Forgiveness of sins

[Wrg1405]

As Christians (those of us who have placed our faith in Jesus) do we need to confess our sins (works of the flesh or unbelief) in order to be forgiven?

1 John 1:9-10
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

Or do we thank God that our sins have been forgiven?

1 John 2:12

I am writing to you who are God’s children because your sins have been forgiven through Jesus.

My understanding of 1 John 1:9-10 was written to refute Gnostism that had infiltrated the church. No need to confess sin, Jesus did not rise and higher spiritual knowledge saves and not Jesus (simplistic emphasis from me)

So in 1 John 2:12 we see the word have been forgiven.

Is have aorist (past tense) all of our sins were nailed to the cross therefore forgiven before committed?

So is confession conditional for forgiveness or to ensure a continual relationship with God.

I have four kids and the most amazing wife. I know when my kids get it wrong. Truth is before they tell me I have already forgiven them but I want them to talk to me and tell me about it. It's a relational issue and even if they don't talk to me I have still forgiven them. My wife is the same with me. Funny thing is with my wife if she has upset me I don't want her to ask for forgiveness as I have already forgiven her bit I do ask God to show me if I'm wrong and vice versa.

So over to you my friends. Confession for forgiveness or for relational restoration.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

As Christians (those of us who have placed our faith in Jesus) do we need to confess our sins (works of the flesh or unbelief) in order to be forgiven?

1 John 1:9-10
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

Or do we thank God that our sins have been forgiven?

1 John 2:12

I am writing to you who are God’s children because your sins have been forgiven through Jesus.

My understanding of 1 John 1:9-10 was written to refute Gnostism that had infiltrated the church. No need to confess sin, Jesus did not rise and higher spiritual knowledge saves and not Jesus (simplistic emphasis from me)

So in 1 John 2:12 we see the word have been forgiven.

Is have aorist (past tense) all of our sins were nailed to the cross therefore forgiven before committed?

So is confession conditional for forgiveness or to ensure a continual relationship with God.

I have four kids and the most amazing wife. I know when my kids get it wrong. Truth is before they tell me I have already forgiven them but I want them to talk to me and tell me about it. It's a relational issue and even if they don't talk to me I have still forgiven them. My wife is the same with me. Funny thing is with my wife if she has upset me I don't want her to ask for forgiveness as I have already forgiven her bit I do ask God to show me if I'm wrong and vice versa.

So over to you my friends. Confession for forgiveness or for relational restoration.

Also we have found that, Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.


http://biblehub.com/proverbs/28-13.htm

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-16.htm

 

[GodsGrace]

As Christians (those of us who have placed our faith in Jesus) do we need to confess our sins (works of the flesh or unbelief) in order to be forgiven?

1 John 1:9-10
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

Or do we thank God that our sins have been forgiven?

1 John 2:12

I am writing to you who are God’s children because your sins have been forgiven through Jesus.

My understanding of 1 John 1:9-10 was written to refute Gnostism that had infiltrated the church. No need to confess sin, Jesus did not rise and higher spiritual knowledge saves and not Jesus (simplistic emphasis from me)

So in 1 John 2:12 we see the word have been forgiven.

Is have aorist (past tense) all of our sins were nailed to the cross therefore forgiven before committed?

So is confession conditional for forgiveness or to ensure a continual relationship with God.

I have four kids and the most amazing wife. I know when my kids get it wrong. Truth is before they tell me I have already forgiven them but I want them to talk to me and tell me about it. It's a relational issue and even if they don't talk to me I have still forgiven them. My wife is the same with me. Funny thing is with my wife if she has upset me I don't want her to ask for forgiveness as I have already forgiven her bit I do ask God to show me if I'm wrong and vice versa.

So over to you my friends. Confession for forgiveness or for relational restoration.

Wrg
If your wife has upset you and wants to ask for forgiveness, let her ask it - for HER sake.

We are also to ask for forgiveness. If we are in God's hands, as born again believers, our sins are already forgiven. Jesus died for all sins that were ever committed or ever would be in the future.

From my understanding of the scriptures, confession is necessary for forgiveness of sins. I understand it to be relational. It's the same with forgiveness. We don't really understand why we have to forgive people. It hinders God somehow if we don't. We don't really understand how asking for forgiveness could help - we just know we have to. Some will say that it's for our own benefit, but that's a bit to social for me. Too psychological. Although that will certainly be part of it.

What about John 20:23? John was with Jesus and he's writing that Jesus told the Apostles to forgive sin. In order to forgive, one must ask and confess. If you want to get into confession we can, but it's long.
Let's just say that we're to confess to each other, and also to God. Just as we're to forgive one another just as God forgives us.

