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Forum's Doctrinal Statement in Question

Do you still sin? If you say no, then John calls you a liar.
Does being filled and empowered by the spirit cause you to sin? Of course not.
Paul tells us not to grieve the spirit...

It's not a black and white issue... It's a human issue. While I understand your view, please keep it real, because if you take your idea to a glass tower, you won't know what to think when it shatters.

By His grace & by His help, I am keeping Him real.

The Holy Spirit is not going anywhere when a saved believer sins.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

There is no need to receive Jesus Christ again when a believer sins. All the believer needs to do is confess his sin and He is faithful & just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You are not going to find any where that says... "If a believer sins, he has lost the Holy Ghost or a small portion of the Holy Ghost due to the severity and amount of sin, therefore the elders must come forth and lay hands on him to fill him up again. Catchers are required when he is filled to the top and falls over as a result. It is a sad thing, but God left it up to us to always be filled with the Spirit because we are a leaky vessel. Our corruptible flesh is stronger than Him in us. ~ Judas Iscariot 6:66"

It is not going to be found any where in our Bible and neither should our testimony reflect any part of that.
 
By His grace & by His help, I am keeping Him real.

The Holy Spirit is not going anywhere when a saved believer sins.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

There is no need to receive Jesus Christ again when a believer sins. All the believer needs to do is confess his sin and He is faithful & just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You are not going to find any where that says... "If a believer sins, he has lost the Holy Ghost or a small portion of the Holy Ghost due to the severity and amount of sin, therefore the elders must come forth and lay hands on him to fill him up again. Catchers are required when he is filled to the top and falls over as a result. It is a sad thing, but God left it up to us to always be filled with the Spirit because we are a leaky vessel. Our corruptible flesh is stronger than Him in us. ~ Judas Iscariot 6:66"

It is not going to be found any where in our Bible and neither should our testimony reflect any part of that.
I don't find myself in disagreement with what you just wrote, but how do you get all that from the statement of faith which says,

"We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

Honestly, you have me confused.
 
I don't find myself in disagreement with what you just wrote, but how do you get all that from the statement of faith which says,

"We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

Honestly, you have me confused.

I would not have a problem if they had changed it to...

"We believe that all believers are Spirit-filled at their salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and thus empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

There is a phenomenon out there where saved and already Spirit-filled believers are feeling the "Holy Spirit" come over them, filling them with power as evident with a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation. That is not the Holy Spirit coming over them again & that tongue is not of Him either.
 
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So why the hype to get tongues which never comes with interpretation by receiving the Holy Spirit "again"? This is the falling away from the faith prophesied about.
Really???
The Disciples were filled with the holy Spirit on Pentecost. Acts 2:4
They were filled again at Acts 4:31.

And there is a purpose for tongues other than in the congregation with an interpretation; prayer.
1Co 14:14-15 (RSV) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
Rom 8:26 (NKJV) Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
This is certainly NOT any kind of "falling away."

iakov the fool
 
I would not have a problem if they had changed it to...
"We believe that all believers are Spirit-filled and thus empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."
You realize, I hope, that this is YOUR problem, not the forum's problem, right?
:rocking"You can't always get what you want.
But, if you try real hard, you can get what you need."

iakov the fool
 
Really???
The Disciples were filled with the holy Spirit on Pentecost. Acts 2:4
They were filled again at Acts 4:31.

Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

New believers converted from Judaism. This arrest gave them no time to be water baptized.

This was written by Luke to give account that Peter was speaking by the Holy Spirit in him.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

There was no supernatural infilling again in order for him to do that. There was no shaking of the place or him for that matter. Moving on... to your out of context quote.... because it pertains only to new believers from that reference to "their company" and the people that heard the apostles were the ones that were speaking thus.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

And so the tehy that you read next is pertaining to the new believers that just got done speaking.

31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

This all pertains to new believers since obviously, the apostles were not laying their own possessions at their own feet as they were not the ones living in that area where the new believers find themselves in one accord after receiving the promise of the Spirit at their salvation without water baptism too.

