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First Clement of Rome 

turnorburn said:
Nearest i came was reading something by Augustine i didn't care much for it..
Click to expand...
So why did you comment about Clement as being the first Pope (which isnt true) ?

BTW, Clement and Augustine are very different reads. Give it a shot, I think you'll enjoy it.
 
i commented because i looked him up and found this..

Clement of Rome was the first Apostolic Father of the church—a title given to Christian leaders who personally knew the apostles. He was also one of the earliest popes, and the patron saint of mariners.

https://overviewbible.com/clement-of-rome/

i have to apologize.. i know what Antiipas knew so that kind of puts me out of the running..

You guys have a great day..
 
StoveBolts said:
So why did you comment about Clement as being the first Pope (which isnt true) ?

BTW, Clement and Augustine are very different reads. Give it a shot, I think you'll enjoy it.
Click to expand...


I read about Polycarp in Foxes book of martyrs.

Pretty amazing.


I enjoyed the Didache that was posted by
Jim Parker.



JLB
 
turnorburn said:
i commented because i looked him up and found this..

Clement of Rome was the first Apostolic Father of the church—a title given to Christian leaders who personally knew the apostles. He was also one of the earliest popes, and the patron saint of mariners.

https://overviewbible.com/clement-of-rome/

i have to apologize.. i know what Antiipas knew so that kind of puts me out of the running..

You guys have a great day..
Click to expand...
That was a great article! I really liked how they came to the same conclusion I did!

They wrote:
Clement of Rome played an integral role in reuniting the church with its rightful leaders, putting them back on track at a time when persecution could have easily crushed them. As a result of the church’s unity, Christianity continued to thrive despite oppression from the most powerful empire in the world.

Clement Amazes me with his understanding and usage of the O.T.
 
StoveBolts said:
From what I understand through Orthodoxy, and I am a bit foggy, so please dont quote me... but in the early church, there were many Popes as there are today. (The Orthodox have their Popes). The word did not conjure the primacy of Rome as it has for the past thousand years.
Click to expand...
Back at this time, each important region had its Bishop. There were 5 important regions: Alexandria,, Antioch, Jerusalem, Rome, Constantinople.

These 5 major Bishops were affectionately called Papa...daddy or pops. However the official title of Pope as we know it today was not official till, I believe 800 AD.

Looked for links, but I can't find any...
 
JLB said:
I read about Polycarp in Foxes book of martyrs.

Pretty amazing.


I enjoyed the Didache that was posted by
Jim Parker.



JLB
Click to expand...
I was trying to get him to do a class on the Apostolic Fathers. He was concerned that protestants would rebel too hard by the mention of them.

I consider myself a restorationist and will put the Apostolic Fathers above any other commentaries, thoughts or ideas I have.
 
wondering said:
Back at this time, each important region had its Bishop. There were 5 important regions: Alexandria,, Antioch, Jerusalem, Rome, Constantinople.

These 5 major Bishops were affectionately called Papa...daddy or pops. However the official title of Pope as we know it today was not official till, I believe 800 AD.

Looked for links, but I can't find any...
Click to expand...
I've read similar. It's sad these great men, and the great title of Pope has been torn down and drug through the mud so vehemently through the years. And I certainly hope we can bypass those horrible years and see these great men and what they wrote with new eyes.
 
turnorburn said:
i commented because i looked him up and found this..

Clement of Rome was the first Apostolic Father of the church—a title given to Christian leaders who personally knew the apostles. He was also one of the earliest popes, and the patron saint of mariners.

https://overviewbible.com/clement-of-rome/

i have to apologize.. i know what Antiipas knew so that kind of puts me out of the running..

You guys have a great day..
Click to expand...
The Catholic church has its list of popes....they like to go back and say that Peter was the first pope. This is not historically correct although I do understand why they do this and I'm kind of tired of explaining it.

Also, I'd like to say that I've mentioned the ECF many times and it seems to me that they are not respected...I include you Turnorburn...who once told me they're not inspired.

Who would we rather listen to?
Someone who sat at the feet of John the Apostle...or some modern guy on YouTube???

We should all familiarize ourselves with the ECF,,,who knew what the early theologians believed.

As to Augustine...I don't blame you. He changed Christianity a lot and I don't care for him either. But he's post-Nicene...try the PRE Nicene fathers.

I DO agree with StoveBolts that you will like them.
They all died a martyr's death.
 