Confessing makes us aware that we've sinned. It inspires sorrow. If there is no sorrow, there is no forgiveness.
Confessing shows that we understand God is superior to us, that we're to depend on Him, that we're in His hands. It inspires humility. Blessed are the humble. Mathew 5:5 (meek=humble).

So yes, it's relational. It's for reconciliation with God.

Wondering

 

[Wrg1405]

Wrg
If your wife has upset you and wants to ask for forgiveness, let her ask it - for HER sake.

We are also to ask for forgiveness. If we are in God's hands, as born again believers, our sins are already forgiven. Jesus died for all sins that were ever committed or ever would be in the future.

From my understanding of the scriptures, confession is necessary for forgiveness of sins. I understand it to be relational. It's the same with forgiveness. We don't really understand why we have to forgive people. It hinders God somehow if we don't. We don't really understand how asking for forgiveness could help - we just know we have to. Some will say that it's for our own benefit, but that's a bit to social for me. Too psychological. Although that will certainly be part of it.

What about John 20:23? John was with Jesus and he's writing that Jesus told the Apostles to forgive sin. In order to forgive, one must ask and confess. If you want to get into confession we can, but it's long.
Let's just say that we're to confess to each other, and also to God. Just as we're to forgive one another just as God forgives us.

Confessing makes us aware that we've sinned. It inspires sorrow. If there is no sorrow, there is no forgiveness.
Confessing shows that we understand God is superior to us, that we're to depend on Him, that we're in His hands. It inspires humility. Blessed are the humble. Mathew 5:5 (meek=humble).

So yes, it's relational. It's for reconciliation with God.

Wondering

If confession is necessary for sins as you say how does that tie in with your quote "Our sins are already forgiven? Sorry if I have not got what you are saying.

My wife and do say sorry to each other. We hate upsetting each other. One thing we try to adhere to is not let the sun go down on our anger. She is better at that than I am but I'm learning

 

[Malachi]

If confession is necessary for sins as you say how does that tie in with your quote "Our sins are already forgiven?

It is really quite simple. Our sins are forgiven when we come to Christ for salvation. That is when we repent and are converted so that our sins may be "blotted out" (Acts 3:19).

But after we are saved we do sin, and if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. Therefore self-examination is necessary daily, and confession is necessary when we have sinned, and need to be forgiven at that time. Furthermore, Scripture says that when we come to the Lord's Table, we are also to examine ourselves before partaking of the Lord's Supper.

 

[GodsGrace]

If confession is necessary for sins as you say how does that tie in with your quote "Our sins are already forgiven? Sorry if I have not got what you are saying.

My wife and do say sorry to each other. We hate upsetting each other. One thing we try to adhere to is not let the sun go down on our anger. She is better at that than I am but I'm learning

Wrg
It seemed like you understood "relational" since you used the word.

Jesus died to forgive the sins of all men in all the world of all time, past present and future. As long as His sacrifice is accepted. I'm sure you know this.

See Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption. He bought us back from the dominion of sin, we are now His. Our sins are no longer judged by God.
Did you know that before Jesus' sacrifice no one went to heaven? See Luke 16:19-26
Everyone who died and had faith in God waited to be redeemed in Abraham's Bossom. After Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, these souls (in Luke) were released and went to heaven. NOW we go to heaven directly. We are members of the Body of Christ, we have been forgiven of our SIN, that which kept us away from God since Adam's sin, original sin or the sin nature.

Okay. But we still need to have a good relationship with God. That goes to the relational aspect of the forgiveness of each individual sin we commit after we are born again. Those sins have to be dealt with too because they affect our relationship with God. (and for those other reasons I mentioned in the other post).

Let's say you're a father with a son. Your son steals money out of your wallet. You know he did and you already forgive him. But there's something between you now - holding back a proper father/son relationship. A secret, a hindrance. When your son comes to you and confesses that he took the money and is sorry, you're happy that he confessed, you hug him and the relationship is back on track. You have been reconciled.

Apart from all this, I'd like to say that some things we just do because we've been told to.
We've been told to forgive, to confess, to pray. Why? We don't REALLY know why. Why pray? God already knows of what we have need and what we'll be praying about. But Jesus said to do these things, so that should be reason enough. Just an aside.

Wondering

 

[Malachi]

We've been told to forgive, to confess, to pray. Why? We don't REALLY know why.

If you recalled Jesus said "Blessed are the PURE IN HEART, for they shall see God". In order to maintain purity of heart, these things are a necessity.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you recalled Jesus said "Blessed are the PURE IN HEART, for they shall see God". In order to maintain purity of heart, these things are a necessity.

