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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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forgiveness question
- Thread starter cjhadley
- Start date
S
sherri2
Guest
I think it describes it very well in matt 18:22 -
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Just because someone has sinned against us more then we have sinned against anyone else, does not mean we have the right to not forgive them. Because our ultimate debt to God is beyond anything we can pay, we have to give up our right to not forgive others. And also because God is the only righteous judge and the only one allowed to have the final word.
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Just because someone has sinned against us more then we have sinned against anyone else, does not mean we have the right to not forgive them. Because our ultimate debt to God is beyond anything we can pay, we have to give up our right to not forgive others. And also because God is the only righteous judge and the only one allowed to have the final word.
Mike
Member
I'm reading something in to your question that I don't think others are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're asking if you need to ask other people to forgive you - not if you need to forgive other people. Jesus said the things He said as cited above, but these aren't speaking to "asking other to forgive you".
Phil 2
" <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29388">12</sup>Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29389">13</sup>for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29390">14</sup>Do everything without complaining or arguing, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29391">15</sup>so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29392">16</sup>as you hold out<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href="#fen-NIV-29392c" title="See footnote c">c</a>]">[c]</sup> the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29393">17</sup>But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29394">18</sup>So you too should be glad and rejoice with me."
Hopefully, it is obvious that we don't work out our own salvation in the sense that we are responsible for it. Our salvation is by the Grace of God. But what this seems to imply as it relates to this question, is that we are bound to forgive others for our own sake. They are bound to forgive us for theirs. Each person has to reconcile their response with the Lord. We need to humble ourselves and forgive others. It is virtuous to ask others to forgive us, but I'm not sure it necessary. We make amends with others as best we can, and it's on them to forgive us.
I'm reading something in to your question that I don't think others are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're asking if you need to ask other people to forgive you - not if you need to forgive other people. Jesus said the things He said as cited above, but these aren't speaking to "asking other to forgive you".
Phil 2
" <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29388>12</SUP>Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29389>13</SUP>for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29390>14</SUP>Do everything without complaining or arguing, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29391>15</SUP>so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29392>16</SUP>as you hold out<SUP class=footnote value='[c]'>[c]</SUP> the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29393>17</SUP>But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-29394>18</SUP>So you too should be glad and rejoice with me."
Hopefully, it is obvious that we don't work out our own salvation in the sense that we are responsible for it. Our salvation is by the Grace of God. But what this seems to imply as it relates to this question, is that we are bound to forgive others for our own sake. They are bound to forgive us for theirs. Each person has to reconcile their response with the Lord. We need to humble ourselves and forgive others. It is virtuous to ask others to forgive us, but I'm not sure it necessary. We make amends with others as best we can, and it's on them to forgive us.
You are correct that is what I meant.
handy
Member
I don't think asking others forgiveness is necessary for salvation...but it is necessary.
I think the principle would be found in Matthew 5:23-24 "If therefore you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
This isn't a salvation issue, salvation comes via new life in Christ.
But it is a principle that we as Christians need to follow through on. It certainly interferes with our worship and our relationship with God if we don't ask others for forgiveness and work towards reconciliation when our brother has something against us.
I think the principle would be found in Matthew 5:23-24 "If therefore you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
This isn't a salvation issue, salvation comes via new life in Christ.
But it is a principle that we as Christians need to follow through on. It certainly interferes with our worship and our relationship with God if we don't ask others for forgiveness and work towards reconciliation when our brother has something against us.
T
tumbleweed
Guest
But when you ask god for forgiveness don't you first have to admit your sins in front of someone?