And there is a purpose for tongues other than in the congregation with an interpretation; prayer.
1Co 14:14-15 (RSV) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Out of context again. Paul stated that of he was speaking in tongues, he prays that somebody else will interpret that tongue for he would have understanding since it is unfruitful even to himself until it was.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

That is why Paul was exhorting the gift of prophecy over the gift of tongues because the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift because it needs to come with interpretation to even be fruitful for the tongue speaker.

Rom 8:26 (NKJV) Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
This is certainly NOT any kind of "falling away."

I rely only on the KJV for the actual meat and meaning of His words.

Go to this link:

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

Scroll down to verse 26 and click on the last two Greek words in the Greek text and they should give:

stenagmos = "from stenazw - stenazo 4727; a sigh:--groaning."

alaletos = "from a - a 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative oflalew - laleo 2980; unspeakable:--unutterable, which cannot be uttered."

That means the sighing and the groaning is not being uttered; hence no sound at all.

If we read on to verse 27, we see how the unspeakable intercessions of the Holy Spirit is given to the Father, and that is by ANOTHER knowing the mind of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

This clue to the identity of this "he" is found in scripture even though it should be obvious since it is not the Father presenting intercessions to Himself..

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. KJV

That is why "itself" was used instead of Himself in the KJV, because the Holy Spirit cannot give His intercessions Himself for they are unspeakable. The KJV is not shy in using the pronoun Himself for the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

ALL modern Bibles testify that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself or on His own initiative or on His own authority as He can only speak what He hears. You go ahead and check all your Bible versions and they will tell you that which is why the translators of the modern Bibles goofed in their version of Romans 8:26-27.

God's gift of tongues are for speaking unto the people; the Holy Spirit CANNOT use it as a form of prayer language for uttering His own intercessions because they are unspeakable.

This babbling tongue that never comes with interpretation is promoted by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit "again". It is apostasy. You cannot receive the Holy Spirit "again" when He is already in you by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the falling away from the faith done in hypocrisy when believers say that He is in them, and yet they seek to receive Him again after a sign of tongues which is not by faith in Jesus Christ.
 
You realize, I hope, that this is YOUR problem, not the forum's problem, right?
:rocking"You can't always get what you want.
But, if you try real hard, you can get what you need."

iakov the fool

I amended the statement of faith as it would be clearer like this:

"We believe that all believers are Spirit-filled at their salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and thus empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

If I can amend my statement of faith to make my faith stand further apart from apostasy, they can too.
 
And so the tehy that you read next is pertaining to the new believers that just got done speaking.
WRong.
(NKJV) Act 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 So when they heard that, they (their own companions) raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them, etc. etc. etc.

Act 4:31 And when they (Peter, John and their own companions) had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Who Are those "they"?
They are Peter and John and their companions.
This all pertains to new believers
Wrong. It specifically says it occurred to Peter, John and their companions.
That is why Paul was exhorting the gift of prophecy over the gift of tongues because the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift because it needs to come with interpretation to even be fruitful for the tongue speaker.
True. Bad that's a different topic than what you responded to.
Tongues also has the purpose of being used in private prayer in which case if is fruitful for the person praying. (1Co 14:4a He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,)
I rely only on the KJV for the actual meat and meaning of His words.
That's nice. You might find the meat more digestible in a language that you actually speak.
God's gift of tongues are for speaking unto the people; the Holy Spirit CANNOT use it as a form of prayer language for uttering His own intercessions because they are unspeakable.
More nonsense. We use tongues in prayer to utter what we cannot put into words. That's what "unspeakable" means.
You cannot receive the Holy Spirit "again" when He is already in you by faith in Jesus Christ.
You are conflating "receiving the Holy Spirit" with "being filled with the Holy Spirit." They are not the same.
So when Paul said, "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit," (Eph 5:18 NKJV), the words "be drunk" (μεθύσκεσθε) and "be filled" ( πληροῦσθε) are not once for all time events, just as getting drunk once would not last for the rest of one's life. The verbs are in the middle tense and could be rendered "be getting drunk" and "be being filled."
This babbling tongue
Babbling?
I'm dismayed to see the ease and facility with which people so arrogantly blaspheme the Holy Spirit. :crying :shame
 
WRong.
(NKJV) Act 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 So when they heard that, they (their own companions) raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them, etc. etc. etc.

