot of fossil intermediates I haven't cited. Would you like to learn about some of them?

Giraffes have all the same structures you do. For example, the one-way valves in the blood vessels of your legs are much more robust than they are in quadrupeds of the same mass as you. Because they have to be, in order to pump blood higher than it would have to go in a quadruped. But you have the same valves, just bigger ones. Giraffes have the same adaptations you do, but more robust.

And they are less so, in intermediate forms like the Okapi.
 
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 
Cygnus said:
Kidding..NO. Dead serious. All they need is an ignition source. In fact you can ignite a cows burp.
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Fire produces massive amount of heat . Nevermind that with ch4 it does build up fumes and needs to be discharged.you would have ignite it outside of the mouth and away from the eyes.
 
Jim Parker said:
That is part of a passage that starts at Ch 38 in which God makes it very clear to Job that what God does is beyond Job's understanding.
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calvin here,
I'm very glad you brought this point up.
While a lot of the book is the unwise utterances of Job's friends and can be dismissed as waffle, the dialogue of the Lord is His word.
 
Hi guys calvin here,
A few thoughts on past comment. There is a reptile alive today that also qualifies as a vertebrate.
The spitting cobra squirts venom from forward facing holes in its fangs.
So there exists a precedent in nature for a reptile squirting a liquid from its mouth. (not flammable, but highly toxic.)
Surly it would be feasible and possible for a large dinosaur or other large beast to have existed that could quirt or spit white phosphorus? White phosphorus is highly toxic, but so is the cobra's venom. White phosphorus will spontaneous combust in air.
In Job 41:21, I think the reference to fire here could pretty well be satisfied by the use of phosphorus.
Just a few thoughts of mine
 
calvin said:
Hi guys calvin here,
A few thoughts on past comment. There is a reptile alive today that also qualifies as a vertebrate.
The spitting cobra squirts venom from forward facing holes in its fangs.
So there exists a precedent in nature for a reptile squirting a liquid from its mouth. (not flammable, but highly toxic.)
Surly it would be feasible and possible for a large dinosaur or other large beast to have existed that could quirt or spit white phosphorus? White phosphorus is highly toxic, but so is the cobra's venom. White phosphorus will spontaneous combust in air.
In Job 41:21, I think the reference to fire here could pretty well be satisfied by the use of phosphorus.
Just a few thoughts of mine
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wiley pete is a chemical burn not the type of fire they are saying.
 
calvin said:
calvin here,
I'm very glad you brought this point up.
While a lot of the book is the unwise utterances of Job's friends and can be dismissed as waffle, the dialogue of the Lord is His word.
Click to expand...
Yes. And the Lord cannot use examples from the widely held mythology of man to get His point across if He so chooses.


iakov the fool


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calvin said:
A few thoughts on past comment. There is a reptile alive today that also qualifies as a vertebrate.
The spitting cobra squirts venom from forward facing holes in its fangs.
So there exists a precedent in nature for a reptile squirting a liquid from its mouth. (not flammable, but highly toxic.)
Surly it would be feasible and possible for a large dinosaur or other large beast to have existed that could quirt or spit white phosphorus? White phosphorus is highly toxic, but so is the cobra's venom. White phosphorus will spontaneous combust in air.
In Job 41:21, I think the reference to fire here could pretty well be satisfied by the use of phosphorus.
Just a few thoughts of mine
Click to expand...

The problem is not so much that it's toxic, as that it's highly reactive. So no way to hold in in the body. Oxygen would ignite it, even in tissue fluid.
 
turnorburn said:
The Lord could provide that... by grinding the teeth together it would act like striking flint?
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you realize that bone will break apart in a fire if its in there long enough. flames from a simple lighter will measure 500f plus. I have use my ir temp probe on a lighter. some of these go higher up to 1000f, an yes the ones I use to solder will also be even higher.
 
jasonc said:
you realize that bone will break apart in a fire if its in there long enough. flames from a simple lighter will measure 500f plus. I have use my ir temp probe on a lighter. some of these go higher up to 1000f, an yes the ones I use to solder will also be even higher.
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and chickens use gravel to help in they're digestion.. maybe dragons used a similar tool?
 
turnorburn said:
and chickens use gravel to help in they're digestion.. maybe dragons used a similar tool?
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Uhm no,they use a gizzard .gizzardS are in ducks,chicken ,turkey and are edible.my wife eats chicken gizzard often.it's sold localy.the point you are missing is the very tip of his mouth would be beyond normal temperature of boiling water.the chemistry of this would make it way different then a dinosaur . it must breathe elsewhere and or hold its breathe while discharging or use a large storage means of methane with periodic discharges as that tends to explode if it's not stored and vented right.

This is why dumps have those perpetual flames at night ,it's to leach the methane .
 
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