Mary’s mediatrix in Jn 2

[Who Me]

Do we believe the scripture alone? Or also the church Christ established and commanded to teach all men? Matt 28:19

We obey scripture. Man's instructions, teachings etc we follow if they complie with scripture.

 

[donadams]

We obey scripture. Man's instructions, teachings etc we follow if they complie with scripture.

The authority of the apostolic church came first!

The apostolic church exercised authority and teaching before scripture.

The apostolic church does not require scripture to know the truth being taught by Christ in person three years!

The New Testament is the witness of the church to Christ! Acts 1:8

The church wrote the New Testament, the church says what constitutes scripture and the church alone promotes the authentic meaning of scripture!

Thks

 

[Who Me]

The authority of the apostolic church came first!

Sorry historically inaccurate. The bible was in use long before the rcc was formed.
And as a man made structure does not have authority to dictate to Christians.

 

[donadams]

Sorry historically inaccurate. The bible was in use long before the rcc was formed.
And as a man made structure does not have authority to dictate to Christians.

The church was founded by Christ on peter in matt 16:18

Matt 28:19 commanded to teach
Acts 1:8 Witnesses

New testament would not be written for 30 Plus years and not a canon till 381-2 by the authority of the pope, apostolic church in union with Christ matt 28:20
Jn 15:5. Thks

 

[donadams]

Christ is the light! (Truth)
Jn 8:12

The church he founded is also the light as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 5:14

Christ is the teacher!
Heb 1:1-3

The church He founded is also our teacher as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 18:17

Christ is the truth!
Jn 14:6

The church He founded is also the pillar of truth as an extension and command of Christ! 1 tim 3:15

 

[Who Me]

The church was founded by Christ on peter in matt 16:18

That is rcc propaganda. Look at Acts and Paul's letters. He argues and rebuked Peter and meets with the church leaders plural.
There is no biblical mention of Peter having a higher role than the other apostles.

Equally the sordid history of the papacy, it's concentration on political power rather than on spiritual issues leaves little reason to have any faith in it.

 

[donadams]

That is rcc propaganda. Look at Acts and Paul's letters. He argues and rebuked Peter and meets with the church leaders plural.
There is no biblical mention of Peter having a higher role than the other apostles.

Equally the sordid history of the papacy, it's concentration on political power rather than on spiritual issues leaves little reason to have any faith in it.

Who’s the apostle over your church, what apostle do you submit to? Hen 13:7-17

St. Ignatius apostolic father, bishop of Antioch, taught by the apostles said: no Consecrated bishop / no ordained priest then no church!

Any apostles has authority in matters of discipline to oppose another apostle

Thks

The church is eternal! Lk 1;32-33

 

[Who Me]

Who’s the apostle over your church, what apostle do you submit to? Hen 13:7-17

St. Ignatius apostolic father, bishop of Antioch, taught by the apostles said: no Consecrated bishop / no ordained priest then no church!

Any apostles has authority in matters of discipline to oppose another apostle

Thks

The church is eternal! Lk 1;32-33

Hen 13? What biblical book is that.

The church I attend is lead by a committee of elders, we follow the basic protestant theology declared an abomination by the council of trent

Yes the church, that gathering of living and dead believers from every denomination is an eternal church ruled over by Jesus.

There is no divinely appointed organisation.

 

[donadams]

Sorry heb13:7-17

Hebrews

 

[donadams]

Hen 13? What biblical book is that.

The church I attend is lead by a committee of elders, we follow the basic protestant theology declared an abomination by the council of trent

Yes the church, that gathering of living and dead believers from every denomination is an eternal church ruled over by Jesus.

There is no divinely appointed organisation.

Yes the truth and the church are of divine origin and the church has hierarchy and jurisdictional authority

The as a group of believers is an invention of the heretic Wycliffe not the apostolic and universal church founded by Christ on peter!

Thks

 

[Who Me]

Yes the truth and the church are of divine origin and the church has hierarchy and jurisdictional authority

The as a group of believers is an invention of the heretic Wycliffe not the apostolic and universal church founded by Christ on peter!

Thks

Standard rcc response.