StoveBolts said:
I was trying to get him to do a class on the Apostolic Fathers. He was concerned that protestants would rebel too hard by the mention of them.

I consider myself a restorationist and will put the Apostolic Fathers above any other commentaries, thoughts or ideas I have.
Click to expand...
AMEN to that!
I'm not sure what a restorationist is except for the word RESTORE,,,but I'm with you!!

I do know that some Protestant churches are beginning to study church history, which absolutely includes the ECF.
 
StoveBolts said:
I've read similar. It's sad these great men, and the great title of Pope has been torn down and drug through the mud so vehemently through the years. And I certainly hope we can bypass those horrible years and see these great men and what they wrote with new eyes.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I believe the Reformation was necessary because the universal, or cc, had gone so astray.

But it created many problems since what we have today is NOT what the ECF believed, and I, like yourself, tend to trust them more. So instead of running to Greek lexicons, which are not of much help anyway unless one understands Greek, I'd rather find out whey THEY believed.
 
I mean, could we imagine...
Ignatius of Antioch studied with John the Apostle!

We should be reading everything he said.
Some will say we have the bible...
But we come up with different ideas and concepts, so we should at least know what he, and others like him believed.

End of speech...
 
wondering said:
I mean, could we imagine...
Ignatius of Antioch studied with John the Apostle!

We should be reading everything he said.
Some will say we have the bible...
But we come up with different ideas and concepts, so we should at least know what he, and others like him believed.

End of speech...
Click to expand...
Yes, most dont think like that. These ECF's sat at the feet of an Apostle and learned directly from them.

Most dont understand that being a Christian really means being a deciple. Modern Christianity focuses on believing and accepting Jesus as your savior to be saved from the fiery pits of hell. That is so far from what a deciple is.

John wrote we ought to walk as Jesus walked. That means we do what Jesus did. The ECF's were an example of decipleship. It is so much more than saying a prayer, getting dunked in water, having the right theological argument down and going to church every Sunday.
 
StoveBolts said:
Yes, but the thread is about Clement of Rome and what he wrote to the church in Corinth.
What is your favorite quote? If you havent read it, I would highly recomend it. It's one of my favorites among the Apostolic Fathers.
Click to expand...
what makes him your favorite?
 
wondering said:
Back at this time, each important region had its Bishop. There were 5 important regions: Alexandria,, Antioch, Jerusalem, Rome, Constantinople.

These 5 major Bishops were affectionately called Papa...daddy or pops. However the official title of Pope as we know it today was not official till, I believe 800 AD.

Looked for links, but I can't find any...
Click to expand...

Interesting thread.

Just FYI, which certainly important in the latter history of the early Church, Constantinople was not an Apostolic see.
 
StoveBolts said:
John wrote we ought to walk as Jesus walked. That means we do what Jesus did. The ECF's were an example of decipleship. It is so much more than saying a prayer, getting dunked in water, having the right theological argument down and going to church every Sunday.
Click to expand...
i agree do we as the church today know how to decipleship? i mean in reality our sunday school classes should have a big role in this..yes it comes from the pulpit also but the pastor has a full time job feeding the sheep. lets face it in today world that is a task . some are just there for milk and cookies not steak and potatoes
 
ezra said:
i agree do we as the church today know how to decipleship? i mean in reality our sunday school classes should have a big role in this..yes it comes from the pulpit also but the pastor has a full time job feeding the sheep. lets face it in today world that is a task . some are just there for milk and cookies not steak and potatoes
Click to expand...
The sad part is this. Many people think discipleship is bringing somebody to that hallelujah moment, teaching them all the right church doctrines and that's it. However, that's not how the early church understood it. They understood it to mean we try to become that which we look up to. In other words, we want to be like Jesus. It's sad, but you don't hear many talking about what Jesus did.
 
StoveBolts said:
The sad part is this. Many people think discipleship is bringing somebody to that hallelujah moment, teaching them all the right church doctrines and that's it. However, that's not how the early church understood it. They understood it to mean we try to become that which we look up to. In other words, we want to be like Jesus. It's sad, but you don't hear many talking about what Jesus did.
Click to expand...
no and that is why i asked do we . still not sure we fully understand how to. this morning i get up have a priv message from a lady saying i got saved pray for me i need wisdom wow.. .it was way back when she asked all kinds questions i answered them best i could her reply i just can not do it.. i am asking her for more info. to many say they got saved but only from the head not heart pray for judy
 
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