Very good Malachi.
I like the beatitudes, so just quick:
The pure in heart will see God after physical death, but also now - in all events and circumstances of life because their desire is to please God in their intentions; from here comes acts of love, mercy and justice.
Pharisees showed outside purity. They washed according to the Law and expected to see God - but their heart was corrupt. They were not pure in heart.
In Hebrew Shall See God means to possess God, to enjoy God's happiness (joy) -

Wondering

 

[JohnDB]

Pure in heart is a poetic line in the beatitudes.

It is a double entendre for holy in heart.
Which goes along with single mindedness...bordering on over religious.

Not that you need to "Jesus juke" everyone.
But passionate for God in spirit and truth.

Which means that we accept people for who they are. Of course we understand why they don't do the right things. But that doesn't mean they have license... And respect says that they must atone in some fashion. Heartfelt apologies are a must. Children must learn that "it's not all about them and their feelings" and concern, consideration for others is crucial. We forgive children because we know that they can't do any better. But we expect them to try. A spouse is a bit different. We have an equal partnership with them...."the two become one ". Forgiving ourselves is sometimes difficult. Sometimes too easy too. Depending upon your placement on the Narcissist scale.

Forgiveness is a powerful tool. Properly using it can bring a wealth of love and life to a person. Improper use can ruin others by turning them into self serving idiots.

 

[GodsGrace]

Pure in heart is a poetic line in the beatitudes.

It is a double entendre for holy in heart.
Which goes along with single mindedness...bordering on over religious.

Not that you need to "Jesus juke" everyone.
But passionate for God in spirit and truth.

Which means that we accept people for who they are. Of course we understand why they don't do the right things. But that doesn't mean they have license... And respect says that they must atone in some fashion. Heartfelt apologies are a must. Children must learn that "it's not all about them and their feelings" and concern, consideration for others is crucial. We forgive children because we know that they can't do any better. But we expect them to try. A spouse is a bit different. We have an equal partnership with them...."the two become one ". Forgiving ourselves is sometimes difficult. Sometimes too easy too. Depending upon your placement on the Narcissist scale.

Forgiveness is a powerful tool. Properly using it can bring a wealth of love and life to a person. Improper use can ruin others by turning them into self serving idiots.

Pure in heart. Holy in heart. Good. Holy means to be set aside for service to God. Good.
But what do you mean by your next sentence?
"Which goes along with single mindedness...bordering on over religious."

(seems like you took something good and turned it into something bad)

Wondering

 

[WIP]

As Christians (those of us who have placed our faith in Jesus) do we need to confess our sins (works of the flesh or unbelief) in order to be forgiven?

This question borders on what I see or call the "fear of legalism syndrome." When I hear someone or myself ask a question like this I can't help but wonder why the question? Are we looking for an escape route from doing what is our duty to do?

I think it is important for us to confess our sins to God in particular when we are aware of them. That is one area that I came out of the Catholic church with a feeling of importance. I don't agree with the concept of the requirement to confess my sins to a minister or priest as the RCC teaches as in 1 Timothy 2:5 NKJV we learn, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." The apostle John also reiterates this truth in 1 John 2:1 NKJV "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." But, I do believe confession is an important aspect of a truly Christian lifestyle and we have a responsibility to humble ourselves into confession.

I believe we need to be ever aware of our sins and when we confess them we keep that awareness in front of us. The opposite is the risk that we begin to take our sins for granted and ergo our forgiveness for granted. As Christians we confess that we are followers of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and that we love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Our sins hurt our relationship with Jesus. Is it not fitting then that our sins be a thorn in our side as it were and when we become aware we would then desire to apologize to the love of our life and get right with Him?

I think too often our society today takes God's grace and forgiveness for granted. We live our lives without Him at the forefront of everything we do and we have become complacent with our spiritual lives.

1 John 1:9 NKJV says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Yes but if we read the whole 1st chapter we can recognize that John is speaking about our relationship with God and confession is only a part of it.

James 5:16 NKJV instructs us to, "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." When taken seriously, confession to God or each other is a truly humbling experience and humility is an important aspect of our Christian lives as well. James 4:6 NKJV says, "But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: 'God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.'"

 

[Hospes]

The mindset of God in some sense spiritually "unfriends" us when we sin and then adds us back as a friend upon confession is a snare. (Been there,done that.)

I think in any relationship there can grow a creeping separateness due to hiding. I think confession of sin is our means of not allowing ourselves to hide from God and to end the self-inflicted separateness due to our hiding.

Side note: our being hidden from God is delusional. Nothing is hidden from God.

 

[GodsGrace]

The mindset of God in some sense spiritually "unfriends" us when we sin and then adds us back as a friend upon confession is a snare. (Been there,done that.)

