Foreknowledge and Time

[Whatever]

1Peter 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

I've been thinking of this. People will use this verse to say that God elects people based on His foreknowledge. And by this, all that I have heard, say that since God is outside of time He is capable of looking ahead into time and see who will accept Christ and that is what Peter means by foreknowledge.

This seems to have implications of how they view what time itself is.

I just brushed up on Open Theism where some say that God cannot look forward into time because it doesn't exist till it happens. That's what they mean by Open Theism - that the future is open. God might have a good idea of what is going to happen but that is it.
I don't hold to it by the way.

I believe the Calvinist view is that God exhaustively knows the future because He has foreordained all that comes to pass. He doesn't have to look into the future to find out what is going to happen, He has already ordained it.
I'm not sure what this means for time itself. I'm suspicious that all there is the now. The past is gone and the future just comes as it happens. So no time traveling to the past.

 

[electedbyHim]

1Peter 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

I've been thinking of this. People will use this verse to say that God elects people based on His foreknowledge. And by this, all that I have heard, say that since God is outside of time He is capable of looking ahead into time and see who will accept Christ and that is what Peter means by foreknowledge.

This seems to have implications of how they view what time itself is.

I just brushed up on Open Theism where some say that God cannot look forward into time because it doesn't exist till it happens. That's what they mean by Open Theism - that the future is open. God might have a good idea of what is going to happen but that is it.
I don't hold to it by the way.

I believe the Calvinist view is that God exhaustively knows the future because He has foreordained all that comes to pass. He doesn't have to look into the future to find out what is going to happen, He has already ordained it.
I'm not sure what this means for time itself. I'm suspicious that all there is the now. The past is gone and the future just comes as it happens. So no time traveling to the past.

I believe the Calvinist view is that God exhaustively knows the future because He has foreordained all that comes to pass. He doesn't have to look into the future to find out what is going to happen, He has already ordained it.
I'm not sure what this means for time itself. I'm suspicious that all there is the now. The past is gone and the future just comes as it happens. So no time traveling to the past.

This is what the Bible teaches.

 

[tdidymas]

1Peter 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

I've been thinking of this. People will use this verse to say that God elects people based on His foreknowledge. And by this, all that I have heard, say that since God is outside of time He is capable of looking ahead into time and see who will accept Christ and that is what Peter means by foreknowledge.

This seems to have implications of how they view what time itself is.

I just brushed up on Open Theism where some say that God cannot look forward into time because it doesn't exist till it happens. That's what they mean by Open Theism - that the future is open. God might have a good idea of what is going to happen but that is it.
I don't hold to it by the way.

I believe the Calvinist view is that God exhaustively knows the future because He has foreordained all that comes to pass. He doesn't have to look into the future to find out what is going to happen, He has already ordained it.
I'm not sure what this means for time itself. I'm suspicious that all there is the now. The past is gone and the future just comes as it happens. So no time traveling to the past.

Time always moves forward, no matter where you are or what you're doing. In the formula for general relativity time can vary, but there is no such thing as negative time. All the sci-fi movies imagining time travel is pure fiction. Even in heaven time moves forward. Consider that if there is something that happens, it is happening in time. Therefore even God operates in time. It might be some different time frame or not like time as we know it. But it is time nonetheless. For God to have planned everything "before the foundation of the world" tells us that there was time before creation.

Now, God says He "knows the end from the beginning." Therefore, Open Theism is unbiblical, since they think that God guesses the future, rather than knows it. Open Theism also assumes that God doesn't know people, and claims that He doesn't know what someone will do until they do it. Nonsense! "All things are open and laid bare to Him whom we must give account." So God knows us better than we know ourselves. Whenever He puts us in a situation that tests our faith, it is for our benefit, not His. Our faith is tested so that we will know where we stand.

So then, when the Bible says "according to His foreknowledge," it is much more than mere cognitive understanding. God foreordains the future, so says the Bible. "All my days were ordained, even before there was one of them" - Ps. 136; "God causes all things to work together for our good..." - Rom. 8:28. The term "knowledge" in the Bible, both the OT and NT has various meanings/nuances, depending on the context. In some cases, it means having sex. In some cases, it means cognitive understanding, and in some cases it means determination.

In Rom. 8:29 "For whom He foreknew" is more than what we think of as knowing. It doesn't mean "foresaw". Jesus will say to some "I never knew you" - not meaning that He was unaware of them, but rather that He chose to not know them, He chose to not love them as He would love sons and daughters. So since God foreordains the future, He determines who He choses to know, love, elect, predestine, and save. Therefore "foreknew" means "foreordained" and "foreloved."

Finally, consider this: if God elects people based on their future choices, then election, and therefore grace, is merited by a person's future choices. This is contrary to the apostle Paul's teaching that grace and justification is free. It means that even our faith is the gift of God. He is the one to be credited with our salvation, not us. There is no boasting of "I chose rightly" before God.

Consider that if my faith originated from me (and not from God), I have something to boast about. I could say in the day of judgment "I deserve heaven because I believe." But if my faith is the gift of God, I can't boast of anything. I can only say "thank You, God, for choosing me!" Isn't this the essence of what Paul means in Eph. 2:8-10?

 

[hawkman]

Therefore even God operates in time.

I would think God does operate in our earthly time . Time is for our benefit or is it ? When you think about it there is only day time and night time and everything is turning to dust .

Those that say God is outside our time tell me why He would need to be outside our time .

It might be some different time frame or not like time as we know it. But it is time nonetheless.

You seem to be all in on God being restrained by time , not sure what kind of time though but you say it is time .

For God to have planned everything "before the foundation of the world" tells us that there was time before creation.

God was before creation . What would God need time for ? Measured how exactly ?

 

[Marilyn C]

His Omnipresence – “The Beginning & the End.”

Christ commenced & will conclude all time periods. He conceived the duration of the ages & will yet crown & consummate the ages to come. Everything is under His control. And no event came before the exercise of His will & none will come after His counsel. (1 Cor. 15: 28)

In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; therefore outside of Christ there is no wider, broader, deeper, higher, greater or vaster measure or authority known. (Col. 2: 9 & 10)

 

[Whatever]

Those that say God is outside our time tell me why He would need to be outside our time .

They would use verses like:
2Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Then use scientific terms like "our space, time, continuum."
In physics, spacetime, also called the space-time continuum, is a mathematical model that fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single four-dimensional continuum.

I would even have to say that if God created our universe of time and space, He must in some way be outside of it. We call it the Creator - creation distinction.