If one reads Acts we see Paul charging around Asia minor setting up churches without any laying on of hands from Peter.
Yes he confirmed that what he preached was what they preached and he confirmed this with Peter and James.
The Jerusalem council gave orders to Paul's churches, the council not Peter.

The rcc is as much a man made organisation as any other church.

 

[donadams]

Standard rcc response.

If one reads Acts we see Paul charging around Asia minor setting up churches without any laying on of hands from Peter.
Yes he confirmed that what he preached was what they preached and he confirmed this with Peter and James.
The Jerusalem council gave orders to Paul's churches, the council not Peter.

The rcc is as much a man made organisation as any other church.

The pope always appoints a bishop to oversee the council so when it’s complete the pope can approve or disapprove its decree’s

Thks

 

[Who Me]

The pope always appoints a bishop to oversee the council so when it’s complete the pope can approve or disapprove its decree’s

Thks

What has this to do with Paul's setting up of churches etc.

 

[donadams]

What has this to do with Paul's setting up of churches etc.

You refered to the council in acts 15

 

[Who Me]

You refered to the council in acts 15

There was no pope in Acts 15.

 

[donadams]

There was no pope in Acts 15.

Peter was made pope in matt 16:18-19 and it does reference it in acts 15

Peter stands up
Sign of His authority
And it says God (Jesus Christ) made choice among the apostles

Thks

 

[Who Me]

Peter was made pope in matt 16:18-19 and it does reference it in acts 15

Peter stands up
Sign of His authority
And it says God (Jesus Christ) made choice among the apostles

Thks

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

And what is the rock but Peter statement of faith.
Christianity is built on that not on the alternative name of Simon.
The keys are the authority that teachers of the law had, symbols of there ability to open up God's word and to bind followers to obey it.

Acts 15 Peter stood to tell of his experience of reaching gentile, and James made the decision about what instructions to send to them.

 

[donadams]

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

And what is the rock but Peter statement of faith.
Christianity is built on that not on the alternative name of Simon.
The keys are the authority that teachers of the law had, symbols of there ability to open up God's word and to bind followers to obey it.

Acts 15 Peter stood to tell of his experience of reaching gentile, and James made the decision about what instructions to send to them.

No reason to give the person of Peter the keys of the kingdom, “Thee outward sign” of jurisdictional authority if not to govern and administer the kingdom until Christ returns in glory! Matt 16;18-19

To be the chief pastor and teacher of the faithful!

Matt 16:17-19
Why is Peter even mentioned?
Why does Jesus change His name?
Why does Jesus say Peter is blessed?

Christ establishes Peter in office:
God changed the patriarchs names to indicate an office or mission. Isa 22:21-22

Why does Jesus give Peter the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority)

Why does Jesus give Peter power to bind and loose? Matt 16:18-19
Peter and the apostles posses Christ’s authority in the church. Matt 28:18-20

Peter standing up signifies authority in the church. Acts 1:15 & 15:7

Peter’s person is blessed not peters confession of faith!
Peter’s person received the keys not a confession of faith!

Office of authority as personal representative of Christ and head of the church on earth.

God always establishes peace and order in his kingdom by obedience to the fathers in hierarchical authority!

Do Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, in acts 5 believe it is a confession of faith that has authority or peter?

Cos there both dead by peter’s authority!

Matt 16:17
Jesus declares Peter’s person not confession to be blessed!

Does Christ gives the keys to Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?

Does Christ give the power to bind and loose to Peter’s person or to a confession?

Did the Father send Christ or a confession of Christ?

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ!

Christ sends Peter not his confession!

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone, and instructed peter to minister to the other apostles

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies only peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27
(And allows peter to act as mediator with the Pharisees)

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

thanks

 

[Who Me]

So you and the rcc cla8m. But you could make an equally good case for James who took the lead in that meeting in Acts or for Saul renamed Paul.

If anything the case made by the orthodox church for there various patriarchs is better than the case for a pontus maximus.

 

[donadams]

Anyone who is in Christ is a priest.

Because you are in Christ doesn’t mean you are the one Mediator.

"one mediator"

context context context!

whole council of God!

1 tim 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

prayer and intercession do not violate the one mediator!

1 tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Paul's ministry does not violate the one mediator!

the one mediator has to do with the redemption accomplished by Jesus Christ "the one mediator"!
key verse 1 tim 2:6