I think in any relationship there can grow a creeping separateness due to hiding. I think confession of sin is our means of not allowing ourselves to hide from God and to end the self-inflicted separateness due to our hiding.

Side note: our being hidden from God is delusional. Nothing is hidden from God.

I think we remain friends of God. How could he "unfriend" us because of sin?
We'd be unfriended forever! I do believe I sin every day - and probably more than once!
Sin does block our relationship with Him in some way. You call it separateness due to our hiding. I see it as a hindrance to move forward. There's a "stain" on the relationship that needs to be removed. Both parties know it's there and it just needs to be brought out into the light. So forgiveness could take place and the relationship could continue, and hopefully, with some growth.

So, yes, the very fact that you feel you must hide (which is delusional) will hinder the relationship.
Proverbs 28:13

Wondering

 

[JohnDB]

Pure in heart. Holy in heart. Good. Holy means to be set aside for service to God. Good.
But what do you mean by your next sentence?
"Which goes along with single mindedness...bordering on over religious."

(seems like you took something good and turned it into something bad)

Wondering

No...not bad just real.
Jesus juking people isn't good.
Dealings with others needs to be done on a level that they can understand and accept. That is truly loving others and isn't religious nonsense created for the purpose of brow beating others.
"Beat thy neighbor with a Bible" is a verse out of 2Paul. Which isn't in our Bibles.

And that is what I was referring to.

 

[GodsGrace]

No...not bad just real.
Jesus juking people isn't good.
Dealings with others needs to be done on a level that they can understand and accept. That is truly loving others and isn't religious nonsense created for the purpose of brow beating others.
"Beat thy neighbor with a Bible" is a verse out of 2Paul. Which isn't in our Bibles.

And that is what I was referring to.

JohnDB
You sent me running to Professor Google.
I don't know what "juke" means!
I've been away a long time I'm afraid.

So here's what I got:

The noun JUKE has 2 senses:

1. a small roadside establishment in the southeastern United States where you can eat and drink and dance to music provided by a jukebox
2. (football) a deceptive move made by a football player

I'm pretty sure it's not number 1. !

I agree with all of your post no. 9 (Is that a song?)

Wondering

 

[for_his_glory]

Confession of sin will help to keep us from the discipline of the Lord. If we fail to confess sin, the discipline of the Lord is sure to come until we do confess it. As stated previously, our sins are forgiven at salvation (positional forgiveness), but our daily fellowship with God needs to stay in good standing (relational forgiveness). Proper fellowship with God cannot happen with unconfessed sin in our lives. Therefore, we need to confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have sinned, in order to maintain close fellowship with God.

http://www.gotquestions.org/confession-forgiveness.html

 

[WIP]

I look at sin similarly to how I look at forgiveness. When I forgive I am released from a burden that separates me from God because I place that burden upon the feet of my Lord. In like manner, when I confess my sins, I am released from a burden that separates me from God because I place that burden upon the feet of my Lord.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Matthew 11:28-30 NKJV

 

[Malachi]

The mindset of God in some sense spiritually "unfriends" us when we sin and then adds us back as a friend upon confession is a snare. (Been there,done that.)

You won't find "unfriends" in Scripture. But you will find a great deal about fellowship with God and how sin in the life of a believer prevents fellowship. It is perfectly true that to maintain ongoing fellowship with God, we must examine our hearts constantly and confess our sins, followed by repentance (or turning away from them). There are also serious consequences when Christians persist in sin.

 

[Hospes]

You won't find "unfriends" in Scripture. But you will find a great deal about fellowship with God and how sin in the life of a believer prevents fellowship. It is perfectly true that to maintain ongoing fellowship with God, we must examine our hearts constantly and confess our sins, followed by repentance (or turning away from them). There are also serious consequences when Christians persist in sin.

Agreed. I was trying to get at how unconfessed sin hurts the relationship. On one hand I fully believe a person reconciled to God walks in newness of life, no longer is enslaved to sin, has died to sin, is alive to God in Christ Jesus, and is clothed in the perfect righteousness of Christ, regardless of unconfessed sin. On the other hand we have plenty of scripture pointing to what you call the serious consequences of sin.

I see Adam and Eve's shame showing "how" our sin breaks relationship: we hide from God. It's an irrational response, but then again sin is not rational. I do not think we fall out of Christ's redemptive work every time we sin and then we get back in via confession. To live under the self-enslavement of believing what Christ accomplished in nailing the debt due to our sin to the cross comes and goes with our confession of sin is to remove a huge part of the good in the Good News.

 

[Christ_empowered]

so, hospes...sort of like how the RCC sets some sins as breaking the believer apart from fellowship until confessed? I'm not saying the RCC is the one true church, but sometimes I think they've got things to teach us Protestants...