Inserting your own words in there in that quote below cannot refute my post when "they" are laying things at the apostles' feet in the end. Those are new believers converted from Judaism that had not been water baptized yet in Jesus's name.


Act 4:31 And when they (Peter, John and their own companions) had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Who Are those "they"?
They are Peter and John and their companions.

Wrong. It specifically says it occurred to Peter, John and their companions.

True. Bad that's a different topic than what you responded to.
Tongues also has the purpose of being used in private prayer in which case if is fruitful for the person praying. (1Co 14:4a He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,)

That's nice. You might find the meat more digestible in a language that you actually speak.

More nonsense. We use tongues in prayer to utter what we cannot put into words. That's what "unspeakable" means.

You are conflating "receiving the Holy Spirit" with "being filled with the Holy Spirit." They are not the same.
So when Paul said, "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit," (Eph 5:18 NKJV), the words "be drunk" (μεθύσκεσθε) and "be filled" ( πληροῦσθε) are not once for all time events, just as getting drunk once would not last for the rest of one's life. The verbs are in the middle tense and could be rendered "be getting drunk" and "be being filled."

Babbling?
I'm dismayed to see the ease and facility with which people so arrogantly blaspheme the Holy Spirit. :crying :shame

We agree to disagree because you want to believe that second experience with the "Holy Spirit" by the sign of tongues is of God.
 
I would not have a problem if they had changed it to...

"We believe that all believers are Spirit-filled at their salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and thus empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

There is a phenomenon out there where saved and already Spirit-filled believers are feeling the "Holy Spirit" come over them, filling them with power as evident with a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation. That is not the Holy Spirit coming over them again & that tongue is not of Him either.
Well then, it's not that you disagree then... You simply have an agenda and everything needs to accommodate your doctrine to affirm your right, and they're wrong.

I see a glaring issue with that idea. First, it's driven by a personal agenda and second, it's driven by a personal agenda.

I am not saying your agenda is bad, wrong, or that I'm in disagreement. What I am saying is that it's a really bad idea to parse our words and doctrines to oppose a differing view. All doctrine should reflect an unbiased view of the gospel. That is to say "the good news of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord and Savior"
 
I am not saying your agenda is bad, wrong, or that I'm in disagreement. What I am saying is that it's a really bad idea to parse our words and doctrines to oppose a differing view. All doctrine should reflect an unbiased view of the gospel. That is to say "the good news of the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord and Savior"

Which is better at doing that?

This?

"We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."

Or this?

"We believe that all believers are Spirit-filled at their salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and thus empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."
 
"We believe that all believers are Spirit-filled at their salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and thus empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord."
This amended statement does not accurately reflect what happens at salvation, therefore it is certainly not better. In fact it is misleading. Why? Because there is a difference between receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life, and being "filled with" -- or fully controlled by -- the Holy Spirit (which could be immediate but is frequently after salvation). To be indwelt by the Spirit and to be filled with the Spirit are NOT identical.
 
Well ,I was going to chime in.I was a mod when vic c along with nick wrote that.neither were pentacostals.it's an attempt to keep demonotional differences our.vic is a baptist and nick an Anglican. There was much discussion on being as biblical as possible and allowing the various eschatology views to be shared here.

Sure there bad forms of pentacolism.likewise plenty of hard core baptists.but if you are going to use only kjv as I do. You must realize others won't and have as good translations.the bible was written first in hebrew,aramaic,then greek as a whole in the tanach and greek for the new testament. I have issues with the Greek used as the tanach but it's valid to use the lxx.I prefer the masoretic text .but I also neither speak hebrew nor greek.
 
Dear Brethren ChristDependent and Cygnus, I will certainly not argue your experience and knowledge of scripture concerning the Holy Spirit. I'll give my testimony.

As a teacher in a Baptist Church I didn't believe any doctrines referring to being filled, and/or receiving the Holy Spirit as something subsequent to my initial birth in Christ. I also believed certain gifts were done away after the Church was established prior to the coming of Jesus.

1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (I did have a problem with knowledge, but having not received the remaining gifts it was easy to omit them for me.).

One day a student asked me about receiving the Holy Spirit manifested by speaking in tongues because she had visited another church with a friend where they preached that, and she saw examples of it. I told her my beliefs of not believing that, but as time went on the subject was brought up again and again by different ones of the class. With permission of the church I packed up the class and visited an assembly where they preached that. I believe there were thirteen of us including my children and wife. Long story short we prayed with others after the evening service, and me and all the remainder of the class except the initial one that brought it up were praying and speaking in tongues. Could I continue the fight against such evidence? No, and I didn't. What did it do for me? I am able to see and understand things formally past my belief in scripture, and I certainly do consider it a part of my growth in grace and knowledge of my LORD Jesus. Do I consider others not having these things not saved? NO! not at all, and I do think as God's work in progress He takes us as far as we will allow Him to.

We have among us a very special friend and brother in the Lord by the name of Chopper. He was a Baptist Preacher that has also come to have received the Holy Spirit, he is a Christian Psychologist, and very intelligent man in these phenomena of the Holy Spirit. I hope he is able to give you his testimony here.
Blessings in Christ Jesus. :wave2

I don't doubt it. You received the Holy Spirit when you were regenerated...and filled when you spoke in tongues. (if the tongues were real)
 
In the O.T., the Spirit infilling is temporary as it was for the disciples when Jesus was on earth with them.

In the Book of Acts, any references to an already saved disciple about "filled with the Spirit" is Luke testifying that the disciples were led by the Spirit in doing a certain action or in speaking so that the readers know from those historical accounts in Acts that they were not operating under their own flesh or speaking of their own words when these accounts were being given.

How else can Luke testify how these disciples/apostles served Him in the early church?

But there is no supernatural continual filling of the Spirit for an already filled believer to serve Him or to follow Him, because by His promise, we are filled with the Spirit all the time as a testimony that He has saved us. The Holy Spirit manifests in an already filled believer. The Spirit does not need to manifest a sensation of filling the believer again in order for the Spirit to speak through him or to lead him to do something. All such sensations of another filling is an apostasy warned about for believers to not believe when it happens to them and shun it as not of Him at all.

I suppose you're entitled to your opinion.

As I said, when you are saved you receive the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit moves in you...you can be considered as filled with the Spirit.
I trust you understand the difference.
 
WRong.
(NKJV) Act 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 So when they heard that, they (their own companions) raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them, etc. etc. etc.

Act 4:31 And when they (Peter, John and their own companions) had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Who Are those "they"?
They are Peter and John and their companions.

Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

5,000 New believers in Christ converted from Judaism. No water baptism yet because Peter & John got arrested. They were interrupted in the conversion of these new believers from Judaism.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.

Peter & John made a report to them.

Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Peter & John were not lifting their voices up with "them" when "they" just got through hearing Peter & John and it is that "they" that are lifting up their voices from what they had heard from Peter & John.

This was the new believers' prayer request after hearing Peter's & John's report.

Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

That was when the new believers converted from Judaism were born again without water baptism.

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

This only pertains to new believers that lived in that area.

Next verse says that the new believers gave witness to the apostles; hence Peter & John of what the new believers believed of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Next, still talking about the 5,000 new believers that lived in the area with their possessions.

Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

The new believers, which cannot include Peter & John, because Peter & John are the apostles that they laid these possessions at their feet.

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

That is how & why I do not see Peter & John included in this filling of the Holy Spirit on the new believers.
 
Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

5,000 New believers in Christ converted from Judaism. No water baptism yet because Peter & John got arrested. They were interrupted in the conversion of these new believers from Judaism.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.

Peter & John made a report to them.

Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Peter & John were not lifting their voices up with "them" when "they" just got through hearing Peter & John and it is that "they" that are lifting up their voices from what they had heard from Peter & John.

This was the new believers' prayer request after hearing Peter's & John's report.

Acts 4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

That was when the new believers converted from Judaism were born again without water baptism.

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

This only pertains to new believers that lived in that area.

Next verse says that the new believers gave witness to the apostles; hence Peter & John of what the new believers believed of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Next, still talking about the 5,000 new believers that lived in the area with their possessions.

Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

The new believers, which cannot include Peter & John, because Peter & John are the apostles that they laid these possessions at their feet.

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

That is how & why I do not see Peter & John included in this filling of the Holy Spirit on the new believers.

I am filled with the Holy Spirit right now and I am saddened that you feel a need to argue with everyone about this instead of working to bring everyone together in unity with Christ Jesus.
 
Dear Brethren ChristDependent and Cygnus, I will certainly not argue your experience and knowledge of scripture concerning the Holy Spirit. I'll give my testimony.

As a teacher in a Baptist Church I didn't believe any doctrines referring to being filled, and/or receiving the Holy Spirit as something subsequent to my initial birth in Christ. I also believed certain gifts were done away after the Church was established prior to the coming of Jesus.

1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. (I did have a problem with knowledge, but having not received the remaining gifts it was easy to omit them for me.).

One day a student asked me about receiving the Holy Spirit manifested by speaking in tongues because she had visited another church with a friend where they preached that, and she saw examples of it. I told her my beliefs of not believing that, but as time went on the subject was brought up again and again by different ones of the class. With permission of the church I packed up the class and visited an assembly where they preached that. I believe there were thirteen of us including my children and wife. Long story short we prayed with others after the evening service, and me and all the remainder of the class except the initial one that brought it up were praying and speaking in tongues. Could I continue the fight against such evidence? No, and I didn't. What did it do for me? I am able to see and understand things formally past my belief in scripture, and I certainly do consider it a part of my growth in grace and knowledge of my LORD Jesus. Do I consider others not having these things not saved? NO! not at all, and I do think as God's work in progress He takes us as far as we will allow Him to.

We have among us a very special friend and brother in the Lord by the name of Chopper. He was a Baptist Preacher that has also come to have received the Holy Spirit, he is a Christian Psychologist, and very intelligent man in these phenomena of the Holy Spirit. I hope he is able to give you his testimony here.
Blessings in Christ Jesus. :wave2

Thank you so very much for those very kind and gracious words my wonderful friend Eugene. I know of no one else who has the great testimony of being such a faithful and knowledgeable Servant of our most High God Elohim.

Like you, I had been a Baptist Pastor and Christian Psychologist in three Baptist Churches. I had to retire from the full time pastorate because of my Wife who was dying of cancer. After three cancer operations and chemo we went to Florida from Maine during the Winter months so she could spend some time out door recovering from her operations.

I had like you Eugene taught against a second blessing of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because that's what Baptist doctrine is. Once out of being a Pastor/Teacher, I was, I guess, more open to God's moving in my heart. A very close Missionary friend of mine tried several times to "baptize" me but failed probably because of my reluctance.

I had decided to go back to the business world of which I was very familiar after owning several businesses before being saved and going to Bible College. I was reluctant to go back into the pastorate because of the trials that many people pose to a Pastor who preaches the whole counsel of God.

One day, I was out for my morning walk and I said to the Lord Jesus, "I surrender my life to You. What ever you want I will do and go. All of a sudden, a tremendous glow started in my guts and went all thru my body, I started to cry and then laugh, cry and laugh for four straight days....O my friends, without any human intervention, God Himself Baptized me into His Holy Spirit.

All the gifts became apparent to me in the weeks to come except tongues. About almost a year later, I was singing to a Christian song on the radio in my shop and suddenly was singing in tongues. I have never spoken in tongues in public, I have prayed in tongues. All these supernatural events from God has revived my soul and I've been a different servant ever since.

I want to give all the glory to our Wonderful Savior Jesus the Son of God. Like the Apostle Paul, I taught false doctrine in those three Baptist Churches but I did it in ignorance, and Jesus forgave me. I went on in the full power of the Holy Spirit to lead many to Christ for Salvation, heal the sick a few times and other wonderful acts prompted by the Spirit of God.

All Glory to the God of Whom I serve.
 
Wow, what a good thread that sprouted from an uh, unexpected question. Lots of good info here!

It's lightly amusing that the mods were put on the spot and had no ready answer 1 Peter 3:15

:lol
 
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